Tell Office Depot: Leave our kids alone!

[freeatlast]

Would it have been better if I had just said "gluttony"? Granted, the word zalal has a definition that doesn't specifically identify eating; but the word is used in association with both riotous eaters and those that are given to appetites (appetites here doesn't necessarily apply only to eating; but doesn't disclude eating, either).

How many times have you heard someone make an excuse for their obesity, such as "I'm big-boned" or "it's a genetic disorder"? And then watched as they put away a couple of Big Macs? I knew one man who took his daughter to McDonald's almost every day and they had "cheeseburger eating contests." They're both huge, and she's now suffering in other ways for that behavior.

Scientists have done research that seem to indicate there are certain predispositions to heavier eating (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120523114847.htm). We can point to the fact that they overate, whatever their reason for doing so; which contributed to their obesity.

Not controlling such behavior is the same as not controlling our sexual "appetites"; thus, gluttony.

No, being over weight is not a sin. You clearly do not understand how the word translated gluttony is being used in scripture. You are trying to add to scripture. If weight was a sin then the scripture would have to give a BMI chart so we could know what the parameters are. Men do not set the parameters. Also no person in scripture is EVER condemned because of weight, gluttony yes, weight no. Your assertion is blatantly false and I would remind you of Rev. 22:18 as you pile on the backs of men that which you are not able to carry.

 

[TCassidy]

Obesity (gluttony).

My point being: I have a genetic propensity towards heterosexuality. I never "chose" to like girls; I just do. If you believe it's a choice, then ask yourself: When did you "choose" to like the opposite sex?

This genetic predisposition makes me capable of adultery. I choose not to.

Don, Amen! "and put a knife to your throat if you are given to appetite." Proverbs 12:2.

 

[Don]

No, being over weight is not a sin. You clearly do not understand how the word translated gluttony is being used in scripture. You are trying to add to scripture. If weight was a sin then the scripture would have to give a BMI chart so we could know what the parameters are. Men do not set the parameters. Also no person in scripture is EVER condemned because of weight, gluttony yes, weight no. Your assertion is blatantly false and I would remind you of Rev. 22:18 as you pile on the backs of men that which you are not able to carry.

You clearly do not understand what I'm saying; so I'll backtrack and say, you're correct; obesity is not a sin of itself; but is the result of allowing gluttony to rule your life. Now, people try to make excuses for it; and scientists have even identified certain genes they're associating with it--but we all know that's just another excuse.

 

[freeatlast]

You clearly do not understand what I'm saying; so I'll backtrack and say, you're correct; obesity is not a sin of itself; but is the result of allowing gluttony to rule your life. Now, people try to make excuses for it; and scientists have even identified certain genes they're associating with it--but we all know that's just another excuse.

Yes I do understand what you are saying. I am saying you do not understand what scripture is saying. Gluttony is certainly a sin. However gluttony is not tied in any way to weight in scripture. You are trying to tie the two together.

Gluttony can be tied to food, but it really covers the whole lifestyle. In scripture it was uaually done by the rich as the poor could not afford to be gluttons. Speaking about food there are some very fat people in both the rich and very poor. When pointing to food alone the passages are dealing with people who frequent fancy banquets and large suppers, or parties with a wide variety of different lavish foods and who see all the different kinds of food but they know they cannot eat it all but their gluttonous heart wants it all so they eat until they are gorged and then up-chuck to eat more, gluttony. It has nothing what so ever to do with being overweight. Those people many times had no weight problems as they up-chucked what they ate. It is like the guy who wanted to build more barns to store more riches.

It would be like a person going into an all you can eat restaurant and eating some of everything from the serving tables, but to do so they have to up-chuck.
Just because someone eats and does not get enough exercise to overcome what they eat and they put on pounds does not make them a glutton no matter how much they are over weight. Now it is true that could be one consequence, but it is NOT what the scripture is calling gluttony or pointing to as to determine what gluttony is. As I said if this was tied to pounds then the scripture would have to give a BMI chart so we could judge our eating. This is about gorging ourselves and then getting rid of the food we ate so we can eat more.

So as I stated there is no gene that causes people to be gluttons any more then there is a gene that causes people to rape, murder, rob, lie, committ homosexuality, coveting or any other sin. I would agree that there may very well be some gene that makes people fat or eat until they become very fat, but being fat is not because they are gluttons. People are gluttons because they want more of the finest and best even if they are already full and they do what ever it takes to get more.

In Deut. 21:20 and
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son [is] stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; [he is] a glutton, and a drunkard.

as well as Proverbs 23:21 we can see more clear a comparrison.

For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe [a man] with rags.

The word for glutton means the following;

) to be worthless, be vile, be insignificant, be light
a) (Qal)
1) to be worthless, be insignificant
2) to make light of, squander, be lavish with
2) to shake, tremble, quake
a) (Niphal) to shake, quake

Being fat has nothing to do with it. It is people who live for themselves indulging to excess' of life in everything that fills their own desires.

 

[Don]

You didn't even look at the article I posted a link to; or you willfully disregarded it.

Researchers from The Miriam Hospital's Weight Control and Diabetes Research Center say individuals with variations in certain "obesity genes" tend to eat more meals and snacks, consume more calories per day and often choose the same types of high fat, sugary foods.
Their study, published online by the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and appearing in the June issue, reveals certain variations within the FTO and BDNF genes -- which have been previously linked to obesity -- may play a role in eating habits that can cause obesity.

Biblical gluttony is a mis-placed desire, an over-indulgence to the point of excess and/or waste. I'd like to see your research materials that state it "has" to include regurgitation.

People are gluttons because they want more of the finest and best even if they are already full and they do what ever it takes to get more.

Exactly. And that's exactly what I've been saying. And it's that same attitude that "justifies" other things like homosexuality--even if it's in our "nature" to do certain things, it's our attitude about those things that tends to want to justify them and make them right, even--especially?--when they're not.

Sometimes I can't tell if you counter-point me simply because you don't like me, or because you actually believe I'm saying something different from you. I tend to think it's the former.

---Edited to add:
I see where you brought up the definition of the word; however, you didn't include the rendering that Tom previously pointed out from Proverbs 23:20 ("riotous eaters").

 

[freeatlast]

You didn't even look at the article I posted a link to; or you willfully disregarded it.



Biblical gluttony is a mis-placed desire, an over-indulgence to the point of excess and/or waste. I'd like to see your research materials that state it "has" to include regurgitation.


Exactly. And that's exactly what I've been saying. And it's that same attitude that "justifies" other things like homosexuality--even if it's in our "nature" to do certain things, it's our attitude about those things that tends to want to justify them and make them right, even--especially?--when they're not.

Sometimes I can't tell if you counter-point me simply because you don't like me, or because you actually believe I'm saying something different from you. I tend to think it's the former.

---Edited to add:
I see where you brought up the definition of the word; however, you didn't include the rendering that Tom previously pointed out from Proverbs 23:20 ("riotous eaters").

Any opposition might be because I miss-understand what you are saying. I looked over the article, but it seemed to support what I understand you to be saying. My point is that gluttony in scripture is not tied in any way to being over weight and as you mentioned a gene in regards to it I am trying to show there is no such gene. A glutton could be someone who is very skinny but we would not normally tie gluttony to someone who was skinny so we should not tie it to someone who is fat. Gluttony is a lifestyle, not an eating disorder.

As to riotous eaters in 23:20 it is the same Hebrew word translated gluttons and is not tied solely to eating of food.

 

[Don]

Any opposition might be because I miss-understand what you are saying. I looked over the article, but it seemed to support what I understand you to be saying. My point is that gluttony in scripture is not tied in any way to being over weight and as you mentioned a gene in regards to it I am trying to show there is no such gene. A glutton could be someone who is very skinny but we would not normally tie gluttony to someone who was skinny so we should not tie it to someone who is fat. Gluttony is a lifestyle, not an eating disorder.

As to riotous eaters in 23:20 it is the same Hebrew word translated gluttons and is not tied solely to eating of food.

You'll notice the parts I bolded from the article on the study, especially the last one: "may play a part in eating habits."

 

[freeatlast]

You'll notice the parts I bolded from the article on the study, especially the last one: "may play a part in eating habits."

I have said there may be a gene that causes over eating, which is not sin, but that was not the initial issue. It was about gluttony which is sin. I simply wanted to set things straight because most Christians hold that being overweight is tied to gluttony when it is not. We tend to pile too much on people that does not belong to them. Gluttony is much broader then just over eating and being fat.

 

[Don]

So it's okay if some people give in to their urges, and satisfy their lusts by eating as much as they want, because it's only an eating disorder and has nothing to do with gluttony, and they can preach against other kinds of sins while they stuff their faces....

But homosexuality is a completely different situation, and has nothing to do with disorders in any way, shape, or form.

Got it. Understood.

 

[freeatlast]

So it's okay if some people give in to their urges, and satisfy their lusts by eating as much as they want, because it's only an eating disorder and has nothing to do with gluttony, and they can preach against other kinds of sins while they stuff their faces....

But homosexuality is a completely different situation, and has nothing to do with disorders in any way, shape, or form.

Got it. Understood.

No you still don't understand. You are still stuck on linking over eating with gluttony. Homosexuality is not a disorder. It is a choice. Biblical Gluttony is not a disorder. It is a choice.
An eating disorder is not sin if a gene is involved but even if no gene is causing it, it still is not biblical gluttony by itself.

 

[Don]

No you still don't understand. You are still stuck on linking over eating with gluttony. Homosexuality is not a disorder. It is a choice. Biblical Gluttony is not a disorder. It is a choice.
An eating disorder is not sin if a gene is involved but even if no gene is causing it, it still is not biblical gluttony by itself.

Oh, I understand.

 

[blackbird]

Homosexuality is most likely a birth defect.

Homosesuality is NOT a birth defect-----its a MIND defect!!!

 

[HankD]

The worst sins are the ones I do not commit.

HankD