Tell Office Depot: Leave our kids alone!

[hillclimber1]

I dont understand this thread! What are people so afraid of...is it the Homosexual & a queer lifestyle?

It is the ungodly promotion of deviance. Homosexuality is a sin, a very grievous sin causing terrible damage to people and shortening their lives. It is non-reproducible, therefore homosexuals must attract new converts, and the biggest field for harvest is the young people with hormones raging, trying to figure out who they are. They are very vulnerable.

I'm sure most of them would prefer not to be homosexual because that has to complicate their individual lives.

And I am sure that they chose to be homosexuals, and a very small number of them desire to change.

And no one of our religious persuasion will ever accept them or their life styles as normal.

Well, certainly not Spirit filled Christians, but there are many many "churches" out there that will accept most anything..

Is it that your all afraid children will get mixed messages & become homosexuals? I assure you that if the kids are raised in a bible believing Christian home, then they will know the difference. So what is it specifically that you object to.

I don't worry about kids that are raised in Christian homes.. It is the vast majority of kids out there making their way in the world, that worry me.

...after all homosexuals by law have rights as human beings also but should abide by the norms of society. Whatever they do in their own homes to one another in privacy is their own affair....& and if they want to choose an abnormal & sinful life, how you going to change that.....certainly not by boycotting the Home Depot....that is laughable.

Homosexuals should abide by the same laws as every citizen. What they are demanding are special rights, such as marrying someone of the same sex, but more to the point, they are "demanding" not just normalcy, but the "Right" to promote their deviance in public schools.. Yes.. PROMOTE..

My objections are more focused on aggressive deviant behavior like pedophiles who scar children for life. Those should be identified & locked up for life to keep them away from the innocent. Or they should be surgically neutered.

I think it's been found that neutering them doesn't change much.. They still exhibit deviant behavior..

Those that chose/choose to stay in the closet, and make no demands are still in gross sin, and need redemption, but they did very little harm. It is those embracing these radical demands that have necessitated action in the Church..

 

[TCassidy]

The article proves the claim is false.

It is obvious you didn't read it, or if you did read it you didn't understand it. The entire article is predicated on a false foundational assumption: that there is a gay gene. Nobody has made such a claim, so refuting it is fallacious.

 

[TCassidy]

And I am sure that they chose to be homosexuals, and a very small number of them desire to change.

The above is the stupidest statement I have ever read on the BB (and I have read a lot of stupid statements on the BB).

If you get off your self-righteous horse and actually talk to these men you would find that none of them chose to be gay and that most of them have tried to change, want to change, did every thing possible to change including calling out to their Creator but they remain the same. The gay community has one of the highest incidents of suicide of any group of men. Does that sound like they CHOOSE to be gay?

Maybe if you spent more time praying for them, witnessing to them, loving them as God commands you to love them, and stop lying about them you might learn just a little compassion on those less perfect than you seem to think you are.

 

[freeatlast]

It is obvious you didn't read it, or if you did read it you didn't understand it. The entire article is predicated on a false foundational assumption: that there is a gay gene. Nobody has made such a claim, so refuting it is fallacious.

You made the claim.

 

[hillclimber1]

The above is the stupidest statement I have ever read on the BB (and I have read a lot of stupid statements on the BB).

If I look at it from the perspective of alcoholism, I agree with you. An alcoholic doesn't choose to be one, he is one because he drinks.. A homosexual can be one, I suppose, and choose to or choose not to participate.. But I can think of a lot of stupider things you've no doubt read on here, or that I have said or typed before.

If you get off your self-righteous horse and actually talk to these men you would find that none of them chose to be gay and that most of them have tried to change, want to change, did every thing possible to change including calling out to their Creator but they remain the same. The gay community has one of the highest incidents of suicide of any group of men. Does that sound like they CHOOSE to be gay?

I believe I have a lot more to do with homosexuals than you do.. I work with some, who are trying successfully (some unsuccessfully) to turn from this sin. I pray daily, (more often than that) for a number of them..

Maybe if you spent more time praying for them, witnessing to them, loving them as God commands you to love them, and stop lying about them you might learn just a little compassion on those less perfect than you seem to think you are.

What makes you so nasty? See above: I do pray for them, and I know from their very mouths, who they are and what they deal with.. I council them. And you? How'd that bee get under your bonnet?

 

[TCassidy]

You made the claim.

No, I didn't. That is patently clear to anyone who read what I wrote. Go back and read it again.

 

[TCassidy]

If I look at it from the perspective of alcoholism, I agree with you. An alcoholic doesn't choose to be one, he is one because he drinks.. A homosexual can be one, I suppose, and choose to or choose not to participate.. But I can think of a lot of stupider things you've no doubt read on here, or that I have said or typed before.

You are talking about the activity while I am talking about the orientation.

I believe I have a lot more to do with homosexuals than you do.

I doubt that. I counsel gay men virtually every day.

I work with some, who are trying successfully (some unsuccessfully) to turn from this sin.

Even Exodus International now admits they have NEVER changed the orientation of one of their gay clients, and clearly state that orientation cannot be changed. Only activity.

I pray daily, (more often than that) for a number of them.

Good for you. Do you pray that God will help you be compassionate and understanding of their struggle?

What makes you so nasty?

Self righteous Christians who condemn others who are no worse sinners than themselves.

See above: I do pray for them, and I know from their very mouths, who they are and what they deal with.. I council them.

Then how can you still say that homosexuality is a choice! You know better! (And the correct spelling is "counsel.")

And you? How'd that bee get under your bonnet?

By counseling good and godly men who are victims of self-righteous "Christians" who call for them being murdered, put behind barbed wire, etc.

 

[freeatlast]

No, I didn't. That is patently clear to anyone who read what I wrote. Go back and read it again.

Rather then post all you wrote I am posting only what deals with what is being discussed;
You wrote;
"Bill, I find myself in the very uncomfortable position of having to agree with you!"

Then you stated why if I understand you;

"When the Human Genome project was completed it was found that all homosexual men shared one trait in common. They all had gene Xq28 in the "on" or dominate function."

Conclusion;
But it is indeed a fact that they are "born that way.

My question is how are you not saying it is a gene problem or a birth problem when you seem to say that. Are you saying that everyone who murders has a murder gene, or those who rape have a rape gene, and so on or what?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Homosexuality is most likely a birth defect.

As is a propensity for violence, or kleptomania, or problems with self-destruction. We all suffer from a birth defect, in that we are born unable to live without sinning.

 

[TCassidy]

My question is how are you not saying it is a gene problem or a birth problem when you seem to say that. Are you saying that everyone who murders has a murder gene, or those who rape have a rape gene, and so on or what?

I'm sorry. I thought I was dealing with an adult with at least a 3rd grade reading comprehension.

I did not say it is not a gene problem. As I pointed "all homosexual men shared one trait in common. They all had gene Xq28 in the "on" or dominate function. Bailey and Pillard found that 52% of monozygotic (identical twin) brothers and 22% of the dizygotic (fraternal twin) twins were concordant for homosexuality. (Wilson and Rahman 2005, p47.)"

I also pointed out that Xq28 has a "penetrance (the proportion of individuals carrying a particular variant of a gene (allele or genotype) that also express an associated trait (phenotype) - in other words, the number of men having the gene who are also gay) was only around 55-60% so there was some other factor influencing the development of homosexuality. It could be environmental, although the twins in the study had identical environments but not identical development of the trait, or the result of an as yet unknown allele (gene)."

Notice the last sentence. "It could be environmental, although the twins in the study had identical environments but not identical development of the trait, or the result of an as yet unknown allele (gene)."

Notice the word "unknown" before "allele" (gene). If there is a "gay gene" (and that is highly doubtful) it is as of yet still "unknown."

So, again, I did not say there is a gay gene. I said gay men had certain genetic similarities but some men with the same genetic similarity were not gay. However, the percentages are way out of order for it to be mere chance.

 

[freeatlast]

As is a propensity for violence, or kleptomania, or problems with self-destruction. We all suffer from a birth defect, in that we are born unable to live without sinning.

That is not considered a birth defect.

 

[freeatlast]

I'm sorry. I thought I was dealing with an adult with at least a 3rd grade reading comprehension.

I did not say it is not a gene problem. As I pointed "all homosexual men shared one trait in common. They all had gene Xq28 in the "on" or dominate function. Bailey and Pillard found that 52% of monozygotic (identical twin) brothers and 22% of the dizygotic (fraternal twin) twins were concordant for homosexuality. (Wilson and Rahman 2005, p47.)"

.

So you admit you said what I stated which the article debunked. The claim of a gene is false.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

That is not considered a birth defect.

Maybe not to you.

 

[freeatlast]

Maybe not to you.

Not to anyone except perhaps those who come up with their own private definitions. It is not even a biblical rendering. Look up birth defect if you do not understand the term.

 

[TCassidy]

So you admit you said what I stated which the article debunked. The claim of a gene is false.

One more time then I will just dismiss you as too ignorant to deal with.

I did not claim there was a gay gene. To say or insinuate I did is a liar.

I said that gay men all share an allele (X28q). But all men with that allele are not gay so there must be something else going on. Whether that something else is genetic, or environmental, we don't know. But we can't dismiss the fact that all gay men share the X28q allele.

Got it now? If not, too bad. I am done. I will not waste my time trying to educate a person who is too ignorant to know he is ignorant.

 

[freeatlast]

One more time then I will just dismiss you as too ignorant to deal with.

I did not claim there was a gay gene. To say or insinuate I did is a liar.

I said that gay men all share an allele (X28q). But all men with that allele are not gay so there must be something else going on. Whether that something else is genetic, or environmental, we don't know. But we can't dismiss the fact that all gay men share the X28q allele.

Got it now? If not, too bad. I am done. I will not waste my time trying to educate a person who is too ignorant to know he is ignorant.

You said;
"I said that gay men all share an allele (X28q)."
and tied it to why you believe it is birth issue and not totally a choice.. You are proving what I stated. I ask you again. Is there any other sin where people try and attach a gene as holding total or partial responsibility for the sin?
If you do not mean what you said what is it then that convinced you that homosexuals are born such?

 

[Don]

...Is there any other sin where people try and attach a gene as holding total or partial responsibility for the sin?

Obesity (gluttony).

My point being: I have a genetic propensity towards heterosexuality. I never "chose" to like girls; I just do. If you believe it's a choice, then ask yourself: When did you "choose" to like the opposite sex?

This genetic predisposition makes me capable of adultery. I choose not to.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The above is the stupidest statement I have ever read on the BB (and I have read a lot of stupid statements on the BB).

If you get off your self-righteous horse and actually talk to these men you would find that none of them chose to be gay and that most of them have tried to change, want to change, did every thing possible to change including calling out to their Creator but they remain the same. The gay community has one of the highest incidents of suicide of any group of men. Does that sound like they CHOOSE to be gay?

Maybe if you spent more time praying for them, witnessing to them, loving them as God commands you to love them, and stop lying about them you might learn just a little compassion on those less perfect than you seem to think you are.

I have tried to minister to them & spent time talking with many homosexual folks who ALL say the same thing.... they want to be heterosexual, they did not choose to be queer.... at least not the men Ive spoken to. Now the lesbians are another situation all together. In many simulations I have found them choosing a gay lifestyle, generally after unfortunate experiences with men... they just flip to women.

 

[freeatlast]

Obesity (gluttony).

My point being: I have a genetic propensity towards heterosexuality. I never "chose" to like girls; I just do. If you believe it's a choice, then ask yourself: When did you "choose" to like the opposite sex?

This genetic predisposition makes me capable of adultery. I choose not to.

Obesity is NOT a sin. That is some more of man''s teaching NOT God's. Gluttony yes, but biblical gluttony has nothing to do with weight.

 

[Don]

Obesity is NOT a sin. That is some more of man''s teaching NOT God's. Gluttony yes, but biblical gluttony has nothing to do with weight.

Would it have been better if I had just said "gluttony"? Granted, the word zalal has a definition that doesn't specifically identify eating; but the word is used in association with both riotous eaters and those that are given to appetites (appetites here doesn't necessarily apply only to eating; but doesn't disclude eating, either).

How many times have you heard someone make an excuse for their obesity, such as "I'm big-boned" or "it's a genetic disorder"? And then watched as they put away a couple of Big Macs? I knew one man who took his daughter to McDonald's almost every day and they had "cheeseburger eating contests." They're both huge, and she's now suffering in other ways for that behavior.

Scientists have done research that seem to indicate there are certain predispositions to heavier eating (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120523114847.htm). We can point to the fact that they overate, whatever their reason for doing so; which contributed to their obesity.

Not controlling such behavior is the same as not controlling our sexual "appetites"; thus, gluttony.