salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
What is your view about this, What are the good and/or evil of including this in the worship service ?
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Testimony And Prayer Request In The Church
- Thread starter salzer mtn
- Start date
I think its a wonderful thing for people to share what God is doing in their lives. I think it is also important for us to share our needs so that people can pray for us, encourage us, and otherwise be used by God to edify the body.
This is essential if we are going to rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep.
However, that does not mean it should be chaotic. Having a specified time for this is good, allowing free reign is not.
This is essential if we are going to rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep.
However, that does not mean it should be chaotic. Having a specified time for this is good, allowing free reign is not.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
In the heading i put worship service in there for a reason. What does it mean to worship God in a worship service? The word worship means to honor or reverence, to idolize, to lift up, to adorn. IMO we are there to center all our attention on Him. We are not there to serve God but to worship God. This is my views on this subject not from speculation but from first hand experience. Testimony services can promote pride and boasting. Satan is always on the prowl and he would take advantage of us if he can. In your testimony has Satan ever patted you on the back after you made your talk and said, what a fine christain you are ? Boasting: How many times in your testimony do you use the word I ? After i have heard some people testify i wonder how God get's along without them. Testimony services can promote peer preasure. When i was a young christian i dreded these tesimonies because it seemed like everyone in the house felt like they had to say something for the Lord, and i felt like by me not saying anything that all eyes were on me. Prayer request: Is this not a form of complaining to others about your lot in life. Do i have aches and pains, everyone that get's old does. Do i have a cold, i should have stayed at home. Does not all of this draw attention to man instead of God. One scripture comes to mind on this subject Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. I know that whatever befalls me, God has ordained it for my good and His glory and he won't put on me more than i can bare. IMO people that have very special prayer request should go to their paster in private or form a prayer group out side the worship service of God. As far as dismissing the preaching to have testimony services the most important part of a worship service is to hear from God through the gospel by the man of God.
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We don't do it as a regular part of the service but there have been times that hubby has been led to do this in different ways and it's always been a blessing. Sometimes he's asked for a testimony from someone in particular, knowing the situation. Other times he's just asked people to call out specific prayer requests (like calling out the name of someone we're praying for them to receive Christ). It's really wonderful to hear how God is working in the lives of His people so I believe allowing particular testimonies at times is great.
But I do see how it being in the service weekly can end up being used as a gossip or bragging time. But a pastor listening to the Spirit will be able to handle it properly.
But I do see how it being in the service weekly can end up being used as a gossip or bragging time. But a pastor listening to the Spirit will be able to handle it properly.
Actually worship means to prostrate oneself. It is positional. We don't bow, usually, like they do in some cultures. Seeing as how we should be living lives of worship, based on Romans 12, I would suggest that every moment we should be acting, thinking, and speaking as creations in willful obedient subjection to our Creator.
What does that mean for this discussion? I can think of nothing more inline with worship than:
1. Sharing the joy that is found in the hands of our all gracious and loving God
2. Taking our cares to the throne of our all caring and all sufficient God
3. Joining our brothers and sisters in doing 1 and 2 together.
What does that mean for this discussion? I can think of nothing more inline with worship than:
1. Sharing the joy that is found in the hands of our all gracious and loving God
2. Taking our cares to the throne of our all caring and all sufficient God
3. Joining our brothers and sisters in doing 1 and 2 together.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
I tried to find your interpretaion of worship in the Webster dictionary and a bible dictionary i have but it's not in there. I don't think it is postional because one could not worship God except he include his body. The true worshipers worship God in spirit and in truth.
Here is the definition of the Hebrew word "shachah" which is used in Exodus 34:14 and many others.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7812&t=KJV
1) to bow down
a) (Qal) to bow down
b) (Hiphil) to depress (fig)
c) (Hithpael)
1) to bow down, prostrate oneself
a) before superior in homage
b) before God in worship
c) before false gods
d) before angel
In the New Testament when Jesus was responding to Satan, He used the term proskyneō which means:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4352&t=KJV
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
1) to the Jewish high priests
2) to God
3) to Christ
4) to heavenly beings
5) to demons
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4352&t=KJV
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
1) to the Jewish high priests
2) to God
3) to Christ
4) to heavenly beings
5) to demons
I am sorry for the confusion. These are using the Strong's Concordance.
Worship from Genesis 22:5 (which is the first use of the word)
H7812
שׁחה
shâchâh
shaw-khaw'
A primitive root; to depress, that is, prostrate (especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God): - bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.
Worship used in John 4:24
G4352
προσκυνέω
proskuneō
pros-koo-neh'-o
From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.
At this point in history Jesus is talking to the adulteress Samaritan woman at the well. He has just told her that He knows she has had 5 husbands and none of them are really hers. She recognizes Him as a prophet and then she asked about worship.
John 4:20 "Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."
John 4:21 Jesus *said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
John 4:22 "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
John 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
When the nation of Israel was split into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms the people in the North built a temple on Mount Gerizim so that they could worship without having to go to Jerusalem. The hostility between the Jews and Samaritans was intense and the Samaritans had decided that that needed to do something so that they could worship without being hassled by the Jews, So, here we have a Samaritan woman who wanted to know where Jesus would say was the right place to worship. However, He quickly cut through to the heart of the matter. The location does not matter. God wants true worshippers. If you remember back to Isaiah chapter 1 God ended up rejecting the acts of worship that the Israelites were doing that He had actually commanded of them. Why? Because they were sinning. They were committed to doing the actions that God had commanded of them but they were also worshipping false gods. They were not worshipping God in spirit and in truth. They maintained the mechanics of worship, and nothing more.
So, then, what does God want? What does it mean to worship in spirit and in truth?
Let’s define worship.
Worship is a life lived in response to something or someone that we value. When a teenage girls life revolves around a band or singer she is likely worshipping them. When she plasters her room with posters of her favorite band or singer she has probably made an idol of the person. When a man’s life revolves around a sport or a team or a hobby, he is probably worshipping that. Anytime we decide something is important enough to us that we allow it to impact many areas of our life we have made an idol out of it and we end up worshipping it. This is true of TV shows, hobbies, coffee, chocolate, alcohol, drugs and sex. We are called to worship God alone. He alone is worthy of impacting our whole lives like that. He deserves to be at the core of everything we do. Godly worship then is a life lived in response to all of who God is as God.
Let me ask you something….if all you had was God, would He be enough?
Let’s discuss the word spirit.
Real worship is a matter of the heart, and that is worshipping in spirit. Are you distracted by what you think is necessary, like the woman at the well asking about the proper location to worship? Is what the building and grounds look like more important to you? Is wearing certain clothes? Or maybe the types of songs we sing? Or where you sit?
John Piper uses the example of a he and his wife celebrating their anniversary. He shows up with a dozen beautiful long stem roses. He hands them to his bride, she smiles, he smiles and life is good right? Maybe it is, but maybe it isn’t. Why did he do it? If he brought her roses because of his love for her and he wanted to see her smile then he has done well. The heart is in it when he experiences the joy of bringing his bride joy. However, if he bought the roses and gave them to her simply because it was their anniversary and that was his duty then he has a problem. If she says, “Oh thank you, they are beautiful!” And he responds, “Don’t mention it. I was just doing my duty.” Well, John might need to camp out on a friends couch for a few days. Technically, according to generally accepted practices of our society, he may have done the right thing, but it was all wrong because of his motives. Our worship must come from a genuine affection and appreciation for who God is as God. He must be our treasure that we would sell everything to have. He must be so dear to us that we give up everyone and everything else in our lives just to be in His presence. Can you say your desire is like that of David?
Psa 27:4 One thing I have asked from the LORD, that I shall seek: That I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, To behold the beauty of the LORD And to meditate in His temple. (NASB)
Again I ask, if all you had was God, not all His gifts, just God….would He be enough for you?
Let’s talk about truth
Truth here refers to a sincerity of heart and mind. We cannot be double minded here. God deserves our praise and worship. We worship Him because we know Him to be God. We know Him to be the Creator and sustainer of all things. We know Him to be the One true God. We know our sinful state to have been real and that it disconnected us from God. We know that He came in the flesh as Jesus Christ. We know that He suffered and died and rose again to save us from sin and its consequences. We know that Jesus now sits at the right hand of God interceding for us as our one true and faithful mediator and great High Priest.
Is this true for you? Do you know all those things? Does knowing the truth of who you are and who God is drive you to respond to God with obedience, reverence, and praise?
In Isaiah chapter 1 the Israelites had their acts of worship rejected because they were not worshipping God in spirit and truth. He had become just another line on their spiritual “To-Do” list. The woman at the well was concerned about the location, but the work of Christ on the Cross was about to greatly impact the way people worshipped. Although, if we really understood God and the Old Testament we would already know that the heart and mind have always been the issue. Jesus talked of people who honor Him with their lips but their hearts are far from Him as recorded in Matthew 15 and Mark 7, and Jesus was quoting Isaiah 29:13. This is not a new problem.
So, we ask again, why are you here? Why are you singing, praying, attending a Bible study and hearing this sermon? Why are you giving? Why are you serving the people in your life? Are all these things just part of your “To-Do” list?
I have many people use the term “fake it til you make it” to describe a process they use in their lives. The idea is to do things like, act like your happy until you finally actually become happy. Or, do loving things for your spouse until you actually love them. Or, go through the motions of worshipping God until you actually have a genuine affection for Him. This simply does not work. If it did our churches would be full of people whose hearts are close to God. What we need is for God to change our hearts and enlighten our understanding and enable us to walk in a way that really honors Him.
The following passage from Ezekiel is talking of God’s plan to redeem His nation Israel, however it also shows us what God does in our own lives too.
Ezekiel 36:25-28 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. "You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God.
Maybe you need God change your heart? Maybe you are struggling with some matter of truth that is expressed in one doctrine or another and you need God to teach you the truth? Maybe you just feel far from God and you don’t know why. If we were honest we have all felt that way at times. You need Him to reveal the problem to you and help you deal with it. Actually we have all needed a change of heart and we all needed to come to know the truth.
LOL - We posted at the same time. :wavey:
LOL yep....does that mean you owe me a coke?
Sure! I just bought some since my kids drank all of mine!
BTW - GREAT words in the rest of your post.
Then great message! :wavey:
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
You people sure are above me, you see no evil, you speak no evil and you think no evil. you guys must already be living in your glorified bodies.
You...
...must have an opinion, or you would not have started this OP.
As for mine: I approve of this so long as it fits into what the spirit is ding at that time and place. I love testimonies in church: I don't necessarily like to be pointed out and put on the spot by the pastor to one if I don't feel prompted by the Holy Ghost, if you catch the drift? :thumbs:
...must have an opinion, or you would not have started this OP.
As for mine: I approve of this so long as it fits into what the spirit is ding at that time and place. I love testimonies in church: I don't necessarily like to be pointed out and put on the spot by the pastor to one if I don't feel prompted by the Holy Ghost, if you catch the drift? :thumbs:
An interesting response to your thread. Two sentences that speak much about your testimony/witness to our Saviour.
IMO, one of the most powerful forms of worship of our Lord is to give a heartfelt, Spirit led, testimony of God being active in our lives. To publically give God the glory. Such a testimony can be uplifting to others already in the body of Christ. It can give further reassurance to those who may still be undecided. And, at a miminum, it may give one of the lost, a pause to begin to listen to the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, there are some who give testimony primarily for reasons other than truly for worship of our Lord. Those intune with the Holy Spirit will usually recognize these for what they are. However, IMO, it's wrong to say these testimonies are without any merit. Simply because God can use anyone He chooses to reach a lost soul.
Alive in Christ
New Member
ABSOLUTLY!!!
One of the most important parts of our service!.
...and its one of the reasons I like small chuches over huge ones.
Nothing wrong in telling what the Lord has done for you, but I don't particularly want to hear what you are doing for The Lord