Tenn. assoc. disfellowships church with female pastor

[Rolfe]

EXCELLENT post! The only thing I question is the living wife? A divorce, legally dismisses and absolves, LEGALLY (and God is all into legality) the spouse, so, what say you on that?

Liberal-thinking, not based on Scripture. St. Matthew 5:32.

 

[righteousdude2]

I see. Because I disagree with you I am unqualified to pastor because I "don't love my neighbor?"

Well, if you are a pastor, Ted, the most important gift, you should have is listening? Let me remind you that this comment was meant for another member; I even quoted that member. It surely was not directed at you! I did have one objection to you excellent post, but you seem to want to focus on something that is not pertaining to you in any way, shape or form! Sorry you read that response and took it personal?! Rolleyes

 

[righteousdude2]

I say, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God."

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Paul makes it clear in Romans 7:2 F the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

And in case you missed it the first time he repeats the principle in 1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

I say, you need to review Romans 8:1, "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.…"

If you which to be legalistic, Ted, that is certainly your right! However, be reminded that Paul also told us, "Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God's grace." Romans 6:14.

And the verse, or teaching I truly love is in John 8:1-11, particularly verses 10 and 11, where Jesus speaks to the adulterous woman and asks and commands, "Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?" ..... "No, Lord,” she said. And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

I happen to believe that there is no sin, except for blasphemy, that God can't and won't forgive! However, if you chose to be selective that is something you will have to live with and give an answer for in heaven! I used to be a lot like you, Ted, legalistic, and strict when it came to these issues! Nevertheless, God has taught me a very personal lesson about sin, forgiveness and his Grace towards those who sin in the manner of divorce and remarriage!

I'll bet you have no problem with Christian pastors and leaders who smoke or drink (socially of course)? Or do you? How about cussing? What about being overweight? And have you ever gossiped? What do we do with those folks: cast them aside, if they committed those sins and transgressions while living for Jesus?

 

[JohnDBaptiste]

Many times in scripture the Woman... Virgin... Bride... Chaste is representative of the church... The church is the bride and the bridegroom is Christ... The Apostate Church is also representative of a Woman... Whore, Jezebel and the daughters of a whore, unchaste and any other designation you might want to add of a fallen woman... So if the bride usurps the authority of the bridegroom who is Christ what women is she?... Brother Glen

A clever argument. But it does not apply to the points I addressed and certainly not to the Godly women who stepped up in history where men who could have did not (for whatever reason).

 

[JohnDBaptiste]

You're liberal side is showing on this Dude. We all know you have no problem with divorced pastors and now you think women pastors are OK too? Typical California liberal.

Does Dr. Charles Stanley (Senior Pastor First Baptist Atlanta, Ga) deserve to be kicked out of the pastorate?

 

[matt wade]

Does Dr. Charles Stanley (Senior Pastor First Baptist Atlanta, Ga) deserve to be kicked out of the pastorate?

I'm not aware of the circumstances around his divorce, or his part in it.

 

[TCassidy]

I happen to believe that there is no sin, except for blasphemy, that God can't and won't forgive! However, if you chose to be selective that is something you will have to live with and give an answer for in heaven!

Please try to be just a little honest in your postings. I never said that there are some sins God will not or can not forgive. That is simply a lie. It is not about being forgiven. It is about being qualified for the pastorate.

I have a friend who was a basketball star in high school. He went to college on a basketball scholarship. He was offered a place in the lineup of a professional team but he had been in ROTC all through college and wanted to service in the Army before accepting the offer to go pro.

He stepped on a "bouncing betty" and lost his left leg. When he was medically discharged he did not play pro ball. Why not? Not because there was unforgiven sin but because he was no longer qualified.

I used to be a lot like you,

No you didn't.

Ted,

Everyone who has been on the BB for more than 20 minutes knows my name is Tom.

legalistic,

Not even a little.

and strict when it came to these issues! N

Depends on what you mean by "strict." If you mean "believing the bible" then, yes, I do.

 

[TCassidy]

Well, if you are a pastor, Ted, the most important gift, you should have is listening?

First, again, my name is Tom. Second, no, the most important gift a pastor can have is not "listening." In fact that "gift" is not even mentioned. The most important gift is "pastor/teacher."

Let me remind you that this comment was meant for another member; I even quoted that member.

No, you didn't quote anyone. If you would learn to use the quote function perhaps the confusion could be lessened.

Here is your entire post (post #51)

1. 
   righteousdude2Active Member
   God also takes seriously, your inability to love your neighbor as yourself! I think you may fall into this catagorey, as much as a divorced man or woman falls into your catch all judgement!
   
   righteousdude2, Saturday at 11:06 PMReport
   #51Reply

1. It surely was not directed at you!

   Then quote who it was directed to.

   I did have one objection to you excellent post, but you seem to want to focus on something that is not pertaining to you in any way, shape or form! Sorry you read that response and took it personal?! Rolleyes

   Sorry you were so unclear who you were addressing. But clarity of thought does not seem to be your strong suit, especially where the bible is involved.

 

[Yeshua1]

I used to actively pursue this subject (by that I mean I sought out women pastors and those who supported them). I had every argument down pat. I used Greek and Hebrew, pointing out that the Prophetess Deborah was to shame the cowardice men of Israel at the time (both in ministry and in the military). How Priscilla and Acquila may have been a team consisting of minister and hostess (which is a ministry of deacons). That Junia was outstanding among the apostles was merely the estimate of the apostles regarding her and not saying she was herself an apostle. Then I proceeded to point out that the spirit of Jezebel in Revelation deceived her followers by her teaching meant by the fact that it was a woman doing the teaching...

Then the Holy Spirit collared me. "Then it would be better that the Gospel message did not get out at all if it meant that women would teach or usurp authority over men?"

I was undone.

He was right. I was wrong. Every time there was shortfall of males (for whatever reason) God sent women. Deborah, the woman at the well, the women who discovered the empty tomb, Rhoda who saw Peter released from prison...

Then it began to come clear to me that Christianity suffers from an identity crisis mainly due to the fact that most believers buy into the unbiblical division of clergy and laity. We are ALL called to be priests before God in the New Covenant. The division of clergy and laity was Old Covenant after what happened in Exodus 32. In Exodus 19:6 God intended all Israel to be a kingdom of priests. But they blew it in the wilderness so badly that 3,000 people were slaughtered at the LORD's command. Never underestimate what happened there. And learn from the example that sin is to be avoided if for no other reason there are times when God is trying to make an important point and to be caught in sin at that moment is to draw severe judgment. Like when Moses was strickened from leading the people into the Holy Land for striking the rock twice. God was making a prophetic example that Moses blew. The rock was symbolic of Jesus who would be struck (crucified) only once.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The Greek version of the Hebrew kingdom of priests:

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Estimates are that there are some 1 billion Christians on earth. There is nowhere near that many people in Christian ministry. So as long as we are in such a shortfall, we haven't the moral grounds to give grief to women pastors. And if we cannot abide them then we ought to step up into the pastorate ourselves fellows!

So we can disregard he Lord in regards to whom he would deem fit to be ordained as spiritual authorities within the local church?

Cannot God actually provide the numbers needed without us doing that?

 

[Zaac]

Does Dr. Charles Stanley (Senior Pastor First Baptist Atlanta, Ga) deserve to be kicked out of the pastorate?

I said earlier that I believe Dr, Stanley should have stepped down for a time. He has not reconciled to his wife. But neither has he taken another wife.

 

[John Toppass]

Reading and understanding are two different activities. I, for one, cannot find anywhere in the Bible that says a divorced man can not be a pastor. It is the remarrying of another that is not his wife (who is still living) that does this. He is no longer the husband of one wife.
Some say Paul was talking about polygamy, but polygamy was an not an issue with the Jew nor most Gentiles. Paul was not talking about being married to one woman at a time either, he was not talking about have only one flavor of the week, month, year or period. He was talking about have one wife and I believe that is before or after salvation.
These rules are not designed to punish anyone but they are God's rules for His Church. God knows why He made these rules and He expects us to faithfully abide by them. God's rules are not to be amended by Godly men. People twist and delete parts of God's Word, not to be Holy, but to excuse the shortcomings of their behavior so they can pretend that everything is alright so they may continue doing man's will. God wants his loved creation to love Him back. We do that by keeping His Commands and not changing or adding to them because He will keep His Word.

 

[annsni]

Reading and understanding are two different activities. I, for one, cannot find anywhere in the Bible that says a divorced man can not be a pastor. It is the remarrying of another that is not his wife (who is still living) that does this. He is no longer the husband of one wife.

See - I will disagree with this. Let's take a look at what is spoken of when Jesus meets the Samaritan woman at the well:

"The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.” Jesus *said to her, “You have correctly said, ‘I have no husband’; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly.”

Jesus said she was correct that she has no husband. Jesus didn't say "Oh, on the contrary, you have 5 husbands and the one that you are with isn't your husband."

So a divorced man remarrying would still be the husband of one wife. Had he married the second woman while he was still married to the first, that would be different.

 

[agedman]

See - I will disagree with this. Let's take a look at what is spoken of when Jesus meets the Samaritan woman at the well:

"The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.” Jesus *said to her, “You have correctly said, ‘I have no husband’; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly.”

Jesus said she was correct that she has no husband. Jesus didn't say "Oh, on the contrary, you have 5 husbands and the one that you are with isn't your husband."

So a divorced man remarrying would still be the husband of one wife. Had he married the second woman while he was still married to the first, that would be different.

Not sure I understand.

Are you saying that if a man divorces and joins with another that person can still be the pastor of a church?

 

[John Toppass]

See - I will disagree with this. Let's take a look at what is spoken of when Jesus meets the Samaritan woman at the well:

"The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.” Jesus *said to her, “You have correctly said, ‘I have no husband’; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly.”

Jesus said she was correct that she has no husband. Jesus didn't say "Oh, on the contrary, you have 5 husbands and the one that you are with isn't your husband."

So a divorced man remarrying would still be the husband of one wife. Had he married the second woman while he was still married to the first, that would be different.

We can look at what was spoken when Jesus meets the woman at the well. We could also buy apples to make orange juice. These are two different situations. Jesus was not vetting the woman to be a pastor he was giving her direction so that she could be saved. God did not make the rules of how the Church is structured to punish people. God sees the big picture that we do not see. It is God's Church, changing the definitions of the rules that God has set makes it man's or woman's church. People want to do something so bad that they ignore God's commands and laws and then think they will stand before God and explain to Him how they improved on His shortcomings.

Yes, I, myself, often fall into justifying my sin, at least until I have accomplished what I knew to be wrong. I am so thankful that my Savior's blood is a lot more powerful than all sin combined.

 

[righteousdude2]

[QUOTE="TCassidy, post: 2180287, member: 2704"But clarity of thought does not seem to be your strong suit, especially where the bible is involved.
[/QUOTE]

Ouch! You certainly are snarky! How does God handle that kind of attitude, dressing down and tone when speaking to another brother, TOM? Still, I do forgive you for your mannerisms! It is clearly understood that I am not someone you like! Even though I was created in the same IMAGE of God as you?

In the words of of the immortal John Lennon,
"All you need is love!"​

 

[righteousdude2]

Then quote who it was directed to.

I think that was a question, even though you omitted the question mark! Well, if you think it was meant for you, then maybe it was! Who am I to change your mind on very much, TOM? You seem to be steadfast and focused on your interpretations of scripture, and I doubt the Lord Himself could change your mind, at this time in your life! With that said, Get some sleep, as it sounds like you are spending a lot of time on my comments and my interpretations of scripture! I am but a grain of sand in a beach full of sand. You too are but a grain of sand (not the pebble or rock you are trying to puff yourself up to be, and like sand paper, we seem to be rubbing each other the wrong way! So, TOM, take a break! Life goes on! I am sure you have bigger fish to fry in your little world of temporal theology!

 

[righteousdude2]

Please try to be just a little honest in your postings. I never said that there are some sins God will not or can not forgive. That is simply a lie. It is not about being forgiven. It is about being qualified for the pastorate.

Hey TOM ......
enough with the mud?!

​

 

[righteousdude2]

First, again, my name is Tom.

Oops! I don't know where I came up with "Ted" but I do apologize! However, have you ever considered changing your name to "Ted?" Whistling

Again, it was an honest mistake! Wink

 

[Rolfe]

Someone needs thicker skin...

 

[Zaac]

Someone needs thicker skin...

Why would you want to saddle thicker skin with that burden?