Teachings of Zane Hodges.

[akrahnert]

akrahnert I believe you have it correct, but I would change one thing is that works are not an evidence of our past salvation. There is no evidence of this. We either are or we are not.

You could say that works eminating out of faith is evidence that we will be saved in the future as I or II Peter says at the end of our faith.

Other than that I would say you are right on the button as far as I can tell.

GALATIANS 5:16-25

[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

I would think that these verses show us that;

1. If we are saved we shall have the Spirit, and will walk in the Spirit.
2. We shall manifest fruit, or the work that the Spirit produces in us, enabling us to do the things God requires of us, i.e Soul winning, caring for the sick and poor, tithing with a cheerful heart etc.
3. This is also evidence of salvation, and sanctification. That we truly have saving faith, and God is working in our hearts(Sanctification), seperating us sin, with outward evidence.

It would also be a blessing that these things should be an outward manifestation, as it would provide an indication for our brethern that someone is in either a backslidden condition, or is not yet saved.
Then we are able either to help our backslidden brethern, or give the Gospel to the one whom is not yet come to Christ.

Brother Jump, this is all I can give for scripture, as my time is limited. I will include more. God Bless

 

[Lacy Evans]

I would think that these verses show us that;

1. If we are saved we shall have the Spirit, and will walk in the Spirit.
2. We shall manifest fruit, or the work that the Spirit produces in us, enabling us to do the things God requires of us, i.e Soul winning, caring for the sick and poor, tithing with a cheerful heart etc.
3. This is also evidence of salvation, and sanctification. That we truly have saving faith, and God is working in our hearts(Sanctification), seperating us sin, with outward evidence.

It would also be a blessing that these things should be an outward manifestation, as it would provide an indication for our brethern that someone is in either a backslidden condition, or is not yet saved.
Then we are able either to help our backslidden brethern, or give the Gospel to the one whom is not yet come to Christ.

Brother Jump, this is all I can give for scripture, as my time is limited. I will include more. God Bless

It is a command (with promises and warnings) to "walk in the spirit", not a declaration that we will automatically do it.

The verse shows us:
1. If we are saved we should have the Spirit, and should walk in the Spirit.
2. We should manifest fruit, or the work that the Spirit produces in us, enabling us to do the things God requires of us, i.e Soul winning, caring for the sick and poor, tithing with a cheerful heart etc.
3. This should be also evidence of salvation, and sanctification. That we have saving faith, and the Holy Spirit empowers and enables us to be separated from sin, with outward evidence.


Lacy

 

[James_Newman]

and there ya go, akranert. They ignore the Scripture that proves they are wrong when they say the Body of Christ is divided during the Millenial Reign.

This seems a really weak argument, brother, but I'll entertain it.

1 Corinthians 1:12-13
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Are you going to show me where every Christian throughout the ages appeared in Corinth at this time? No? Then I guess the body of Christ was divided and Paul was wrong? Or maybe it is not talking about the physical gathering together of all believers in one place.

1 Corinthians 1:10
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Come to think of it, translating "aionios" as "eternal" is a Catholic tradition. It never meant eternal, and it still doesn't. Therefore, using Linda's logic, she's a heretic!

On the contrary, eternal (aionios) does not mean age lasting as you imply. It means without end.

Jesus said in John 3:15:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Have, a present tense word.

John wrote in 1 John 5:11,12:

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

God has given to us eternal life.

In John 11:26, Jesus told Martha the sister of Lazarus:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

To believe in Jesus means to have eternal life. A life that will never end.

It is those who say eternal means only for a length of time that will eventually end that are the true heretics.

 

[J. Jump]

Actually which ever way you believe eternal seems to be a very poor translation at best, becuase we have a spiritual birthday, which means our life is not eternal (which does not mean without end, it means without BEGINNING or end).

We have a distinct beginning as we are born by the Spirit. So we have everlasting life (which means unending).

But again we have a Scripture that is plucked out and made to fit a certain theology regardless of context.

In John 11:26, Jesus told Martha the sister of Lazarus:
Quote:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Jesus asked this of an already "saved" individual. So why would He ask a saved invidiual if she believes this? That makes no sense.
It's because spiritual salvation is not in view here. If you live (true spiritual life) and you are a believer (presently and continually) in me (Jesus came as the Messiah - so if she believed in Him as the King [nothing there about being her substitute or shedding His blood] then she shall never die.
The same can be said of believers today. And if you are alive (spiritually alive) and you are a believer (presently and continually) in Christ (the Messiah) then you shall never die.
However if you don't believe that then you will perish (die). The Bible says if we save our life (soul) now then we will lose it (perish) in the age to come. But if we will die (perish) to self (lose our life [soul]) now we will find life in the age to come (this is the aionios life - life for the coming age).

 

[Hope of Glory]

In John 11:26, Jesus told Martha the sister of Lazarus:
Quote:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Jesus asked this of an already "saved" individual. So why would He ask a saved invidiual if she believes this? That makes no sense.

Not only that, but in John 11:26, "believe" is a present, active, participle (used as a noun; if this is required to be saved, there are contradictions in the Scriptures), but it also says that "whosever is believing will not die into the age".

"Aion" is a noun that means, a period of time of significant character, an era, an age.

I looked this verse up in some commentaries, and most of them say, "'Into the age' obviously means 'forever'". So, to say that this is "forever" is interpretation, and not translation, so to use it as "proof" is faulty in itself.

So, you have to ask yourself, "Do I believe that the Bible means what it says, or do I have to change it?"

"Believe", when used as a present, active, participle, is synonymous with "faith". We are saved by "believe", but we are to live by "faith" [works]. What happens if we don't live by faith?

 

[Hope of Glory]

On the contrary, eternal (aionios) does not mean age lasting as you imply. It means without end.

Try looking it up in a Greek lexicon that is based on the Greek language. It means "age lasting" or "age abiding". Then, many commentators (and reference books written by theologians) add that "it obviously means 'forever'".

So, you can argue that it means "forever" if you want, but the word itself does not. Greek does have a word for "eternal" (without beginning or ending or existing outside of time) and it's used twice in the NT. They also have an expression that means "forever", and it's used in several places. However, "aionios", as a word, does not and cannot mean "eternal"; that's interpretation instead of translation.

So, why would the Holy Spirit be ambiguous and tricky and use a faulty word?

Jesus said in John 3:15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

"Whosever". "Whosever" is an adjective and it's describing someone. Who is it describing? Everyone who is doing something. Doing what?

"Believeth". Everyone who is believing, in the present tense. Any time you see a work in the KJV ending in "th", it's in the present tense. In this case, "believe" is a present, active, participle. Acts 16:31 tells us that we are saved by "believe" in the aorist. The aorist cannot be stopped; it's punctiliar. The present tense can be stopped. What happens when you quit believing? Do you lose your spiritual salvation?

Everyone who is believing what? In him.

Everyone who is believing in him what? "May be having". It's subjunctive. Does that mean that some who are believing may not be having? Yes, it does. Why? Because they might stop believing.

May be having what? May be having "life" "aionian".

So, those who are believing may or may not be having this life. So, what is "life aionian"?

BTW, "Should not perish" is not in most manuscripts, but it just supports what I am saying. It was added into a marginal note, and at some point of copying was inserted into the text. It's "apollumi", and it's also subjunctive. "Whosever is believing" may or may not perish.

In order to perish, or lose your life, you must first have your life. How do you lose something that you don't have? The woman who lost (apollumi) the coin had to have the coin in order to lose it, didn't she? Or does the Bible really mean that she searched until she found a coin that she never had?

It is those who say eternal means only for a length of time that will eventually end that are the true heretics.

Oooh, ooh! I got it!

It is those who say that an age means eternal who are true heretics.

There, that "proves" that you're wrong! (Now, should I question your salvation as well, or are you going to save that for another arguement?)

 

[Allan]

actually it does mean age lasting in the eternal sense.

The Eternal you (Hopeofglory) spoke of being without beginning and end is not what was being conveyed toward man having eternal life.

This eternal has no end but DOES however have a beginning and therefore is IN time and not seperate from it. So age lasting or from a point onward without end still falls into the catagory of Eternal due to the fact it is a condition that is causal and identifed with God who is Eternal. I think a better term that could be used would be forever (denoting a beginning point onward) but that would not adiquately show its identity with God so Eternal is still a wise word to use.

 

[Hope of Glory]

"age-lasting" has a beginning and an ending.

The Greek has an expressing for "everlasting" (without ending); it's εις τοὺς αιωνας των αιώνων or literally “from the ages unto the ages”. (I must note here that those who believe in universal reconciliation get this idea from this phrase; it is a standard Greek idiom that means “everlasting”, but they take the literal “ages unto ages”, which is possible, but I don't think the context will permit that; if that were the intent, then I think the "ages" would have been used, so as to not be ambiguous.) Below is every example of “everlasting”; please note that Revelation 14:11 does not contain the definite article, so it is simply “ages of ages”, which probably simply means a long time.

Gal 1.5
Eph 3.21
Phl 4.20
1Tm 1.17
2Tm 4.18
Rev 1.6
Rev 1.18
Rev 4.9
Rev 4.10
Rev 10.6
Rev 11.15
Rev 14.11 (no definite article)
Rev 15.7
Rev 19.3
Rev 20.10
Rev 22.5