Tennessee Titans; Vince Young

[Alcott]

I'm not sure what needs to be said on this board about this situation, but it seems there is everything in the world being said on sports and NFL boards.

VY, known to be very frustrated by the complexities and pressures of being an NFL QB since before he was drafted in 2006, has a sub-par 1st game-- but a WIN, nevertheless-- suffers a knee injury, and is booed by fans for poor performance and a bad interception. He presence is unaccounted for a few hours, and someone calles the Titans management, which gets the police in on it, indicating his mental state is at least doubtful. He is found in a short time-- nothing really wrong, but an unloaded gun was in his vehicle. The facts get a little fuzzy then, but the Titans say he is alright, but his mama gives an interview asking "What would you do if...[you were persecuted, treated unfairly]..." and refers to him as her "baby boy."

Meanwhile, the extent of his injury has to be determined, and the Titans only have one backup QB (veteran Kerry Collins) on active roster, so they consider 3 or 4 free agents, and sign Chris Simms, who was told by the Patriots that they were "going another direction" after calling him in for a workout and physical, and had thought he would end up at Kansas City this week. As of this moment, coach Jeff Fisher has said that Simms did not workout today [is his physical evaluation taking longer than expected?] and refused to answer further questions as to whether VY is continuing to be psychologically examined.

Titan fans seem to have completely forgotten their team WON that first games, and are just saying Young is "through" there, he is "head case" and "not a team player." And another facet is emerging about signing Simms. I have seen one post saying "Only the Titans would try to solve the problem of a QB who is a head-case from (University of) Texas by signing another head-case QB from Texas." Then the news comes that VY will be out "2 to 4 weeks" with ligament damage, and some say they are "praying" that Simms will not have to go in to a game, while some think it's inevitable that a 14-year veteran will have to be relieved and that he (Collins) is only going to start for the present because he knows the playbook. And, of course, many or most Titan fans are also Vol fans, and have never forgiven Simms for backing out on his commitment to U-Tennessee to go to U-Texas.

Finally, this afternoon a sportstalk radio station made this the subject and one commentator claimed he knows several NFL scouts who refuse to go to U-Texas to evaluate players, because under Mack Brown's program they are "pampered" and "treated like kings" unlike any other bigtime campus, and thus the NFL never gets the ability that they show there when they come in as hazed rookies instead of privileged icons. And one must wonder if there isn't something to all that-- Ricky Williams is a case study by himself, Shaun Rogers and (WR) Roy Williams have been good, not great, and plagued by injuries, several other players have been less than expected-- Quentin Jammer, Cory Redding, et al. But there have been a few in the opposite direction, so far better than expected, such as Selvin Young and Aaron Ross, and maybe Bo Scaife, another Titan.

So, the questions that can arise from this...
How easy is it to 'ruin' an NFL QB with too much pressure and criticism? I'm sure there aren't many who want to see VY become another type of Jeff Geoge or Ryan Leaf.
Are the expectations of fans unfair in the first place for almost any QB? Either he plays (not just posts a win) like a star or he gets booed.
Are unfair associations made about certain college programs; i.e, that if some players from there don't meet expectations, that should be a mark against others from the same.
And, how much should media report on personal and 'inside' matters of professional athletes and interview family members?-- knowing they go for copy, what is sensational, what is peculiarly expressed, rather than what appears ordinary.

 

[Sly Fox]

I have been around every name you mentioned in that post and I can assure you that there is a measure of pampering that goes on at UT. But any scout who claims to refuse to look at Longhorns is either lying or ignorant. I've been there on Pro Timing Day when all 32 teams are represented.

There is a level irony that Chris is now backing up Vince in Nashville with Major just down the road in Tuscaloosa.

And yes Vince's family is 100% dependent on Vince and as a result they are constantly doing whatever they can to keep his/their interests placated.

 

[ccrobinson]

How easy is it to 'ruin' an NFL QB with too much pressure and criticism? I'm sure there aren't many who want to see VY become another type of Jeff Geoge or Ryan Leaf.

Depends on the QB. For example, Eli Manning has had a ton of pressure and criticism and has handled it pretty well. I don't think the comparison of Vincent Young to Jeff George or Ryan Leaf is fair. By all accounts, George and Leaf were/are enormous jerks and I haven't heard anything about Vinny being a jerk.

 

[Alcott]

I have been around every name you mentioned in that post and I can assure you that there is a measure of pampering that goes on at UT. But any scout who claims to refuse to look at Longhorns is either lying or ignorant. I've been there on Pro Timing Day when all 32 teams are represented.

The pro scout [anonomous, of course] that the commentator was quoting was saying the he will not go to the UTexas campus, but there is always another from is team that will do that job, who probably has less choice.

There is a level irony that Chris is now backing up Vince in Nashville with Major just down the road in Tuscaloosa.

If you mean Major Applewhite, he is now on the UTexas staff as running backs coach and assistant head coach.

 

[TomVols]

Well, take two. This is the second time I'll type all this:

CCROB can probably speak to this more than I can since he hears more midstate radio, but he's too busy kicking my tail at Fantasy Baseball, so I'll give it a shot:

1, Vols fans are not primarily Titans fans. East TN Vol fans are Colts fans, followed by Titans fans, then Bengals and a few Falcons fans. There is a perception that the Titans belong to the midstate or weststate and they are not an East TN team.

2. Chris Simms is not disliked in East TN because he snubbed the Vols. He did the smart thing. He would've been behind Peyton and Tee while Clausen & Suggs had the upper hand already on the team. Now, what people don't like about both of the Simms guys is their attitude. Talk swirls of how they high-handed the University and did not handle their recruitment well. I lived for years near where Phil grew up. He has a reputation there and it bore out down here.

3. The Titans did win Sunday....in spite of Vince. Look at his numbers. Look at his numbers last year. That brought on the booing. As I understand, VY has not endeared himself to the community and has not done the caravans he was supposed to do. He's a bit aloof, or allegedly comes off that way. It's not fair, but he's following Steve McNair. Loved by the Titans community, anyone who doesn't have his people skills are in trouble.

VY hasn't proven himself to be a pro-style QB. Now, I believe Mike Heimerdinger should have a year or two to groom him (Norm Chow was badly miscast as an NFL OC). But statistically, the comparisons to Leaf may be more accurate. No question Leaf was the bigger jerk because he played the media when he was the bonus baby and then bit the media when they turned on him. I see more Heath Shuler in VY than I do George or Leaf. VY is physically gifted as was Shuler, but Shuler didn't have the brains to be an NFL QB. I still question if VY's got the ability to be a stellar NFL QB. Then again, he doesn't have to be. Heck, Rex Grossman got to a SB. Trent Dilfer has a SB ring. Kurt Warner does too.

4. I've heard an awful lot about the pampering at Texas and that Mack Brown keeps his players bubble wrapped with kid gloves always in full supply. Maybe something's true. Maybe not.

5. VY on Monday allegedly mentioned quitting football and suicide several times in talks with Titans officials. Lord only knows what he said to the psychologist. And his "disappearance" was for hours, not just a half hour or so. There is also significant speculation that VY's story did not check out (At a friend's house eating chicken wings). Not to turn this into a soap opera (oops...too late) but it is what it is. Should the Titans have called in the Marines? No. Did the Titans' FO overreact? Maybe. But how hard would it have been for VY to just answer his cell phone he allegedly had on his person to say "Yes, Coach?" and that would've been that.

I am not a Titans' fan. But I do mildly root for/follow them. So I'm torn Sunday. One half, I'll wear a Titans hat, the Second half I'll wear some Bengals garb

 

[ccrobinson]

The only Tennessee sports radio that I listen to that's specifically Tennessee is the Tom Abraham show when I leave work. I'd rather be listening to 670 The Score out of Chicago, but that's not possible. I do get to listen to ESPN 1000 at work and while I don't care for their afternoon show, I've come to really like Tom Waddle's show. Anyway, on to Vincent.

Vols fans are not primarily Titans fans.

I think there's one major reason for this. To be a Titans fan means you have to root against the Colts. No Vols fan is going to root against Peyton. They'll happily hate on the Jaguars, but not Peyton and the Colts. It will be interesting to see what happens with Titans fans once Peyton retires several years from now.

VY hasn't proven himself to be a pro-style QB.

This is very true, but it wasn't like this was an unknown. There were questions about his mechanics and accuracy before the draft.

I still question if VY's got the ability to be a stellar NFL QB.

Before last season, did anybody think Eli Manning was going to be a SB winning QB? He did/does have accuracy problems even now.

There is also significant speculation that VY's story did not check out

Oh yeah, his story was pretty much ripped apart on the aforementioned T Abraham show on Thursday. Much of it didn't make sense.

I see more Heath Shuler in VY than I do George or Leaf.

I didn't see Shuler play, but I think an apt comparison for Vinny would be with Donovan McNabb. Donovan was primarily a running QB with accuracy problems when he came into the league. Over the years, he's become a very effective pocket passer.

I am not a Titans' fan. But I do mildly root for/follow them.

I follow them only because I have the Titans D on one of my fantasy teams and Chris Johnson on a couple of others. As much as the Bears have been a disappointment over the years, they're still my team.

 

[TomVols]

As for Vol fans not wanting to root against Peyton, there's a shred of truth to that. However, East Tennesseeans have never embraced the Oilers/Titans even prior to Peyton's entry to the NFL. The TN Oilers started out in Memphis. Then they reneged on the last year there to hastily move to Nashville. Well, the Titans name was picked up but the old Oiler color scheme was kept and that rankled some. So the Memphians were upset that they lost their team and the Midstaters felt upset that they didn't get the team as quickly as promised, and the East staters feel like they've never had a true TN team because the team refuses to play a preseason game in Knoxville.

And believe it or not, you have a small contingent of UT fans who do not appreciate Peyton. Most are not East Tennesseeans. But there are some dou....I mean, not very bright people who feel this way.

As for Eli Manning, I think there are people who felt he always had an NFL skill set. VY has as many detractors in this area as advocates. And Donovan McNabb IMHO had a better head and arm in college than in the NFL. His ability to see things on the field has never been questioned. He saw them early on...he just ignored them so he could tuck and run. VY's ability to read D's, check down, etc., has been questioned from day one until now. Bottom line: VY threw almost double the INTS to TD passes last year. Thus, he hasn't ingratiated himself on the field (or off) to Titans fans. But Mike will do well with him. He's the OC that led the Titans to the Super Bowl and to the playoff runs of earlier this decade.

I'm a Tennessee guy, but as a childhood Bengals fan, I just can't shake them. And I can't get past the fact that I'm rooting for the Oilers. But Mike Keith (Titans voice) got his start here and I have an affection for the team. It really is a hard call for me. Nevermind that I can be at Paul Brown stadium faster than I can LP Field.

And then, there;s the whole Bud Adams thing and how now Gov. Bredesen cozied up when he was Nashville's mayor.....still left a bitter taste in many Tennesseans' mouths.

I'd give up the Titans before I'd give up my Predators, and I know many who believe like I do. We didn't take them from anyone, and weren't about to lose them last year. Really proud we kept them on Ole Hockey Top! :thumbs:

 

[ccrobinson]

I'm a Tennessee guy, but as a childhood Bengals fan, I just can't shake them.

My condolences. :tongue3:

And I can't get past the fact that I'm rooting for the Oilers.

I'll always think of them as the Oilers also.

The Titans have unveiled some sort of ring of honor at LP Field. Every player in the "ring of honor" is a former Houston Oiler, like Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, etc. Steve McNair and Eddie George would be the obvious choices for something like this, but they aren't in it because they're not Hall of Famers. Seems strange to me to have a ring of honor for a franchise in Tennessee that includes players that didn't play pro football in Tennessee.

I'd give up the Titans before I'd give up my Predators, and I know many who believe like I do.

That's the general feeling I've gotten from listening to sports radio around here. Not that the local ESPN station doesn't talk about them, or feature them, or anything like that. The local ESPN radio station promotes the heck out of the Titans. There's a thought that the lack of diehard fans has something to do with not having a generation of fans having grown up with a team, and maybe there's something to that, but I'm not entirely sure that's it. After all, the Predators have been here for fewer years than the Titans (at least I think they have) and they have more diehard fans than the Titans do.

When the Oilers left Houston and started changing stadiums seemingly every other year, I started feeling like they were nothing but transients. Even after 10 years in Nashville, it's hard to shake the feeling that the Titans are little more than transients, that they could pick up at any time and go somewhere like Los Angeles.

You know what the worst thing about that would be?

I don't think many here would miss them all that much.

 

[ccrobinson]

Here's a couple of items about Vinny Young.

Adam Schefter reported today on NFL Network’s NFL GameDay Morning that during last season’s AFC Wild Card game against San Diego, Young wanted to stop playing at halftime and had to be persuaded to take the field with his teammates in the second half.

This next one is from Peter King's MMQB.

One final quote about Young, from someone I'll call Deep Titan, someone inside the organization: "Vince definitely is going to have to win the locker room back. As bad as Pacman was when he left the building or at 3 o'clock in the morning, it never interfered with his football. He loved football. Loved practice. The guys loved him. Players are going to be on your side if you show that you're going to help them win. Vince has to prove that to this team.''

Yikes on both counts.

 

[TomVols]

I've heard a lot of that too. Combine that with the fact that Fisher today practically named Kerry Collins (Kerry Collins??) the forseeable future QB for the Titans, and VY is in trouble.

When you saw VY and Matt Leinart battle it out at the Rose Bowl for the national title, did you think they'd be NFL backups to aging QBs?

(yeah, I did too).

The Predators were won to Nashville without sweetheart deals and without having to steal a team from another city, even if that city rejected them (Houston Oilers). People are a lot like me. They resent Bud Adams. They resent Bredesen's handling of the deal and the gelt thrown Adams way. They resent being forced to root for another franchise basically. McNair, George, Wycheck, Matthews, etc. all endeared themselves to the community. Hard to find anyone presently on the team that really does a lot for the community save for Kevin Mawae (unless you count all that time they spend doing community service that's court ordered or stimulating the mid-state economy by paying court costs and fines).

There was a lot of early excitement for the team. But the more we see the team honor Oilers greats, the more we see the Predators committed to the community, and the more we see less of the community caravans, etc., the more the "state's NFL team" feels less so.

Plus, remember that TN is a tough state geographically. Almost 500 miles corner to corner. I'm closer to the Bengals, Falcons, and Panthers than I am the Tennessee Titans. Mike Keith and Pat Ryan vocally tried to make this team the state's team. Now, it's as if they want it to belong to the mid-state, north AL, and sc KY, with some West TN and extreme parts of Missou to boot.

Granted, the Predators have the advantage of being in a hockey town (you heard me right). The Preds predecessors enjoyed huge success. Knoxville's ECHL franchise has won two of the last three of their league's titles and leads their league in attendance. Hockey plays well here. And the Preds have marketed themselves well throughout the state, including hockey fan rich East TN. And just the little thing of the Preds colors invoking state/local Universitites while the Titans are the colors of the Oilers gives a little symbol that speaks much more loudly.

I appreciate the condolences about the Bengals. I'm looking forward to the day Carl Pickens and David Klingler stop dressing up like Ocho Cinco and Palmer and playing in this season's games. Maybe then we can get somewhere :thumbs:

 

[ccrobinson]

remember that TN is a tough state geographically.

Depends on who's doing the marketing. Illinois is a little longer from north to south than Tennessee is from east to west, but the Bears have no problem marketing to southern Illinois, even though once you're past Peoria to the south, you're closer to the St Louis and Indianapolis than you are Chicago.

And just the little thing of the Preds colors invoking state/local Universitites while the Titans are the colors of the Oilers gives a little symbol that speaks much more loudly.

I think this is no little thing. I think that if the Baltimore Ravens had kept their colors from Cleveland, they wouldn't be accepted at all by Baltimore fans (assuming, of course, that they actually are).

I'm looking forward to the day Carl Pickens and David Klingler stop dressing up like Ocho Cinco and Palmer and playing in this season's games.

I don't think the Bengals will be good until Mike Brown is no longer in charge.

 

[TomVols]

Mike sure does seem like he wants to run the team into the ground Paul has to be doing gymnastics in his grave. That last good thing he did was Paul Brown Stadium. At the same time, that venue is more of an architectural work than it is a sports venue. Not that the two are mutually exclusive, but one always trumps the other.

As far as the comparison to Illinois, that's a little uneven as far as a comparison. There's history involved here, both ways. At one time, it was discussed that Tennessee was too large of a state and should be divided up along the three grand divisions. You also have varying terrain and culture in the grand divisions. The identity of the people in each grand division is ingrained in the texture of the people. I will not argue that the marketing has slipped for the Titans. They used to do much better. Hiring Mike Keith and Pat Ryan to do the radio was a great move. However, only Mike Keith remains, and I know he's been frustrated at the retraction in marketing efforts. And the Chicago Bears? They have far more history than the Titans could ever dream about having. No wonder people want to identify with them.

The colors are indeed major. Huge coup for the Predators to include the colors (intentionally) of UT, Vandy, Tn Tech, MTSU, Belmont, and Tn State. Heck, just having Orange in there got them halfway home.

Speaking of the Ravens...wasn't there a contractural or legal obligation to change the name/colors?