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Tennessee Temple University
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Danny Lovett is not the first person ever to leave Liberty "of his own doing" (or Thomas Road, or OTGH, or LBN, or Familynet, or LCA...) and then JLF names the replacement almost immediately. And, as either coincidence or a strange stroke of luck would have it, that new person is more often than not a "bigger name." A pattern that's been in place for decades.
I don't mean to imply that this is what happened wtih Lovett. Wait a minute. Yes I do.
I don't mean to imply that this is what happened wtih Lovett. Wait a minute. Yes I do.
Sounds to me that the school has gone from a rigid liberalism (phariseeism) to one of more balance.
I once heard a man say to me (who was from a country where the liberals have caused a lot of problems) that the liberals and fundamentalists lie in the same bed just on opposite ends. Each are just as rigid and dogmatic as the other. Both are legalistic in their own ways.
Calling an evangelical school liberal is definitely an attack. Evangelical schools are Fundamentalist, Conservative and Moderate. IMO they stop being evangelical schools when they become liberal. That's why it's an attack to call them such. BTW Geography doesn't always prepare one for understanding a school's theological bent.
DeafPosttrib
New Member
I have been visit the campus of TTU many times while I used to live in Georgia. TTU is not too liberalism. TTU is not a legalism. TTU is just a right standard, and have the same doctrines from the Bible just same as what IFB really believe. I have nothing against TTU. I consider TTU is pretty not bad baptist college. It have well education, and also theology classes too. Of course TTU is not KJV Onlyism.
TTU was in dark times during early 1990's, there was turmoil among staffs and leaders at TTU. Later during late 1990's, TTU seems all right and better.
I think TTU of 1970's was much strong and strong standard than today because of Dr. Lee Roberson was the President of that college during that period.
Well, many IFB colleges are not perfect. Yet, God uses many IFB colleges, to sent more servants to preach gospel to the world.
Today, many baptists think Liberty University is libralism. To me, it seems liberalism to me. Because Liberty University is now SBC. It was used as IFB before. I think Liberty University become SBC because of more deeper education, medicals, law school, master degrees, deeper theology seminary.
But, never know Liberty University might becoming like as Yale and Harvard someday in the future. Yale, Havard, both were used as Bible colleges in their early period. But somehow they accpet world's philosophy, education, start to astray away from Bible teaching. Liberty University might be like Yale & Havard someday in the near future, if it continue become more liberal.
Many bible colleges are now becomng liberal because of accepting world philosphy, world education, medical, law school, etc. many are forsaking God's Word.
I fear TTU might be becoming like Yale & Havard someday in the near future. I hope not.
Many baptist colleges better be careful not adding too much courses like philosophy, medical, law school, etc. might lead them into compromsing with the world.
P.C.C. better be careful also. Because PCC is adding too much education.
Reggie Rempel, the Deaf President of Harvest Deaf Bible College, told me, he disappoints with PCC, that they do not emphasis on missionary, they focus on education too much.
I wish Yale should be stay the same old path teaching Bible today since its started long time ago.
Oh well, we are in apostasy period today.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
TTU was in dark times during early 1990's, there was turmoil among staffs and leaders at TTU. Later during late 1990's, TTU seems all right and better.
I think TTU of 1970's was much strong and strong standard than today because of Dr. Lee Roberson was the President of that college during that period.
Well, many IFB colleges are not perfect. Yet, God uses many IFB colleges, to sent more servants to preach gospel to the world.
Today, many baptists think Liberty University is libralism. To me, it seems liberalism to me. Because Liberty University is now SBC. It was used as IFB before. I think Liberty University become SBC because of more deeper education, medicals, law school, master degrees, deeper theology seminary.
But, never know Liberty University might becoming like as Yale and Harvard someday in the future. Yale, Havard, both were used as Bible colleges in their early period. But somehow they accpet world's philosophy, education, start to astray away from Bible teaching. Liberty University might be like Yale & Havard someday in the near future, if it continue become more liberal.
Many bible colleges are now becomng liberal because of accepting world philosphy, world education, medical, law school, etc. many are forsaking God's Word.
I fear TTU might be becoming like Yale & Havard someday in the near future. I hope not.
Many baptist colleges better be careful not adding too much courses like philosophy, medical, law school, etc. might lead them into compromsing with the world.
P.C.C. better be careful also. Because PCC is adding too much education.
Reggie Rempel, the Deaf President of Harvest Deaf Bible College, told me, he disappoints with PCC, that they do not emphasis on missionary, they focus on education too much.
I wish Yale should be stay the same old path teaching Bible today since its started long time ago.
Oh well, we are in apostasy period today.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Just listened to graduation at TTU. I was suprised to hear how few graduates there were. When we were there in the late 70s early 80s we had about 250 teacher graduates alone - there were less than 100 graduates total today.
The secular university I graduated from had about 250 people in the department studying to be teachers. Today the department is almost gone and has zero studying to be teachers. The university I am at now has about 12 undergraduate students studying to be teachers in the department. It is the primary training ground for teachers in Iowa. At the university and college level it is expected that nationwide about 20 to 25 percent of the professors will retire within the next five years. Recently the university had three faculty positions open in the department. They brought the top three candidates in each position to the campus. All nine were from China. The vast majority of professors are from other countries. The greatest number of doctoral and masters students are from other countries too. Very few of those students will ever return to their countries because they will be hired here.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
That 100 was the TOTAL number of graduates at all levles and studies at TTU. Amazing stat. I was stunned.
My daughter-in-law graduated Monday from TTU. I am a 1982 grad myself. My son will graduate next year.
I still think TTU is a fine school. Of course it is not for everybody. I am impressed with the spiritual maturity I see in my son the past 4 years.
I like that quote about the liberals and legalists sleeping in the same bed but on the opposite sides- excellent. The thing we so often forget is that 'man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart.'
My daughter-in-law graduated Monday from TTU. I am a 1982 grad myself. My son will graduate next year.
I still think TTU is a fine school. Of course it is not for everybody. I am impressed with the spiritual maturity I see in my son the past 4 years.
I like that quote about the liberals and legalists sleeping in the same bed but on the opposite sides- excellent. The thing we so often forget is that 'man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart.' </font>[/QUOTE]MexDeaf, TTU is the W-H university. Do you know what I mean?
DeafPosttrib
New Member
TTU is not KJV Onlyism. Also, TTU does not deny God's Word as Bible. TTU believes Bible is inspiration-God breathed. Of course, TTU believe differently as how does English Bible get translation comes from. There been debate about Manuscripts, Translations, and Greek today.
Dr. Lee Roberson uses KJV all the times, but he is not "KJV Onlyism".
The most important fundamental what TTU believes about the Bible is, DOCTRINE.
Look, there is almost no difference between TTTU with Hyles-Anderson College, Crown College, BJU, etc... on the doctrines of the Bible like, salvation, trinity, local church, second coming, etc. Because, TTU is still a truly independent fundamental baptist same as Hyles-Anderosn, Crown College, etc.
The only difference between TTU and Hyles-Anderson is standards, and Manuscripts.
Different standards, rules, different teaching on Manuscript, these do not effect both colleges' salvation. Because both believe the same doctrine on salvation, that is the most important they believe according to the Bible, what it says.
Askjo, I don't care that you saying TTU comes from W-H on Bible version.
KJV Onlyism causes churches, and colleges into division or split. Thanked to Dr. Peter Ruckman.
Debate on Manuscripts is not neccessary. The most important that we focus on God's Word: Doctrine.
By the way, TTU have several excellent professors who is able to teaching on Greek. Dr. Dave Winget is the one example that TTU have the finest professor who can teaching on Greek.
If you think TTU is part of W-H. Well, why not you ask questions TTU professor, which who is teaching on Greek, about Manuscripts and Bible transaltion. Of course, I am sure you might not agree with TTU professor on Greek.
So what. No big deal. The most important that, TTU teaches the same doctrines as what IFB churches in America teaching the same.
Let you know Harvest Deaf Baptist College of Rinngold, GA is not KJV Onlyism. Does that mean Harvest Deaf Baptist College is part of W-H? Oh come on!!! That is silly!
Even, some IFB churches attack on TTU, that college is comes from Alexandrian Cult. Such as it labels comes from Dr. Peter Ruckman's teaching. That is silly.
Askjo, are you sure that Harvest Deaf Bible College is part of Alexandrian Cult because of W-H?
If you think so, then TTU, Harvest Deaf Bible College, other IFB colleges are not saved? HUH?!!
Being labeling IFB colleges as, "W-H" or, "Alexandrian Cult", is silly. That is kind of criticizing or attack.
That why I am not interesting in debate on Manuscripts, translation, KJV Onlyism, and Dr. Peter Ruckman. I am interesting in discuss on the doctrines with truths from God's Word only.
No, TTU is not necesscary being label as "W-H", or "Alexandrian Cult", because TTTU is not KJV Onlyism. But, TTU BELIEVES God's Word! Because TTU believes all doctrines comes from God's Word, either KJV or NKJV, both are same doctrine.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Dr. Lee Roberson uses KJV all the times, but he is not "KJV Onlyism".
The most important fundamental what TTU believes about the Bible is, DOCTRINE.
Look, there is almost no difference between TTTU with Hyles-Anderson College, Crown College, BJU, etc... on the doctrines of the Bible like, salvation, trinity, local church, second coming, etc. Because, TTU is still a truly independent fundamental baptist same as Hyles-Anderosn, Crown College, etc.
The only difference between TTU and Hyles-Anderson is standards, and Manuscripts.
Different standards, rules, different teaching on Manuscript, these do not effect both colleges' salvation. Because both believe the same doctrine on salvation, that is the most important they believe according to the Bible, what it says.
Askjo, I don't care that you saying TTU comes from W-H on Bible version.
KJV Onlyism causes churches, and colleges into division or split. Thanked to Dr. Peter Ruckman.
Debate on Manuscripts is not neccessary. The most important that we focus on God's Word: Doctrine.
By the way, TTU have several excellent professors who is able to teaching on Greek. Dr. Dave Winget is the one example that TTU have the finest professor who can teaching on Greek.
If you think TTU is part of W-H. Well, why not you ask questions TTU professor, which who is teaching on Greek, about Manuscripts and Bible transaltion. Of course, I am sure you might not agree with TTU professor on Greek.
So what. No big deal. The most important that, TTU teaches the same doctrines as what IFB churches in America teaching the same.
Let you know Harvest Deaf Baptist College of Rinngold, GA is not KJV Onlyism. Does that mean Harvest Deaf Baptist College is part of W-H? Oh come on!!! That is silly!
Even, some IFB churches attack on TTU, that college is comes from Alexandrian Cult. Such as it labels comes from Dr. Peter Ruckman's teaching. That is silly.
Askjo, are you sure that Harvest Deaf Bible College is part of Alexandrian Cult because of W-H?
If you think so, then TTU, Harvest Deaf Bible College, other IFB colleges are not saved? HUH?!!
Being labeling IFB colleges as, "W-H" or, "Alexandrian Cult", is silly. That is kind of criticizing or attack.
That why I am not interesting in debate on Manuscripts, translation, KJV Onlyism, and Dr. Peter Ruckman. I am interesting in discuss on the doctrines with truths from God's Word only.
No, TTU is not necesscary being label as "W-H", or "Alexandrian Cult", because TTTU is not KJV Onlyism. But, TTU BELIEVES God's Word! Because TTU believes all doctrines comes from God's Word, either KJV or NKJV, both are same doctrine.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Askjo said-
MexDeaf, TTU is the W-H university. Do you know what I mean?
Yes, I know what you mean. I have a BA degree in Bible so I took two years of Greek and we did use the W-H Greek text....
... and I STILL believe the Bible is the holy, infallible, inspired, and unchangeable Word of God.
I had a good friend in the dorm who was a disciple of Ruckman. He shared a lot of Ruckman's stuff with me. But what really opened my eyes was when he shared a statement that Ruckman made in which he named several godly men, including Dr. Lee Roberson, and called them a**** because they 'did not believe that the KJV was the Word of God.' I told my friend at that time, thank you, I have heard enough. Anyone who can call godly men like Dr. Roberson a bad name like that is NOT someone I want to follow.
I still use the KJV when I am in the USA. Does not do me any good in Mexico, here I use the Reina Valera 1960.
I don't agree with TTU on everything. But then again some days I wake up and can't even agree with myself.
MexDeaf, TTU is the W-H university. Do you know what I mean?
Yes, I know what you mean. I have a BA degree in Bible so I took two years of Greek and we did use the W-H Greek text....
... and I STILL believe the Bible is the holy, infallible, inspired, and unchangeable Word of God.
I had a good friend in the dorm who was a disciple of Ruckman. He shared a lot of Ruckman's stuff with me. But what really opened my eyes was when he shared a statement that Ruckman made in which he named several godly men, including Dr. Lee Roberson, and called them a**** because they 'did not believe that the KJV was the Word of God.' I told my friend at that time, thank you, I have heard enough. Anyone who can call godly men like Dr. Roberson a bad name like that is NOT someone I want to follow.
I still use the KJV when I am in the USA. Does not do me any good in Mexico, here I use the Reina Valera 1960.
I don't agree with TTU on everything. But then again some days I wake up and can't even agree with myself.
You misunderstand the FACT about TTU. From 1950 to approx. 1980 TTU was the TR university. From 1980 to now TTU is W-H university. Why CHANGE?
Which side?
Well, should TTU use Catholic Greek text? Please answer.
Wrong! Not only Ruckman, there has a few groups of KJV only. I reject Peter Ruckman!!!!!
I read a 1800's book. It said: "What is the genuine Greek -- what the true Text of the New Testament? Which are the very words which were written by the Evangelists and Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ under the Inspiration of the Holy Ghost?"
Which side?
I invesitaged TTu and found which Greek course TTU used for teaching.
Reggie told me that he only use the KJV.
Am I Ruckmanite? Please answer.
Did I say that? If so, where?
Accuse me -- did I say that?
Forbid me if I warn anyone?
It is up to you.
In order to understand the difference between the W-H colleges and TR colleges is interpret DIFFERENTLY on the Word of God. Why are they not same is because of 2 sides: NATURALISTIC method AND CONSISTENTLY CHRISTIAN method.
YOU said the KJV and NKJV -- SAME doctrine. You are 100% WRONG! Look at KJV and NKJV for example, Acts 12:4. The KJV and the NKJV DISAGREE each other on this verse.
Ruckman's stuffs? Sorry, I do not buy Ruckman's belief upon the KJV.Originally posted by Mexdeaf:
Askjo said-
MexDeaf, TTU is the W-H university. Do you know what I mean?
Yes, I know what you mean. I have a BA degree in Bible so I took two years of Greek and we did use the W-H Greek text....
... and I STILL believe the Bible is the holy, infallible, inspired, and unchangeable Word of God.
I had a good friend in the dorm who was a disciple of Ruckman. He shared a lot of Ruckman's stuff with me. But what really opened my eyes was when he shared a statement that Ruckman made in which he named several godly men, including Dr. Lee Roberson, and called them a**** because they 'did not believe that the KJV was the Word of God.' I told my friend at that time, thank you, I have heard enough. Anyone who can call godly men like Dr. Roberson a bad name like that is NOT someone I want to follow.
I still use the KJV when I am in the USA. Does not do me any good in Mexico, here I use the Reina Valera 1960.
I don't agree with TTU on everything. But then again some days I wake up and can't even agree with myself.
Askjo said:
In order to understand the difference between the W-H colleges and TR colleges is interpret DIFFERENTLY on the Word of God. Why are they not same is because of 2 sides: NATURALISTIC method AND CONSISTENTLY CHRISTIAN method.
Askjo, Please define your terms here. I am not familiar with these terms.
Also if you reject Peter Ruckman what is your difference with him concerning the Word of God? It appears that you are KJVO also.
In order to understand the difference between the W-H colleges and TR colleges is interpret DIFFERENTLY on the Word of God. Why are they not same is because of 2 sides: NATURALISTIC method AND CONSISTENTLY CHRISTIAN method.
Askjo, Please define your terms here. I am not familiar with these terms.
Also if you reject Peter Ruckman what is your difference with him concerning the Word of God? It appears that you are KJVO also.
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Askjo,
Reggie Rempel, Terry Buchholz, Fred Adams(he didn't graduated TTU) were students at TTU. Today, all of them always use KJV all the times.
I was member at Deaf Missionary Baptist Church(now Sword Deaf Church) under Fred Adams (1992-1995). He is very strong stand and support KJV 100%. Funny, I remember when I took institute class with Fred Adams as my teacher. He taught about Bible, I think the class is about Manuscript, not sure. Anyway. Fred said, "Many saying KJV is inspiration. No, KJV is not inspiration, 1611 A.V. is truly inspiration." Fred's teaching does not make a sense to me. Both are inspiration to me. Understand, 1611 A.V. and KJV both are only English Bible, as different language, just only translated from Hebrews/Greek. So, people in Great Britian can read God's Word in their own language.
Also, I notice Fred Adams is more close KJV Onlylist. Because he stand KJV 100%, not use any versions.
Terry Buccholz is not KJV Onlyist. He always preaching from KJV all the times. My friend told me, his pastor(Terry) learned from TTU that, the professor said, that KJV have some errors. Hard to explain to you deep. Askjo, why not you talk and discuss with Terry Buccholz on this issue, what he learned from the professor at TTU on KJV?
Reggie Remple is NOT KJV Onlyism. Reggie and I did talking lot on KJV. Reggie always use KJV for teaching and preaching all the time. Reggie did told students at Harvest Deaf Bible College, require use KJV for classes and go to church.
But, Reggie does not push members at deaf church for use KJV. He told the members, that many deaf have hard times to read King James Version. He allow deaf to use other Version like NKJV, NIV, etc. Reggie often said, he considers, NIV, Living Bible, etc. these are co called, "Commentary". He strong believes KJV is God's Word.
Reggie knows Ruckman well. He disrespects him because of divisions, bad testimony, etc.
Reggie's wife, she admits use NKJV all the times when read at home. She says, NKJV make her feel comfortable and able to understand God's Word. Understand, both Reggie and his wife actual support KJV 100%.
Ruckman easily criticize against his brothers of Christ, baptist colleges, baptist churches for not use KJV or not believe KJV is inspiration, etc. Actually, Ruckman caused many baptist churches into divisions because of issue.
Many professors, pastors, missionaries who graduated from TTU, are not interesting in attacks, criticizes about manuscript issue and KJV issue too. They focus on God's Word, witness lost souls for Christ.
Askjo, I never saying that you are Ruckmanite. You jump the consequence, be careful what you saying.
So far I know none of members at baptistboard, claim, "I am Ruckmanite." Also, none of members at Baptistboard who label or named other member, "You are Ruckmanite".
Many of us know Ruckman well.
Askjo, you just bring W-H up upon TTU issue, because it is partially of KJV issue relate with Ruckman. And I know you are NOT "Ruckmanite". I never saying that you are Ruckmanite for 2 years since you talked to me in baptistboard shortly after you were shocked of me announced at DBFA 2003 in Grand Rapids, MI.
Askjo,
Mexdeaf and I both would like to know where did you get the information that TTU was used TR college from 1950's to around 1980. Then TTU introduced W-H in year between 1980's to present. Thanks.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Reggie Rempel, Terry Buchholz, Fred Adams(he didn't graduated TTU) were students at TTU. Today, all of them always use KJV all the times.
I was member at Deaf Missionary Baptist Church(now Sword Deaf Church) under Fred Adams (1992-1995). He is very strong stand and support KJV 100%. Funny, I remember when I took institute class with Fred Adams as my teacher. He taught about Bible, I think the class is about Manuscript, not sure. Anyway. Fred said, "Many saying KJV is inspiration. No, KJV is not inspiration, 1611 A.V. is truly inspiration." Fred's teaching does not make a sense to me. Both are inspiration to me. Understand, 1611 A.V. and KJV both are only English Bible, as different language, just only translated from Hebrews/Greek. So, people in Great Britian can read God's Word in their own language.
Also, I notice Fred Adams is more close KJV Onlylist. Because he stand KJV 100%, not use any versions.
Terry Buccholz is not KJV Onlyist. He always preaching from KJV all the times. My friend told me, his pastor(Terry) learned from TTU that, the professor said, that KJV have some errors. Hard to explain to you deep. Askjo, why not you talk and discuss with Terry Buccholz on this issue, what he learned from the professor at TTU on KJV?
Reggie Remple is NOT KJV Onlyism. Reggie and I did talking lot on KJV. Reggie always use KJV for teaching and preaching all the time. Reggie did told students at Harvest Deaf Bible College, require use KJV for classes and go to church.
But, Reggie does not push members at deaf church for use KJV. He told the members, that many deaf have hard times to read King James Version. He allow deaf to use other Version like NKJV, NIV, etc. Reggie often said, he considers, NIV, Living Bible, etc. these are co called, "Commentary". He strong believes KJV is God's Word.
Reggie knows Ruckman well. He disrespects him because of divisions, bad testimony, etc.
Reggie's wife, she admits use NKJV all the times when read at home. She says, NKJV make her feel comfortable and able to understand God's Word. Understand, both Reggie and his wife actual support KJV 100%.
Ruckman easily criticize against his brothers of Christ, baptist colleges, baptist churches for not use KJV or not believe KJV is inspiration, etc. Actually, Ruckman caused many baptist churches into divisions because of issue.
Many professors, pastors, missionaries who graduated from TTU, are not interesting in attacks, criticizes about manuscript issue and KJV issue too. They focus on God's Word, witness lost souls for Christ.
Askjo, I never saying that you are Ruckmanite. You jump the consequence, be careful what you saying.
So far I know none of members at baptistboard, claim, "I am Ruckmanite." Also, none of members at Baptistboard who label or named other member, "You are Ruckmanite".
Many of us know Ruckman well.
Askjo, you just bring W-H up upon TTU issue, because it is partially of KJV issue relate with Ruckman. And I know you are NOT "Ruckmanite". I never saying that you are Ruckmanite for 2 years since you talked to me in baptistboard shortly after you were shocked of me announced at DBFA 2003 in Grand Rapids, MI.
Askjo,
Mexdeaf and I both would like to know where did you get the information that TTU was used TR college from 1950's to around 1980. Then TTU introduced W-H in year between 1980's to present. Thanks.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Askjo said, "YOU said the KJV and NKJV -- SAME doctrine. You are 100% WRONG! Look at KJV and NKJV for example, Acts 12:4. The KJV and the NKJV DISAGREE each other on this verse."
KJV-
4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. {Easter: Gr. Passover} {quaternions: a file of four soldiers} (KJV)
NKJV-
4 So when he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him, intending to bring him before the people after Passover. (NKJV)
My question... WHAT DOCTRINE IS TAUGHT HERE?
KJV-
4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. {Easter: Gr. Passover} {quaternions: a file of four soldiers} (KJV)
NKJV-
4 So when he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him, intending to bring him before the people after Passover. (NKJV)
My question... WHAT DOCTRINE IS TAUGHT HERE?