Teens at Work - Walmart

[Rufus_1611]

Yet another example of Wal-Mart exploitation...

Teens at Work

By Joseph Contreras

July 31, 2007 - Wal-Mart prides itself on cutting costs at home and abroad, and its Mexican operations are no exception. That approach has helped the Arkansas-based retail giant set a track record of spectacular success in the 16 years since it entered Mexico as a partner of the country’s then-leading retail-store chain. But some of the company’s practices have aroused concern among some officials and nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) that Wal-Mart is taking advantage of local customs to pinch pennies at a time when its Mexican operations have never been more profitable.

Wal-Mart is Mexico’s largest private-sector employer in the nation today, with nearly 150,000 local residents on its payroll. An additional 19,000 youngsters between the ages of 14 and 16 work after school in hundreds of Wal-Mart stores, mostly as grocery baggers, throughout Mexico—and none of them receives a red cent in wages or fringe benefits. The company doesn’t try to conceal this practice: its 62 Superama supermarkets display blue signs with white letters that tell shoppers: OUR VOLUNTEER PACKERS COLLECT NO SALARY, ONLY THE GRATUITY THAT YOU GIVE THEM. SUPERAMA THANKS YOU FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING.
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[emphasis mine]

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I wonder how many waitreses know they're being exploited. How about paper routes ? I never made anything close to minimum wage humpin' papers around town, but that first ten-speed bike I got after saving money all summer was suhweeeeeeeeeet !

Much ado about nothing.

Do they kidnap the children, and force them to bag ?

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Why would anyone have a problem with this or even a 14 year old working? Violations of child labor laws listed were :

1. Running a forklift. What is it about this that should be illegal?

2. Running a chainsaw. Why would Wal-Mart employess of any age need to run a chain saw? And just what is the problem with a teenager runing a chainsaw?


This appears to be more propaganda to destroy big business. Such agandas reduce the credibility of accusations. And these accusations are just silly.

 

[Rufus_1611]

I wonder how many waitreses know they're being exploited. How about paper routes ? I never made anything close to minimum wage humpin' papers around town, but that first ten-speed bike I got after saving money all summer was suhweeeeeeeeeet !

Much ado about nothing.

Do they kidnap the children, and force them to bag ?

Waitresses still get paid. When you were humpin papers around town did you volunteer in the hopes that someone would tip you or did the newspaper companies pay you for your services? The children are certainly not kidnapped or forced to bag, they're just hungry and while Wal-Mart in Mexico is making net earnings of $1.148 billion in 2006 and $280 million in profits in the second quarter of '07, they can't even find it in their cold hearts to pay their "volunteers" for doing their work for 'em.

"He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want." - Proverbs 22:6​

 

[Bro. Williams]

My step-father has worked for Wal-Mart for years, the only negative comment that I would like to make is that, even though he is in management and has often moved the many times that were required for him to move up... he will still have to work until he is around 70+ before he can retire...

IOW, I will likely retire before he will.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Umm.. Apparently you need to read the article better. It is against child labor laws to hire these children according to the UN.

From the article

Article 2 of the ILO’s Convention 138 specifically prohibits the employment of 14-year-old children.

You also failed to acknowledge the part of the article that shows there is an agreement made by walmart and Mexican officials that is being followed here.

Fropm the article:

And in its defense, Wal-Mart says it fully complies with a 1999 agreement covering the teenaged baggers that the Mexico City municipal government negotiated with the Supermarkets and Department Stores Association of Mexico.

Walmarts hands are tied and yet they are still providing a way to let these children earn money in spite of opposition from UN child labor laws.

From the article:
Wal-Mart says the bagger program was designed “in accordance with the International Labor Organization’s (ILO) guidelines.”

Not only have they found a way to provide income for these teens in the face of opposition, they provide other benefits for them as well.

From the Article:

The company also says it goes beyond the obligations of that accord, awarding bonuses twice a year to baggers who maintain high grades in school and also providing accident insurance that covers the kids not only when they are on duty, but also when they are en route between home and workplace. The company’s written statement cited a study conducted by the Mexican government and a U.N. agency that found that teenagers participating in the baggers’ program were less likely to use illegal drugs than peers who panhandled or hawked merchandise on city streets.

So what have we learned from the article:

1. Wal-Mart has gone out of its way to find an avenue of income for teenagers that has been effective in providing income, removes some of the percieved need for dealing drugs and panhandling, and encourages schooling and good grades.

2. Wal-Mart is acting in accordance with Child labor laws set by the UN which is enforced in Mexico.

3. It is illegal for teenagers to be employed by companies in Mexico.

4. And finally this article is propoganda against big business.

 

[Analgesic]

1. Wal-Mart has gone out of its way to get access to a child labor force it does not have to pay.

2. Wal-Mart's prices are therefore lower than they would be otherwise, since the costs of their labor have not been included. Wal-Mart sells more.

3. The financial risk is placed entirely on the children.

4. We wouldn't need propaganda against big business if there wasn't so much propaganda for it.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

1. Wal-Mart has gone out of its way to get access to a child labor force it does not have to pay.

So is it your position that these teens should not be working considering the child labor alws in Mexico?

2. Wal-Mart's prices are therefore lower than they would be otherwise, since the costs of their labor have not been included. Wal-Mart sells more.

Why is this a problem?

3. The financial risk is placed entirely on the children.

Considering thes teens would not otherwise recieve any income in the face of the Mexican child Labor laws what would your remedy be?

4. We wouldn't need propaganda against big business if there wasn't so much propaganda for it.

Is it your position that the article is without its bias and completely correct?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Waitresses still get paid. When you were humpin papers around town did you volunteer in the hopes that someone would tip you or did the newspaper companies pay you for your services? The children are certainly not kidnapped or forced to bag, they're just hungry and while Wal-Mart in Mexico is making net earnings of $1.148 billion in 2006 and $280 million in profits in the second quarter of '07, they can't even find it in their cold hearts to pay their "volunteers" for doing their work for 'em.

"He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want." - Proverbs 22:6​

Have you ever looked at wal-Mart's charitable donations ? Look them up. That bible verse does not apply to them.

 

[Analgesic]

So is it your position that these teens should not be working considering the child labor alws in Mexico?

Nope, I have no problem with them working. I just strongly object to any suggestion that Wal-Mart is benevolently working to provide jobs for the kids. They're there to make money, anything else is a PR bonus.

Why is this a problem?

Exploitation. Wal-Mart is taking advantage of the kids poverty to make more money.

Considering thes teens would not otherwise recieve any income in the face of the Mexican child Labor laws what would your remedy be?

A mandatory tip added to the bill for purchases over $10 would be an excellent start.

Is it your position that the article is without its bias and completely correct?

I have no position on the subject, though I highly doubt that could be said about very many articles these days.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Nope, I have no problem with them working. I just strongly object to any suggestion that Wal-Mart is benevolently working to provide jobs for the kids. They're there to make money, anything else is a PR bonus.

What is your evidence for such a claim?

Exploitation. Wal-Mart is taking advantage of the kids poverty to make more money.

What would be your remedy for the income of the teens if Wal-Mart only hired baggers, which would require older workers?

A mandatory tip added to the bill for purchases over $10 would be an excellent start.

If Wal-Mart handed out the mandatory tip then wouldnt that be considered employment. The volunteer bagger program works because Wal-mart is not directly involved paying out the baggers. that is between the bagger and the grocery buyer.

 

[Analgesic]

What is your evidence for such a claim?

Their refusal to hire union employees and constant squeezing of suppliers would be an excellent place to start. Both of those practices hurt workers while improving Wal-Mart's bottom line.

What would be your remedy for the income of the teens if Wal-Mart only hired baggers, which would require older workers?

Again, I have no problem with the teens working. I don't want to force them out of their job.

If Wal-Mart handed out the mandatory tip then wouldnt that be considered employment. The volunteer bagger program works because Wal-mart is not directly involved paying out the baggers. that is between the bagger and the grocery buyer.

I don't see how ensuring that someone is payed by a third party would constitute employment. If anything, Wal-Mart would be working for the kid.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Their refusal to hire union employees and constant squeezing of suppliers would be an excellent place to start. Both of those practices hurt workers while improving Wal-Mart's bottom line.

How are they hurt?

Again, I have no problem with the teens working. I don't want to force them out of their job.

I don't see how ensuring that someone is payed by a third party would constitute employment. If anything, Wal-Mart would be working for the kid.

If it goes through the hands of Wal-Mart or if it enforced by Wal-Mart then Wal-Mart becomes directly responsible. In this case it is apparent that they are trying to provide a need to the community and work within the laws.

It is a fallacy that a company that works to keep its overhead down so that it can sell its product cheaper is incapable of doing something without alterior motives.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Have you ever looked at wal-Mart's charitable donations ? Look them up. That bible verse does not apply to them.

Is this a good assessment?
Wal-Mart Charity Evaluated

 

[Analgesic]

How are they hurt?

Unions give employees leverage to earn better wages and benefits. You can take a quick look at Wal-Mart's purchasing policies here.

If it goes through the hands of Wal-Mart or if it enforced by Wal-Mart then Wal-Mart becomes directly responsible.

Proof?

In this case it is apparent that they are trying to provide a need to the community and work within the laws.

No, it is apparent that they are working within the laws to hire 14 year olds. It is not apparent that they're trying to fill a need in the community, that's your presumption.

It is a fallacy that a company that works to keep its overhead down so that it can sell its product cheaper is incapable of doing something without alterior motives.

Indeed, but I never said they were incapable of doing something without ulterior motives -- I simply rejected your implication that they were benevolently motivated in any sense beyond their bottom line.

 

[StefanM]

At the local air force base, though they don't use children, the commissary uses baggers who depend solely on tips, receiving no pay from the base.

That's the government at work!

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Unions give employees leverage to earn better wages and benefits. You can take a quick look at Wal-Mart's purchasing policies here.

As a former union member I am aware of union benefits. Unions are not free from corruption any more that companies i can assure you.

Proof?

If you are lookig for a link I do not have one. But as a former business owner if I payed out money taxes had to be payed on that, and in all circumstances it was considered mine. I had employees given tips but I always stayed out of that mix.

No, it is apparent that they are working within the laws to hire 14 year olds. It is not apparent that they're trying to fill a need in the community, that's your presumption.

If you are agreeng that they are working within the laws to provide income for these teens then what could be your objection?

Indeed, but I never said they were incapable of doing something without ulterior motives -- I simply rejected your implication that they were benevolently motivated in any sense beyond their bottom line.

Why? And lets just say your correct about their motivation. what wrong is being done?

 

[Pastor Larry]

How is this exploitation? Are these kids required to work? Are they working against their will?

If they weren't working, Walmart wouldn't be spending more money for this service. They simply would not have it.

It sounds like this is teaching kids to work for a living, and that the money they earn depends on the service they give. What a great alternative to the free society others have created where teens get money for doing nothing.

Why is Walmart on the hook to pay people more than Walmart feels they are worth? Here's a good idea. If you don't like what Walmart is paying you, then don't work there. If you don't like what Walmart is paying others, don't shop there.

And why is the UN being cited an authority for child labor? They have done such a good job in other parts of the world, let's by all means bring them here.

 

[Analgesic]

As a former union member I am aware of union benefits. Unions are not free from corruption any more that companies i can assure you.

Oh, I'm under no such delusion. The right's attack on unions has been met by the left with such a staunch defense that they're not willing to look at the many ways that unions need to be reformed. Fortunately we can agree on this!

If you are lookig for a link I do not have one. But as a former business owner if I payed out money taxes had to be payed on that, and in all circumstances it was considered mine. I had employees given tips but I always stayed out of that mix.

Right, but this is in Mexico so different laws would apply and even if they are similar I'm not sure that it would have to be done through the employer paying out. Either way, there are creative ways around that, if Wal-Mart was really interested in guaranteeing that the kids got compensation.

If you are agreeng that they are working within the laws to provide income for these teens then what could be your objection?

1. Your unproven implication that they are benevolently motivated in doing so.

2. The fact that Wal-Mart is receiving the benefit of their services without having to shoulder any of the costs or responsibility.

Why? And lets just say your correct about their motivation. what wrong is being done?

Wal-Mart doesn't exactly have a history of great worker benefits. It does have a history of squeezing every source to their detriment for their own profit. The wrong being done is the benefits Wal-Mart is receiving without cost.

 

[Rufus_1611]

How is this exploitation? Are these kids required to work? Are they working against their will?

Nope. They're working for free because they like it.

If they weren't working, Walmart wouldn't be spending more money for this service. They simply would not have it.

It sounds like this is teaching kids to work for a living, and that the money they earn depends on the service they give. What a great alternative to the free society others have created where teens get money for doing nothing.

It's teaching kids that corporations should be able to profit off of their labor and they should long for the scraps from the consumers that voluntarily give them tips.

Why is Walmart on the hook to pay people more than Walmart feels they are worth?

Excellent point. I believe Walmart has established what they believe these people are worth.

Here's a good idea. If you don't like what Walmart is paying you, then don't work there. If you don't like what Walmart is paying others, don't shop there.

Done.

And why is the UN being cited an authority for child labor? They have done such a good job in other parts of the world, let's by all means bring them here.

Mexico is a socialist state and the UN is their socialist papa.