Terrorism, Racism, and identifying groups

[JonC]

President Trump made an interesting statement the other day. He denounced white supremist groups and went one step further to say that he will designate the KKK as a terrorist group. I think that we would all agree that probably the first and at least the second KKK organization was a terrorist group, and that even within the current iteration (at least as late as 1991) members have engaged in terroristic activities.

The KKK as an organization advocates racism and racist ideologies. The question is not whether these groups act in a racist manner but whether their action constitutes terrorism.

What are the benefits of designating groups, such as the KKK, as terrorist organizations? What are the dangers? Are there implications should the criteria be expanded beyond racism?

 

[Benjamin]

I don't hear of the KKK committing violent acts and rioting and if they did I believe it would be all over the news. On the other hand Antifa is rioting, looting and committing all kinds of violence against private citizens and the police.

That said, in reply to Trumps' calling Antifa along with the KKK terrorists, Biden says that Antifa is just an ideology and and not an organization. Therefore, I would say yes, declare the KKK and Antifa terrorists organizations and would suggest that the organization that would be most affected by strict laws against violence would be Antifa. - Declaring both terrorists is a smart move and in truth will expose the Left's hypocrisy.

 

[Quantrill]

President Trump made an interesting statement the other day. He denounced white supremist groups and went one step further to say that he will designate the KKK as a terrorist group. I think that we would all agree that probably the first and at least the second KKK organization was a terrorist group, and that even within the current iteration (at least as late as 1991) members have engaged in terroristic activities.

The KKK as an organization advocates racism and racist ideologies. The question is not whether these groups act in a racist manner but whether their action constitutes terrorism.

What are the benefits of designating groups, such as the KKK, as terrorist organizations? What are the dangers? Are there implications should the criteria be expanded beyond racism?

Why start such a thread when the hands of others who may disagree with you are tied?

If I were to object and support racism and the KKK, then the thread will be locked, especially if I provide a good argument.

Such a thread is just an effort to expound ones own personal view, and let others who agree jump on the bandwagon and hammer those KKK racists and terrorist's to death.

But, don't let anyone disagree here. Cause you know what that means.

Anyone remember Pavlov's dog?

Quantrill

 

[JonC]

Why start such a thread when the hands of others who may disagree with you are tied?

If I were to object and support racism and the KKK, then the thread will be locked, especially if I provide a good argument.

Such a thread is just an effort to expound ones own personal view, and let others who agree jump on the bandwagon and hammer those KKK racists and terrorist's to death.

But, don't let anyone disagree here. Cause you know what that means.

Anyone remember Pavlov's dog?

Quantrill

What is probably obvious is the fact I have not expressed my views. I take it you are wondering why. The reason is I know my opinions already and am interested in the views of others.

Another obvious fact is I have not offered anything to agree or disagree with. I have neither condemned the KKK nor advocated the group. My questions concern what constitutes "terrorism" and what implications may follow based on ones view of terrorism.

 

[JonC]

I don't hear of the KKK committing violent acts and rioting and if they did I believe it would be all over the news. On the other hand Antifa is rioting, looting and committing all kinds of violence against private citizens and the police.

That said, in reply to Trumps' calling Antifa along with the KKK terrorists, Biden says that Antifa is just an ideology and and not an organization. Therefore, I would say yes, declare the KKK and Antifa terrorists organizations and would suggest that the organization that would be most affected by strict laws against violence would be Antifa. - Declaring both terrorists is a smart move and in truth will expose the Left's hypocrisy.

If the KKK is not committing terroristic acts then on what grounds would the organization be called a "terrorist group"?

 

[Quantrill]

What is probably obvious is the fact I have not expressed my views. I take it you are wondering why. The reason is I know my opinions already and am interested in the views of others.

Another obvious fact is I have not offered anything to agree or disagree with. I have neither condemned the KKK nor advocated the group. My questions concern what constitutes "terrorism" and what implications may follow based on ones view of terrorism.

So you say.

What is obvious is that the hands of others are tied concerning this subject. So why even bring it up. Unless it goes one way, it will be locked.

Quantrill

 

[JonC]

So you say.

What is obvious is that the hands of others are tied concerning this subject. So why even bring it up. Unless it goes one way, it will be locked.

Quantrill

I think you are making things up or missing the topic entirely. That is an opinion...probably more of an educated guess.

 

[just-want-peace]

So you say.

What is obvious is that the hands of others are tied concerning this subject. So why even bring it up. Unless it goes one way, it will be locked.

Quantrill

I personally would like for you t expound a bit on this premise, as I really have no idea where this came from. Thanks!!!

 

[JonC]

I just wonder when an idea, even a wrong idea, becomes a crime. Is it OK for a government to denounce racism in thought as if it were a racist motivated terroristic act? What about racist speech? Should a government curtail speech based on its content?

 

[just-want-peace]

I just wonder when an idea, even a wrong idea, becomes a crime. Is it OK for a government to denounce racism in thought as if it were a racist motivated terroristic act? What about racist speech? Should a government curtail speech based on its content?

Let Joe win, and this will be the standard.

 

[Roy]

The KKK is a factor in today's environment as much as Attila The Hun is. They are footnotes in history.

 

[Reynolds]

President Trump made an interesting statement the other day. He denounced white supremist groups and went one step further to say that he will designate the KKK as a terrorist group. I think that we would all agree that probably the first and at least the second KKK organization was a terrorist group, and that even within the current iteration (at least as late as 1991) members have engaged in terroristic activities.

The KKK as an organization advocates racism and racist ideologies. The question is not whether these groups act in a racist manner but whether their action constitutes terrorism.

What are the benefits of designating groups, such as the KKK, as terrorist organizations? What are the dangers? Are there implications should the criteria be expanded beyond racism?

The KKK is in essence terrorist group. It's just not a traditional terrorist group in the way we think of terrorists. It's now more militia and militia training than its traditional activities. It was founded to terrorize carpet baggers. It evolved into using fear and intimidation to terrorize blacks and Jews.

 

[JonC]

The KKK is in essence terrorist group. It's just not a traditional terrorist group in the way we think of terrorists. It's now more militia and militia training than its traditional activities. It was founded to terrorize carpet baggers. It evolved into using fear and intimidation to terrorize blacks and Jews.

I agree.

But my point is where do we draw the line between ideas and actions in defining a group and at what point does the government step in? Is it with what is left of the KKK, the Proud Boys, BLM, ect? Or is terroristic action a necessity (like with Antifa)?

Are offensive ideas enough, or do they have to be spoken? Is speech enough or is more severe action the criteria?

Should people be able to express offensive ideas?

(My questions do not really have anything to do with the kkk, but principles governing offensive ideas, speech, and actions).

 

[church mouse guy]

The KKK was infiltrated by the FBI in the 1960s and destroyed at that time. Trump is just playing politics since the KKK as a threat ended more than half a century ago.

Trump really did nothing but will get credit for doing something and the Dems dare not say a word one way or another. The KKK was the military arm of the Dems for 100 years. Now it is Antifa and BLM working for the Dems with a lot of money from George $oro$.

 

[JonC]

The KKK was infiltrated by the FBI in the 1960s and destroyed at that time. Trump is just playing politics since the KKK as a threat ended more than half a century ago.

Trump really did nothing but will get credit for doing something and the Dems dare not say a word one way or another. The KKK was the military arm of the Dems for 100 years. Now it is Antifa and BLM working for the Dems with a lot of money from George $oro$.

I remember the KKK rallies on the square in Marietta GA in the 1970's and the KKK rallies in Pulaski TN in the 1980's. And those kkk guys caught trying to make a bomb in the 1990's. I suspect these are the folk Trump is talking about.

But today the issue would be racist groups like the Proud Boys, BLM, Arian nation, ect.

We have to remember, Trump & Biden are old guys. They see KKK and Black Panthers.

 

[church mouse guy]

I remember the KKK rallies on the square in Marietta GA in the 1970's and the KKK rallies in Pulaski TN in the 1980's. And those kkk guys caught trying to make a bomb in the 1990's. I suspect these are the folk Trump is talking about.

But today the issue would be racist groups like the Proud Boys, BLM, Arian nation, ect.

We have to remember, Trump & Biden are old guys. They see KKK and Black Panthers.

The proud boys were formed by Gavin McInnis. That's all I know about them. I think that they like to street fight antifa.

I still say the KKK was destroyed in the 1960s. They demonstrated in Indianapolis on the 1990s but they only mustered a handful of people. They endorsed Hillary in 2016. The Dems like them around I guess.

BLM is black Democrat & Antifa is white Democrat.

The Democrats will never denounce either Antifa or BLM. Neither will Greear and Moore.

 

[Reynolds]

I agree.

But my point is where do we draw the line between ideas and actions in defining a group and at what point does the government step in? Is it with what is left of the KKK, the Proud Boys, BLM, ect? Or is terroristic action a necessity (like with Antifa)?

Are offensive ideas enough, or do they have to be spoken? Is speech enough or is more severe action the criteria?

Should people be able to express offensive ideas?

(My questions do not really have anything to do with the kkk, but principles governing offensive ideas, speech, and actions).

I am not up to date on all the Federal Militia laws. They are complicated. I am quite sure the Klan is in violation of many of them.
IMO, you now have two main umbrellas of the Klan.
1. A group of rednecks who meet, drink beer, shoot the breeze, talk about ethnic groups, and go home to their trailer when they are good and drunk. They are harmless.
2. The group affiliated and aligned with Aryan Nation. They are very dangerous.

Group 1 has nothing to do with group 2 because 1 knows 2 is active in crime and 1 wants to talk but not act.

 

[Reynolds]

The KKK was infiltrated by the FBI in the 1960s and destroyed at that time. Trump is just playing politics since the KKK as a threat ended more than half a century ago.

Trump really did nothing but will get credit for doing something and the Dems dare not say a word one way or another. The KKK was the military arm of the Dems for 100 years. Now it is Antifa and BLM working for the Dems with a lot of money from George $oro$.

The Klan was reborn in the late 7ps and taken down again in the the early 90s. I know the U.C. agent who took down the KKKK.
It is, unfortunately, very alive today and rapidly growing. They learned their lesson during the last take down. They no longer unite into large national or regional groups. They are loosely aligned local and semi local cells. They are now insulated from huge take downs.

 

[church mouse guy]

The Klan was reborn in the late 7ps and taken down again in the the early 90s. I know the U.C. agent who took down the KKKK.
It is, unfortunately, very alive today and rapidly growing. They learned their lesson during the last take down. They no longer unite into large national or regional groups. They are loosely aligned local and semi local cells. They are now insulated from huge take downs.

What do you think of the Circuit Court overturning the death of RBG?

 

[Reynolds]

What do you think of the Circuit Court overturning the death of RBG?

I have no idea what you are talking about. You gonna have to bring me up to speed. Even Google didn't help.