The ‘Rapture’ of Flight 370

[DHK]

I ask the discerning, open-minded reader: What tribulation could be worse than that which has already happened to unknown multitudes of Christians…..all of which were ordained by 'sanctified, holy Christian men of God', who were and are today called ‘another Christ’ and the ‘Vicar of Christ'?

BTW, the sadistic victimizing of children by the Roman clergy has been ongoing for centuries. You can read of it in the extant Church Councils. You can read of it in their own histories. Such non-Christian satanic behavior is not limited to recent history.

This sordid truth was yet another reason why true Christians were disgusted and repulsed by the Roman Popes, priests, monks and friars.

You have no idea how bad it can be! Just no idea.
What can be worse? It can be a lot worse, believe me.
People like Jeffrey Dahlmer won't even compare to what is going to happen in the future. I recommend you to carefully study the Book of Revelation.

 

[OldRegular]

You have no idea how bad it can be! Just no idea.
What can be worse? It can be a lot worse, believe me.
People like Jeffrey Dahlmer won't even compare to what is going to happen in the future. I recommend you to carefully study the Book of Revelation.

How do you know it can be worse and in what way?

 

[DHK]

How do you know it can be worse and in what way?

Unless there is a reason to take the terminology in the book of Revelation symbolically (i.e., dragon = Satan), then I take it literally.

This is one event yet to happen in the future:

Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

A talent is approximately 100 pounds.
Can you imagine a hail storm with every hail stone one hundred pounds in weight? What would that do to your car, house? or even you?
I believe in the rapture; so, I won't be here for it. But for those that will be, it will be a terrible event as God pours his wrath out on those who have rejected him, and continue to do so.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Excellent post. I see the whore of Babylon as the apostate church which I believe will extend beyond the RCC.

So, you don't see two Babylons in Scripture, either, I guess?

 

[OldRegular]

Unless there is a reason to take the terminology in the book of Revelation symbolically (i.e., dragon = Satan), then I take it literally.

This is one event yet to happen in the future:

Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

A talent is approximately 100 pounds.
Can you imagine a hail storm with every hail stone one hundred pounds in weight? What would that do to your car, house? or even you?
I believe in the rapture; so, I won't be here for it. But for those that will be, it will be a terrible event as God pours his wrath out on those who have rejected him, and continue to do so.

I believe I had rather be killed by a 100 LB. chunk of ice than chewed up by a lion or soaked in pitch and set on fire.

 

[OldRegular]

So, you don't see two Babylons in Scripture, either, I guess?

Actually I do. There was Babylon that carried the Southern Kingdom into captivity for about 70 years and then there is the Babylon of Revelation!

 

[DHK]

I believe I had rather be killed by a 100 LB. chunk of ice than chewed up by a lion or soaked in pitch and set on fire.

That's one person. The devastation to the land and people as a whole (such as the U.S. eastern seaboard) would be tremendous. What about New York City alone?

This is another one:
Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

We don't know what exactly John saw here, and I am not going to speculate.
All I do know is that the person inflicted will be tormented with a sting equivalent to that of a scorpion but will not die. It will be painful enough that he will seek death and will not find it. It is a terrible life to live.

 

[Yeshua1]

You have no idea how bad it can be! Just no idea.
What can be worse? It can be a lot worse, believe me.
People like Jeffrey Dahlmer won't even compare to what is going to happen in the future. I recommend you to carefully study the Book of Revelation.

Think of ALL the crappy stuff that as happened in the World since time of the fall forward, amd then remember that jesus said the time to come will be worst EVER experienced on earth, and think that will be due to the church being taken away, the Spirit no longer restraining evil, so satan allowed to rule this earth for short season, and brings "hell on earth!"

 

[Protestant]

People like Jeffrey Dahlmer won't even compare to what is going to happen in the future. I recommend you to carefully study the Book of Revelation.

Without a sufficient knowledge of Church history the Revelation of Jesus Christ becomes a mish-mash of Hollywood science fiction and B-movie horror films which do nothing but intrigue and titillate the flesh of millions of ignorant, easily deceived professing Christians.

Jeffrey Dahmer has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Your analogy is a red herring. Had he been a Priest or even a Baptist pastor, your analogy would have a modicum of validity.

The central theme of the Revelation is not difficult to discern.

Satan’s masterpiece was described to John as a false Church, a great whore, a murderess, unfaithful to her Lord while alleging she is Christ’s innocent virgin bride.

Yet all the world would be blind to her true identity.

All, that is, except those true Christians whom she persecuted and even put to death for exposing her true identity.

Furthermore, the false Church would have as its head an absolute monarch, a man who would be viewed by the world as a father, kindly, holy and pure, but, in fact, is the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, the Beast from the Abyss.

Claiming to be a devoted servant of Christ, he is Antichrist, the rival and enemy of Christ.

I would have you consider the following Scripture:

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Our Lord has revealed how we may know who has NOT been written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, i.e., the unsaved: by discerning those who worship, honor, revere, and obey the Pope of Rome.

Christians, both ancient and not so ancient, have always known the identity of Mystery Babylon and her Antichrist.

The Mystery of Iniquity was no mystery to them.

Their testimonies are alive and well in books and manuscripts preserved worldwide for the edification and education of the Elect:

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[Protestant]

Excellent post. I see the whore of Babylon as the apostate church which I believe will extend beyond the RCC.

Thank you for your kind words!

Yes, the RCC has harlot daughters......she is the Mother of Harlots.

We could start another thread naming the harlot daughters, but I fear that if we did so we would be banned/excommunicated.

For example, Arminianism, Futurism and Preterism all have their origins in the Roman Catholic Church, well before Arminius, LaHaye and Chilton.

 

[OldRegular]

That's one person. The devastation to the land and people as a whole (such as the U.S. eastern seaboard) would be tremendous. What about New York City alone?

This is another one:
Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

We don't know what exactly John saw here, and I am not going to speculate.
All I do know is that the person inflicted will be tormented with a sting equivalent to that of a scorpion but will not die. It will be painful enough that he will seek death and will not find it. It is a terrible life to live.

If I understand anything about Scripture it is that those who die without Jesus Christ will spend eternity in the "lake of fire". So what is the torment you describe above compared to that? Nothing!

Also please note that in verse 9:4 the command is given: And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Only the unbeliever will suffer this torment!

 

[DHK]

If I understand anything about Scripture it is that those who die without Jesus Christ will spend eternity in the "lake of fire". So what is the torment you describe above compared to that? Nothing!

Also please note that in verse 9:4 the command is given: And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Only the unbeliever will suffer this torment!

The Bible teaches that every believer should expect to go through tribulation.
"All who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
FACT: Over 1,000 Christian women between the ages of 12 and 25 are kidnapped every year in Pakistan and "forced" to convert to Islam; forced to marry Muslim men.
The simple "fact" that one does not leave the USA and/or read about what happens to Christians in other parts of the world does not mean that others are not suffering for their faith. Americans have it way too easy when it comes to "Christianity."
We are to expect "tribulation."

But I don't believe that believers will go through "The Great Tribulation" as you just inferred. They will all be unbelievers.

 

[Protestant]

You have no idea how bad it can be! Just no idea.
What can be worse? It can be a lot worse, believe me.

What can be worse, you say?

Consider the outrageous cruelties perpetrated by the Roman Catholic soldiers upon the innocent Christian Waldenses of the Piedmont Valleys during the Massacre of 1655 in which the Church of Rome attempted to exterminate these humble God-fearing dissenters.

Sir Samuel Morland spent years collecting Waldensian manuscripts and other important documents which proved they were not heretics but true Christians who followed the admonition of Scripture by refusing to capitulate and render obedience to Mystery Babylon, the Church of Rome, or her Antichrist, the Pope.

In 1658 he published The History of the Evangelical Churches of the Valleys of Piemont.

I will give excerpts of eyewitness testimony recorded by Morland.

However, in order to make the testimony 'come to life' I will substitute your family members as the victims.

After reading the heinous nature of the crimes, I then ask you if it is possible to experience a more terrifying, inhumane and sadistic tribulation than that which our ancient Christian brothers and sisters have experienced at the hands of Roman Catholic soldiers.....all in the name of and service of Christ.

“The moderator’s mother, about sixty years of age, being overtaken in a certain place called Eyrals, by divers soldiers, was by them commanded to say her prayers, which she having done, they urged her to repeat Jesus Maria. [Hail Mary] But the poor woman refusing to do it, one of the soldiers thrust a sickle into the lower part of her belly, and ripped her up to the navel, and afterwards dragged the poor miserable creature upon the ground, half dead, till another of them came and severed her head from her body. The moderator’s brother’s wife, daughter-in-law to this poor woman, who was constrained to hide herself in the snow for the space of two days without any succor or nourishment, was an eyewitness of this horrible butchery.” (p.339)

“A certain man of Trafsiniere, the moderator’s brother, being taken prisoner the 8th of May, received divers stabs with a dagger in the sole of his feet and in his ears, by the hands of one ‘Gulielmo Roche’, a famous murderer of Lucerna, and another called ‘Mandolin’, who afterwards cut off his privy members and then applied a burning candle to the wound, frying it with the flame thereof so that the blood might be stopped and the torments of that miserable creature prolonged. They tore off his nails with hot pincers to try if they could by any means force him to renounce his religion. But when nothing would do, they tied one of his legs to the Marquis of Lucerna’s mule, and so dragged him along the streets, till such time as he had almost ended his painful life, and then binding his head about with a cord, they strained and twisted the same with a staff so hard, that it made his eyes and brains pop out of his head. In the end, when they had sufficiently satiated their appetites with all the variety of cruelties they could well devise, they cast the dead carcase into the river.” (P.341)

“The moderator’s daughter had a long stake thrust into her privities, by some of the soldiers, who in a barbarous way carried her upon their shoulders in manner of an ensign, till they had wearied themselves, each man in his turn, and then they stuck the other end down into the ground, and so left her hanging in the air upon the stake’s end, as a most formidable and horrid spectacle to all that passed by that way.” (P.345)

“The moderator, being taken prisoner, escaped miraculously, after he had beheld with his eyes three of his children torn in pieces, limb from limb, and the fourth that was not above six weeks old, snatched out of the arms of the mother, its swaddling clothes taken off, and stripped naked, and then its brains dashed out against the rocks.” (P.346)

“The moderator’s niece, a beautiful and well-favored girl, about ten years of age, was taken by some of those lecherous brute beasts, and because her age and stature was incapable of the ordinary course of nature, they forced her body (I leave the reader to make up the rest) in so inhumane manner, that she was afterwards half dead, and wallowing in her own blood.” (P.348)

But rather than dwell on the past, let us move forward to the present to see if such atrocities could occur in our enlightened and educated Age of Reason.

On February 25, 2014 the PBS program Frontline aired a documentary, Secrets of the Vatican.

In it a victim of a priest’s sexual assault told her story.

Monica Barrett was 8 years old when Father Effinger asked her to help him with the candles in church. Once inside, he assaulted her for a period of time and ended up raping her.

“While he was raping me I didn’t understand what was happening. I just knew there was this incredible pain and I could hardly breathe. I kept praying that God would just let me die. And when he finished he stood up and he looked at me and said, ‘If you tell anybody what you did they won’t believe you. And if you tell anybody your parents will burn in Hell.’”

I ask the unbiased reader, would not a one hundred pound hail stone on the head be a blessing compared with the barbaric brutality man is capable of inflicting?

 

[Protestant]

The two disciples on the road to Emmaus didn't believe that Christ had risen from the dead, even though they were talking to the risen Christ!!!!

Scripture explains why they did not recognize Him: "But their eyes were holden that they should not know him."

"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."

In other words, it was the eternal decree of God that Christ should be temporarily rejected by the Jews while embraced by the Gentiles.

Dispensationalists do not understand this eternal truth.

They didn't know a lot of things at that time. They were completely confused as to the nature and the timing of the Kingdom.

They were not confused about His one time visible personal return in Judgment.

Going to the disciples (pre-Pentecost) for information about the Kingdom is not the wisest source of information.

Where is your biblical authority for such a declaration? It is the words of Jesus in Matthew 24 which declare His one time visible personal return in Judgment.

Please answer this question:
How many resurrections do you believe there are?

I answered that question in post # 67. I will post it again here.

DHK insists “the first resurrection is the Rapture.”

Actually, truth be told, the first resurrection has two distinct parts.

1. The dead in Christ must rise first, receiving their glorified bodies.

2. Next, those believers who are alive on Earth at Christ’s coming will not experience death, but will instead be changed in an instant, receiving their glorified bodies at that time.

DHK rightly realizes “the second resurrection is only for the unsaved.”

Now let us examine Rev. 20:4-6:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Please note that those dead Tribulation saints who did not escape the Antichrist’s Great Tribulation are partakers in the first resurrection.

Therefore, the saints who were raptured did not escape the Great Tribulation.

The first resurrection = all the dead in Christ from OT times through Antichrist’s Great Tribulation rise first, immediately followed by the translation of the living saints who rise second.

The Holy Spirit has anticipated all false teachings concerning the Second Advent of Christ by elaborating the truth in several ways which defy refutation.

Furthermore, the translation of the saints alive at the time of Christ's Return is proof that death will be no more.

Otherwise Christ could have waited for the last Christian to die before He Returned.

BTW, I am speaking of the first death, not the second death which will occur at the second resurrection comprised of the wicked.

Since death is vanquished at the Rapture, it is impossible for the Rapture to occur before the tribulation because Scripture testifies to innumerable Christian tribulation martyrs.

 

[DHK]

Yea, and all who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

We are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ if so be that we suffer with Him.

Unto you it is given, not only to believe on him but also to suffer for his sake. (It is the will of God)

Read the entire first epistle of Peter written to suffering Christians, those that had to endure persecution from Nero. It was at a time when Nero used some of them as human torches for his garden; others he sent into the Coliseum to be ravaged by wild animals (lions, etc.) They were called spectator sports.

It is God's will that Christians suffer and be persecuted. As an American you may never understand that.

The Tribulation is God's wrath being poured out upon the wicked. The difference between them and believers is that when believers suffer God gives them grace to suffer and often they do it all the while rejoicing. This is the reason many came to Christ in the first few centuries. The more they were persecuted, the more Christianity grew. They died with grace; rejoicing that they were worthy to suffer for His name.

OTOH, those that suffer the wrath of God will only blaspheme the name of God and curse him all the more. The hearts will continue to be hardened.