That old "Baptism Saves" argument

[robycop3]

I'm engaged with a group on another forum which insists one isn't saved wntil being baptized, with some even going so far as to say it's baptism that saves!

I'm a Baptist who firmly believes every new Christian should be baptized ASAP, but sometimes it's impossible to be baptized immediately after salvation, and sometimes not at all. I pointed out several examples such as Paul & Silas' jailer & family, Cornelius & family, and the thief on the cross beside Jesus. I was amused by their attempts to say the thief was baptized earlier!

Baptism is the physical announcement to the world that persin is saved, & is a command of Jesus. But without BELIEF & REPENTANCE first, it's just a gesture that only produces a wet sinner.

 

[Salty]

... I'm a Baptist who firmly believes every new Christian should be baptized ASAP,.

I'm a Baptist pastor that prefers not to normally baptize immediately. First, I want to ensure that the individual understand the full importance of the baptism. Second, how many were baptized immediately (say within 10 days) then shortly went back to the old life? - Third, in my personal case, our church required a 13 week new members course. I am so glad that I did go thru those 13 lessons. As I was finally baptized - it meant a lot more to me. 4) and by waiting a bit - I want the candidate to realize that baptism is not a completion of salvation!

... and the thief on the cross beside Jesus.... .

Some will say that the salvation of the thief happened before the Resurrection - thus no baptism.

 

[Marooncat79]

Paul writes in I Cor , I thank shod that I baptized none of you except Gauis and Crispus (chapter 1)

it baptism is necessary should not he have wanted to baptize many?

 

[Lodic]

There are so many examples from Scripture to show why baptism does not save us. What scriptures do these guys use to "prove" that baptism is required?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There are so many examples from Scripture to show why baptism does not save us. What scriptures do these guys use to "prove" that baptism is required?

Good question!

 

[JonC]

There are so many examples from Scripture to show why baptism does not save us. What scriptures do these guys use to "prove" that baptism is required?

Often they use Acts 2:38 and 22:16 (I'd say they misinterpret those verses).

 

[KenH]

Often they use Acts 2:38 and 22:16 (I'd say they misinterpret those verses).

Also, Mark 16:15-16 and 1 Peter 3:21. Having been raised in the Church of Christ and taught many Bible classes as a member, I know this very well. Of course, they do not claim that baptism saves people. Their version of Pelagianism teaches: hear the gospel(their version of it), believe the gospel(their version of it), repent of sins, publicly confess Jesus is the Son of God, be immersed, and then remain faithful - church attendance, partake of the Lord's supper every Sunday(both of those unless providentially hindered), contributing money, read the Bible, pray, avoid sinning as much as possible, etc.

It was long approximately 30 year journey for me from being a member of the Church of Christ to being a sovereign grace Baptist, from around 1990 until the middle of 2021.

 

[37818]

Not a single Holy Scripture teaches believers baptism to be required in order to be saved.

 

[Salty]

Not a single Holy Scripture teaches believers baptism to be required in order to be saved.

Tell that to the Church of Christ!

 

[37818]

Tell that to the Church of Christ!

Oh, I have stated that to individuals that think baptism is required.

Passages quoted don't. The only passage where baptism is actually included in being saved is Mark 16:16. But not the baptism but the believing is requirement in the verse. ". . . but he that believeth not shall be damned."

 

[robycop3]

There are so many examples from Scripture to show why baptism does not save us. What scriptures do these guys use to "prove" that baptism is required?

Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[robycop3]

My own baptism was delayed 5 months due to weather. But I believe I was saved during that whole time.

 

[Salty]

My own baptism was delayed 5 months due to weather. But I believe I was saved during that whole time.

I got thinking about what Roby said - so not to get too far off OP - I have started this thread: What kind of water for baptism???

 

[kyredneck]

There are so many examples from Scripture to show why baptism does not save us. What scriptures do these guys use to "prove" that baptism is required?

Often they use Acts 2:38 and 22:16 (I'd say they misinterpret those verses).

Also, Mark 16:15-16 and 1 Peter 3:21.

Not a single Holy Scripture teaches believers baptism to be required in order to be saved.

There's several passages in the NT that clearly teach that there is indeed a 'saving' from baptism. The sad fact is that evangelicals have so gommed it up that they can't see that the focus should be on 'sozo' and not 'baptizo'. I mostly blame Dispensationalism for that, and a condition I call 'hell on the brain', and an utter failure to follow the first rule of interpretation, audience relevance.

6 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39
For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

 

[JonC]

There's several passages in the NT that clearly teach that there is indeed a 'saving' from baptism. The sad fact is that evangelicals have so gommed it up that they can't see that the focus should be on 'sozo' and not 'baptizo'. I mostly blame Dispensationalism for that, and, a condition I call 'hell on the brain'.

6 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39
For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

I agree that baptism is often minimized as merely symbolic.

 

[37818]

There's several passages in the NT that clearly teach that there is indeed a 'saving' from baptism.

Your understanding is wrong. When challenged you avoid answering.
You lack understanding. And typically cannot be reasoned with.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

It is true, baptism there is included in the salvation. But that verse does not teach the baptism to be any kind of requirement. Rather ". . .he that disbelieveth shall be condemned." Nowhere is one who is not baptized condemned. Absolutely nowhere.

And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

True, baptism is being instructed. But it explicitly stated, ". . .in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; . . ." See Acts of the Apostles 10:43, ". . . that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. . . ." Which it would seem you effectively deny.

that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3:

Now here is a question you need to answer. How was those ". . . eight souls, . . . saved through water"? Which water immersion is the anti-type.

 

[kyredneck]

Your understanding is wrong.

Lol, you're proving me right.

"The sad fact is that evangelicals have so gommed it up that they can't see that the focus should be on 'sozo' and not 'baptizo'."

Example:

It is true baptism there is included in the salvation.

6 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

Does Christ clearly state there is a 'saving' from baptism? The question for you AND the majority should be 'saved from what'? Who is the audience here? What was the time? What was going to transpire before that generation passed away? Who was Christ a prophet to?

 

[kyredneck]

When challenged you avoid answering.

Oh, no. I avoid with extreme prejudice following you down into rabbit holes. I rarely can follow your reasoning.

 

[37818]

Oh, no. I avoid with extreme prejudice following you down into rabbit holes. I rarely can follow your reasoning.

TSA

 

[37818]

Lol, you're proving me right.

"The sad fact is that evangelicals have so gommed it up that they can't see that the focus should be on 'sozo' and not 'baptizo'."

Example:



6 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

Does Christ clearly state there is a 'saving' from baptism? The question for you AND the majority should be 'saved from what'? Who is the audience here? What was the time? What was going to transpire before that generation passed away? Who was Christ a prophet to?

Your understanding has Jesus contradicting what He told Paul. 1 Corinthians 1:17.