Thank Calvin for your freedom

[John Toppass]

This post sounds to me like the ones in Corinthians who said THEY were not of Paul or Apollos but of JESUS! They were just as wicked as the others except they were pompous and holier than thou too.

No one is exalting Calvin above God. There's not a word in any one of these posts that even slightly indicate such a thing.

Do you thank the troops for your freedom?

Do you celebrate Memorial Day?

If so, then you are as guilty of what you accuse as those you accuse.

The fact of the matter is that it is perfectly reasonable to thank people for what you have. Troops, George Washington and John Calvin are among those that you OUGHT to thank.

God does not look kindly on holier than thou attitudes which turn men into ingrates.

God gets all the glory for everything but his Word teaches us to be grateful for others he uses to contribute to what we have as well.

Could you give us some scripture that supports what you have said?

 

[Luke2427]

Could you give us some scripture that supports what you have said?

Give honor to whom honor is due. Romans 13:7

You give money to whom money is due.

You give fear to whom fear is due and honor to whom honor is due.

George Washington is due some respect and honor.

So is Martin Luther King Jr.

So are the troops who are right now fighting and dying for our way of life.

And so is Calvin who had more to do with the founding of this nation than any one man.

Give honor to whom honor is due.

To refuse is sin and rebellion against God.

To spit in Calvin's eye and refuse to honor his contributions is not a lot different than these Westboro morons who picket soldiers' funerals.

It is low down. I do not think the Maker who raised up these people to give us what we have thinks highly of it.

 

[Don]

...No one is exalting Calvin above God. There's not a word in any one of these posts that even slightly indicate such a thing....

Had a pastor once who somehow managed to talk about tithing in just about every sermon he preached. He and I were discussing a different subject, and he mentioned that someone had complained to him about how he was always preaching about tithing; he said he had gone back through all of his sermon titles for the entire last year, and there wasn't one single sermon on the subject of tithing.

 

[Fred's Wife]

You're darn right, Brother. I am proud to be an American. I am proud to be a Christian. I am proud to be a Calvinist. And I am proud of how prominantly those things interacted in the founding of this nation.

Why NOT be proud of the Calvinistic heritage of this country?

I am proud that Calvin is called the "father of America."

I am proud that the capitalistic system was founded upon the "Protestant Work Ethic" which came forth from Calvinistic teachings.

If you are jealous then switch over to the good side of the force.:smilewinkgrin:

You certainly do brag about your pride!

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 16:19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Growing up, I was taught in History class that George Washington held the title, "Father of America"

Now, Camp Calvin claims Calvin holds that title.

I think that title needs to go back farther in History... In the late 15th Century A.D., Columbus was said to be the discoverer of America. One could claim he rightly was the "Father of America."

But... prior to Columbus, History records trips to what is now called America by the Norse in 986 A.D.

Even though it is evident people visited prior to Columbus, I will stick with the History Books and go with Washington as the true "Father of America." It was he who was our first President.

 

[Luke2427]

You certainly do brag about your pride!

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 16:19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

So then you are NOT proud to be an American and a Christian????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Because if you are proud of ANYTHING then I can say the same derogatory remark about you.

 

[John Toppass]

Give honor to whom honor is due. Romans 13:7

You give money to whom money is due.

You give fear to whom fear is due and honor to whom honor is due.

George Washington is due some respect and honor.

So is Martin Luther King Jr.

So are the troops who are right now fighting and dying for our way of life.

And so is Calvin who had more to do with the founding of this nation than any one man.

Give honor to whom honor is due.

To refuse is sin and rebellion against God.

To spit in Calvin's eye and refuse to honor his contributions is not a lot different than these Westboro morons who picket soldiers' funerals.

It is low down. I do not think the Maker who raised up these people to give us what we have thinks highly of it.

I think that is a bit of a twist.

I know what you mean about the westboro morons.
Does this even mean you have to honor the personal heroes and idol of the morons that demand that you honor their personal heroes and idols?

 

[Fred's Wife]

So then you are NOT proud to be an American and a Christian????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Because if you are proud of ANYTHING then I can say the same derogatory remark about you.

Being an American and a Christian is nothing to boast about. The apostle Paul had plenty to boast about but his boasting was in Christ alone:

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Philippians 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Philippians 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Philippians 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Our boast is in the Lord alone:

Psalms 34:2 My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

Psalms 44:8 In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah.

BTW, John Calvin was NOT the "father of America"...George Washington was.

 

[Luke2427]

I think that is a bit of a twist.

Of course you do- but it is true regardless of your obstinance. You asked for Scripture to support honoring men and I gave Scripture that clearly does just that and it is STILL not good enough for you. So why go further?

I know what you mean about the westboro morons.
Does this even mean you have to honor the personal heroes and idol of the morons that demand that you honor their personal heroes and idols?

I don't understand that question. It sounds like you are calling me a moron but I am not sure.

It means what it says John. It means you should honor those to whom honor is due. It is not an opinion that Calvin contributed immensely to the founding of this nation we love- it is a historical FACT. Therefore he is due honor. You are to render it to him.

If you choose to continue to spit in this good man's eye then that is between you and your Maker who raised up Calvin, in part, to give you what you enjoy today.

Spit in Calvin's eye at your own peril. But you are mad if you think the Almighty is pleased with it.
God said "Give honor to whom honor is due."

This, no doubt, has a lot to do with the fact that by honoring those God raised up you honor the God who raised them up. When you honor my son you honor me.

And when you dishonor or REFUSE to give any respect or appreciation whatsoever to those God raises up- you dishonor GOD HIMSELF.

It is akin to what God told Abraham- I will bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you. This promise is not to Abraham alone, or to the Jews alone- it is to all of those who God raises up to serve Him- particularly those like Abraham and Calvin who do mighty things for God.

I honestly think that you bring the curse of God upon you when you refuse to appreciate Calvin, Abraham, George Washington, Martin Luther, the Apostle Paul, etc...

 

[Luke2427]

Being an American and a Christian is nothing to boast about. The apostle Paul had plenty to boast about but his boasting was in Christ alone:

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Philippians 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Philippians 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Philippians 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Our boast is in the Lord alone:

Psalms 34:2 My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

Psalms 44:8 In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah.

BTW, John Calvin was NOT the "father of America"...George Washington was.

Then you are NOT proud to be an American. That is AMAZING.

You are not proud to be ANYTHING- a child of God or anything.



There is no point in talking further with you.

This position of yours is ludicrous.

As to your statement about Calvin not being the father of America- share with us your historical education credentials- because well known historians say that HE WAS the founder of America.

 

[Don]

Then you are NOT proud to be an American. That is AMAZING.

You are not proud to be ANYTHING- a child of God or anything.



There is no point in talking further with you.

This position of yours is ludicrous.

As to your statement about Calvin not being the father of America- share with us your historical education credentials- because well known historians say that HE WAS the founder of America.

For someone who likes to point out when others are allegedly setting up strawmen -- this was a classic.

She never said she wasn't proud; she said it was nothing to boast about. As in, "not of works, lest any man should boast," ya know?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Proud to be American? Are you serious?

Have you watched the news lately? Parents killing children, children killing children, gay pride being taught to children in schools, the POtUS has practically destroyed the country, corrupt government leaders, ... the list goes on and on.

Proud to be American? Not hardly. Nowadays it is a shame to be American.

 

[TCassidy]

Proud to be American? Are you serious?

Have you watched the news lately? Parents killing children, children killing children, gay pride being taught to children in schools, the POtUS has practically destroyed the country, corrupt government leaders, ... the list goes on and on.

Proud to be American? Not hardly. Nowadays it is a shame to be American.

Feel free to leave. (I bet you and Fred Phelps would get along famously. Or you and Jeremiah Wright.)

 

[Luke2427]

For someone who likes to point out when others are allegedly setting up strawmen -- this was a classic.

She never said she wasn't proud; she said it was nothing to boast about. As in, "not of works, lest any man should boast," ya know?

Then her post was utterly pointless since NNE said that we should boast about ANYTHING.

The only way her posts makes any sense at all is if she is calling what I said we should be proud of- boasting.

She is calling it boasting or her whole post is pointless and nonsensical.

 

[Luke2427]

Proud to be American? Are you serious?

Have you watched the news lately? Parents killing children, children killing children, gay pride being taught to children in schools, the POtUS has practically destroyed the country, corrupt government leaders, ... the list goes on and on.

Proud to be American? Not hardly. Nowadays it is a shame to be American.

I am ashamed to call you an American then.

America is bigger than a handful of events that take place within her boundaries.

America is an ideal- it is a beacon of freedom that the whole world has fled to. It has been the greatest safe haven for the Church of Jesus Christ in the history of the world.

I think you ought to get a passport and be gone from here for good if you feel that way about America. You would do us all a big favor.

I know I am being harsh but I find it utterly untenable that someone would have the unmitigated gall to get on a website like this one where he can post freely anything he wants, a website called BAPTISTboard that has no fear of being taken offline in this country- that someone would come on here and SPIT on this nation. How dare you sir! You ought to be utterly ashamed of yourself.

If a moderator corrects me saying I am violating any bboard rules I will apologize for this post and humbly remove it. But I felt such ignorance and unthinkable ingratitude and despicable lack of patriotism as is displayed by this person ought to be confronted.

 

[Don]

Then her post was utterly pointless since NNE said that we should boast about ANYTHING.

The only way her posts makes any sense at all is if she is calling what I said we should be proud of- boasting.

She is calling it boasting or her whole post is pointless and nonsensical.

Nothing gets past you, does it?

 

[rbell]

Some of Luke's quotes on this page:

• I honestly think that you bring the curse of God upon you when you refuse to appreciate Calvin, Abraham, George Washington, Martin Luther, the Apostle Paul, etc...
• And so is Calvin who had more to do with the founding of this nation than any one man.
• Give honor to whom honor is due.
• To refuse is sin and rebellion against God.
• To spit in Calvin's eye and refuse to honor his contributions is not a lot different than these Westboro morons who picket soldiers' funerals.
• I am ashamed to call you an American then

Wow...where to start?

First, it's obvious that productive discussion won't happen here. You immediately launch into ad hominems and name-calling.
You throw verbal grenades--attacking the person rather than the position.

There have been several attempts to discuss with you the disagreement that many have with your concept that Calvin was not just influential--but that somehow he was the Father of our Country.

You are simply unwilling, however, to discuss it maturely.

Furthermore--in what universe is disagreeing with you about Calvin "spitting in his eye?"
I don't have the money to go dig him up, and my limited forensics studies tell me the eye is far too decomposed to spit on, anyhow.
Come on man...let's not be so melodramatic. And I really don't get why you're taking this so personally. You're genuinely angry about this, and frankly, I find that a wee bit disturbing.


I put this quote separate from the others: I feel strongly that you owe the person to whom you launched this grenade an apology:

You are not proud to be ANYTHING- a child of God or anything.

Please do not disrespect someone's wife, as well as a fellow believer, by talking to them in such a way. That's absolutely uncalled for.

Am I a mod? Of course I'm not. Just voicing my opinion. But it's almost as if you're coming unhinged, man. If you're getting as angry as your posts appear, I'd suggest a break.

But you're grown up, so do what you want. But consider your witness in the process.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Feel free to leave. (I bet you and Fred Phelps would get along famously. Or you and Jeremiah Wright.)

Wrong guess. Both Phelps and Wright are not even worth imitating.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I am ashamed to call you an American then.

America is bigger than a handful of events that take place within her boundaries.

America is an ideal- it is a beacon of freedom that the whole world has fled to. It has been the greatest safe haven for the Church of Jesus Christ in the history of the world.

I think you ought to get a passport and be gone from here for good if you feel that way about America. You would do us all a big favor.

I know I am being harsh but I find it utterly untenable that someone would have the unmitigated gall to get on a website like this one where he can post freely anything he wants, a website called BAPTISTboard that has no fear of being taken offline in this country- that someone would come on here and SPIT on this nation. How dare you sir! You ought to be utterly ashamed of yourself.

If a moderator corrects me saying I am violating any bboard rules I will apologize for this post and humbly remove it. But I felt such ignorance and unthinkable ingratitude and despicable lack of patriotism as is displayed by this person ought to be confronted.

Open your eyes, Luke. It is only getting worse. Patriotism has nothing to do with it. It is the laws that are being passed by liberals who have no fear of God that have people like myself disgusted with what is going on in our country.

And laws are getting stricter and stricter. The Congress is squeezing the poor and elderly out. It is turning America into a cesspool of filth that one who was once patriotic at heart can do nothing about.

You want to be proud of America in the shape it is in? Go ahead. But don't belittle those who are disgusted with the shape it is in and are unable to do anything about it.

You want to be proud of America in the shape it is in? Next time there is news that tells of a young mother killing an infant, stand up, wave your flag and cheer her on. Next time there is a gay protest in which a God-fearing preacher is bashed for standing up against sin, you go ahead and wave that flag and cheer as the police haul the preacher off to jail for preaching the Word of God.

Go ahead and cheer. You won't see me there.

 

[Luke2427]

Some of Luke's quotes on this page:


Wow...where to start?

First, it's obvious that productive discussion won't happen here. You immediately launch into ad hominems and name-calling.
You throw verbal grenades--attacking the person rather than the position.

There have been several attempts to discuss with you the disagreement that many have with your concept that Calvin was not just influential--but that somehow he was the Father of our Country.

You are simply unwilling, however, to discuss it maturely.

Furthermore--in what universe is disagreeing with you about Calvin "spitting in his eye?"
I don't have the money to go dig him up, and my limited forensics studies tell me the eye is far too decomposed to spit on, anyhow.
Come on man...let's not be so melodramatic. And I really don't get why you're taking this so personally. You're genuinely angry about this, and frankly, I find that a wee bit disturbing.


I put this quote separate from the others: I feel strongly that you owe the person to whom you launched this grenade an apology:



Please do not disrespect someone's wife, as well as a fellow believer, by talking to them in such a way. That's absolutely uncalled for.

Am I a mod? Of course I'm not. Just voicing my opinion. But it's almost as if you're coming unhinged, man. If you're getting as angry as your posts appear, I'd suggest a break.

But you're grown up, so do what you want. But consider your witness in the process.

You're asking me to tone down in exchanges with people who say they are ashamed to be Americans. Forget it.

If I am not to speak at all to them fine. But I am not over the top in my language with these people.

Spitting in Calvin's eye is what is going on by two or three on this thread. Calvinism is called a "scourge" by one and others say he had little to nothing to contribute and ought not be thanked or recognized in any way.

I think you need to consider the implications of what they are saying before you jump the gun in judging my responses to them.

But I respect your opinion and your right to express it. And you probably are right- I probably do need to take a break. I do find the comments of these people to be horribly disrespectful and unpatriotic and inflammatory.

Thanks for chiming in. I think you have some valid points. But I think in pursuit of fairness you ought to consider the gravity of the comments I am responding to.

God bless!:jesus: