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That world in 2 Cor 5:19 !

PreachTony

Active Member
I am not going to go back and forth with you on this ! Do you want to debate one of the posts in this Thread ?

Yeah, I know you're not. You want us all to simply bow to your great interpretation and admit that you have some great knowledge of scripture that we don't. And when we point out how your interpretation falls short, such as ignoring certain words, or applying lacking definitions to terms, you accuse us of rabbit trails and evasions. It's the same song and dance every thread with you, SBM. You're allowed to question us and demand answers, but the moment we question you, you shrug us off, tell us we need to review or, worse, rehearse, what you said, and only then will you go into greater detail with us.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
Yeah, I know you're not. You want us all to simply bow to your great interpretation and admit that you have some great knowledge of scripture that we don't. And when we point out how your interpretation falls short, such as ignoring certain words, or applying lacking definitions to terms, you accuse us of rabbit trails and evasions. It's the same song and dance every thread with you, SBM. You're allowed to question us and demand answers, but the moment we question you, you shrug us off, tell us we need to review or, worse, rehearse, what you said, and only then will you go into greater detail with us.

Get back with me when you want to debate what I posted, and be prepared to show me that you understood what I posted in order to debate it !
 
Yeah, I know you're not. You want us all to simply bow to your great interpretation and admit that you have some great knowledge of scripture that we don't. And when we point out how your interpretation falls short, such as ignoring certain words, or applying lacking definitions to terms, you accuse us of rabbit trails and evasions. It's the same song and dance every thread with you, SBM. You're allowed to question us and demand answers, but the moment we question you, you shrug us off, tell us we need to review or, worse, rehearse, what you said, and only then will you go into greater detail with us.

Evasion, rabbit trail, clubfoot, stagger, swagger, stomp, and shish-boom-bah....
 
Get back with me when you want to debate what I posted, and be prepared to show me that you understood what I posted in order to debate it !

We 'get back with you' all the time, and you won't answer our questions. You just tell us to go back and re-read your posts. That's akin to trying to indoctrinate us with your doctrines.
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SBM - I have only one of your points to debate. You keep mixing "the world" with the group of believers. In what you're trying to say, we would read 2 Cor 5:19 as He reconciled His believers to Him; and this point cannot be argued. But you confuse the issue by referring to "this world," thus leading to the confusion of whether you mean a physical, spiritual, or some other world.

And thus, jonathan borland's question was valid, and you should have answered instead of blowing him off.

If you're here to teach us, then teach.

If you're here to see who's worthy of your teachings, none of us are.
 
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savedbymercy

New Member
SBM - I have only one of your points to debate. You keep mixing "the world" with the group of believers. In what you're trying to say, we would read 2 Cor 5:19 as He reconciled His believers to Him; and this point cannot be argued. But you confuse the issue by referring to "this world," thus leading to the confusion of whether you mean a physical, spiritual, or some other world.

And thus, jonathan borland's question was valid, and you should have answered instead of blowing him off.

If you're here to teach us, then teach.

If you're here to see who's worthy of your teachings, none of us are.

What post you speaking of specifically ? And be prepared to review the whole Post with me to see if you understood the points made even though you have a right to disagree !
 

PreachTony

Active Member
What post you speaking of specifically ? And be prepared to review the whole Post with me to see if you understood the points made even though you have a right to disagree !

I read all your posts but don't know what the great point is you're trying to make. To help me understand, why don't you state simply: 1. to what or whom does KOSMOS ("world") refer; 2. when did this reconciliation take place; 3. why does Paul urge his readers to be reconciled. Thanks.

Then there is nothing for you to debate !

This is the post in question. Jonathan Borland asked you three clear question in an effort to better understand what you were writing about. You, instead, shrugged him off as though he was unworthy of your teaching. He wanted to know what you meant, and you told him that he had nothing to debate. That's an unfair stance.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
This is the post in question. Jonathan Borland asked you three clear question in an effort to better understand what you were writing about. You, instead, shrugged him off as though he was unworthy of your teaching. He wanted to know what you meant, and you told him that he had nothing to debate. That's an unfair stance.

Do you have a question about what I posted ? Then show me the post, then be prepared to review the points I made in the post with me, and we shall address the question about the post and or comments within the post !
 

PreachTony

Active Member
Do you have a question about what I posted ? Then show me the post, then be prepared to review the points I made in the post with me, and we shall address the question about the post and or comments within the post !

Yeah, I do have a question about what you posted:
Why won't you answer what Jonathan Borland asked you?

Honestly, SBM, it would give us greater insight into the point you are trying to make. Instead, you've decided that since we wish for you to clarify, that you simply can brush us aside and tell us we have nothing to debate. You've made a rather vague post. We've asked for clarification so we can better understand you. You've told us we have nothing to debate. That all really makes you appear self-righteous and snobbish.

You are quick to accuse others of "evasion" and yet you've been evading Jonathan's questions since 8:30am (EST) Tuesday morning. The fact that it is now nearly 10:30am EST FRIDAY morning speaks volumes about how you conduct yourself in a "debate."
 
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PreachTony

Active Member
Ok , please quote the post that I made the statement in you have question about ! Also it must be in this thread !

Fine, I'll provide it to you one last time.
I read all your posts but don't know what the great point is you're trying to make. To help me understand, why don't you state simply: 1. to what or whom does KOSMOS ("world") refer; 2. when did this reconciliation take place; 3. why does Paul urge his readers to be reconciled. Thanks.
Jonathan asked you to clarify three things:
1. to what or whom does KOSMOS ("world") refer
2. when did this reconciliation take place
3. why does Paul urge his readers to be reconciled.

Instead of answering him, you basically told him he wasn't worthy of debating you. If anyone on this board makes a vague statement and someone else doesn't understand, they ask for clarification and typically receive it, in order to further the discussion. You made a somewhat unclear statement and JB asked for clarification. You have now been ignoring answering his questions for 75 hours, even though you have been active in this thread.

If you are just going to post things without offering up clarification on your points, then start your own blog. We're here to discuss, and we can't do that if people refuse to carry their own thoughts any farther than their original post.
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
pt

Since you have disregarded my challenge, I will promptly disregard yours. When you change your mind and do as i asked, then we will make progress !

Un-freakin-believable.

You are a false prophet. You asked for the specific question, in this thread; and it was provided to you. You then state that your challenge has been disregarded.

You are teaching heresy. Period. You should be banned.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
The World of Jn 3:16-17 !

John 3:16-17

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The World of Jn 3:17 that Christ came not to condemned but to save, is a Saved World according to God's Purpose in Christ, which is opposed to a condemned world outside of Christ 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Now its specifically stated that the end of Christ's coming for the World in Jn 3:17, which He also so Loved Vs 16, was that it should be saved by and through Himself !

Its the same World therefore spoken of here Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

In other words, the saving of all His People here equates to the saving of the World He Loved in Jn 3:17, they are the World of His People !

Gods Purpose for this World was that it should not be condemned but to be saved.

Now the word saved sozo means to save, preserve, rescue, and to heal, and its by and through His stripes its healed 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

That was God's Purpose through Christ ! In fact Jn 3:17 could read

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be healed !

We know that its God's Purpose for this particular world to be saved/healed by the word hina, the purpose clause, That[hina purpose] the world through Him might be saved !

Thats God's Purpose for this world through Christ, and if anyone of this World be lost, then God's Purpose through Christ to save it has failed !
 

savedbymercy

New Member
The word world !

The false teachers are going to be guilty of slothfulness like the unprofitable servant Matt 25:13-40

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.


28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This applys to the use of the word world in the scripture, the word kosmos, and how its used in scripture, the majority of the time in a limited, restricted sense, wherein it doesnt mean all mankind without exception, yet false teachers slothfully insist that it does ! Lets look at Jn 12:19

19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world/Kosmos is gone after him.

Now who in their right mind would say that world here means all mankind without exception ?

For there were indeed at that very time many who did go after Jesus, so the world kosmos must be understood in a Limited sense, a restricted sense, in fact some versions like the vulgate latin, Syriac, Arabic and Ethiopic would read " The whole world " See also the NIV

19 So the Pharisees said to one another, “See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!”

The DRB:

19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves: Do you see that we prevail nothing? behold, the whole world is gone after him.

Lets look also at the phrase in 1 Jn 5:19

19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world is seated in wickedness.

The whole world lieth in wickedness "ho Kosmos holos" and even here the whole world is limited/ restricted to the unsaved , unredeemed populos, it cannot by no means include the redeemed believers in Jesus Christ, wherein John had just said to them, to include himself "We know that we are of God"

So if the phrase the whole world is used in a limited restrictive sense in 1 Jn 5:19, marvel not that its used that way in 1 Jn 2:2

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

So whereas in 1 Jn 5:19 the redeemed ones are the obvious exception, so it is in 1 Jn 2:2 the unredeemed sinners and unbelievers are the exception !
 
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