The 12 Anathemas of the Council of Ephesus (A.D. 431)

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
Eli, that's... astoundingly odd. I don't know of any orthodox faith which believes such things. No ovum involved? Please.

You're digging yourself a hole.

You see, that part was not known before. As the modern medical advances, we learn many things that even human beings can deliver babes who have nothing to do with the blood relationship.

Still, the Tube babies are called the children of the surrogate mother.

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nate:
To link Rome with these verses takes a lot of imagination and hypocrisy. To claim Rome is wealthy is a huge mistake. I have read several places online where the Vatican is in fact in a huge defeciet. Many Christians were indeed through the inquisition tortured through the Church but the RCC never killed anyone they handed them over for the state to carry out. Pagan Jerusalem and Pagan Rome were two places many were killed. Hunt in his original book said somethings in those verses were figuritive and some were literal. And he had to do so to read the RCC into those verses.

So, you deny even Crusade?

Matt, don't you think you can help Nate to have better understanding on the history? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]In both cases - the Crusade and the Inquisitions - the execution (literally, sometimes in the case of the latter) of the Catholic Church's instruction was carried out by the secular powers of the day. For example, the First Crusade was meant to assist the Eastern Orthodox in the defence of the Byzantine Empire and the recapture of Jerusalem but, due to the greed of the largely Norman and other North European feudal lords and knights, succeeded in establishing the Kingdom of Jerusalem as the personal territory of Baldwin of Flanders - the Eastern Orthodox didn't get much of a look-in

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I don't think you have the makings of a gynaecologist or obstetrician with that ignorance of basic reproductive biology. In fact, taken together with your earlier diagnosis of my 'Whorish Disease' then I'd steer clear of medicine altogether - it's not exactly your strongpoint, is it?

Human Ovum was not designed to be fertilized with the Words or Spirit. Jesus was not imperfect man before His birth here. He was perfect before His bith. Where was He gone if He was created or produced by birth from Mary? Didn't Human Embryo have any Brain by the fertilization?

Can anyone call His Surrogate Mother as His Mother? If anyone is born out of his Surrogate Mother, then can he not be called as the descendant of the Surrogate mother's family?

I mentioned Jesus worked during OT times in hundreds of verses in OT. Also mentioned Moses worked for Christ ( Heb 11:26)

"This Day I have begotten thee" (Heb 1:5)

Who is "I" ?


Daniel 3:
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God .

Was the fourth Son of God?


Please wake up from the dream of the beautiful goddess. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]OK, you've completely lost me...and the plot

 

[Chemnitz]

Then you said " Spouting Garbage etc." Apparently you jumped up to the anger! then never retracted them!

They have never been retracted since you have continued to disparage good Christian ministers with your blanket statement. Such statements are garbage particularly when offered without proof. Don't blame me for calling it for what it is.

Human Ovum was not designed to be fertilized with the Words or Spirit. Jesus was not imperfect man before His birth here.

That is why it is a miracle and a great mystery.

There is no definitive proof that God took a ovum and fertilized it in a test tube, so really this analogy of surrogate mothers is pointless. NOt to mention the flesh had to come from somewhere.

BTW biologically speaking the mother and father are still concidered to be those who have donated the genetic material.

 

[Eliyahu]

The important point is that
Jesus was the same yesterday, today and forever.

Jesus created the universe, worked during OT times, came into this world, then came into this world by coming out of woman ( Gal 4:4)

Jesus didn't become a new Jesus, which was mentioned by Calvin as well.

Have you read this Genesis 31:11-13:

The Angel said " I am God at Bethel" v 13, which means

"I am God at the House of God"

Which angel can say so?

But the Angel says again another points:

I am God at Bethel, where you anointedst the pillar, and vowedst a vow unto me.
Here the Angel point out 28:18-20. In other words, the Angel shares everything with God. He says God. There are about 50 places where this Special Angel shows up in OT. The Angel is translated as Angel same as Elohim, but Hebrew Word for it is Malack (The One who is sent)

Jesus emphasized He was sent by Father, as we read in John 9 many times. Siloam means " the one sent" which means Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ was the true Siloam and the Blind man went to the Siloam and then obtained the sight. We were spiritually blinded but obtained the sight by going to the One who was sent.

Siloam came from " Shalach" to send's passive form.

No human ovum is designed to be combined with Word. By such fertilization did the embryo generate any new brain?

I dealt with this before at :

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3475.html

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Then you said " Spouting Garbage etc." Apparently you jumped up to the anger! then never retracted them!

They have never been retracted since you have continued to disparage good Christian ministers with your blanket statement. Such statements are garbage particularly when offered without proof. Don't blame me for calling it for what it is.

Human Ovum was not designed to be fertilized with the Words or Spirit. Jesus was not imperfect man before His birth here.

That is why it is a miracle and a great mystery.

There is no definitive proof that God took a ovum and fertilized it in a test tube, so really this analogy of surrogate mothers is pointless. NOt to mention the flesh had to come from somewhere.

BTW biologically speaking the mother and father are still concidered to be those who have donated the genetic material. </font>[/QUOTE]You are still hopeless. Please don't respond to me.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Then you said " Spouting Garbage etc." Apparently you jumped up to the anger! then never retracted them!

They have never been retracted since you have continued to disparage good Christian ministers with your blanket statement. Such statements are garbage particularly when offered without proof. Don't blame me for calling it for what it is.

Human Ovum was not designed to be fertilized with the Words or Spirit. Jesus was not imperfect man before His birth here.

That is why it is a miracle and a great mystery.

There is no definitive proof that God took a ovum and fertilized it in a test tube, so really this analogy of surrogate mothers is pointless. NOt to mention the flesh had to come from somewhere.

BTW biologically speaking the mother and father are still concidered to be those who have donated the genetic material. </font>[/QUOTE]You are still hopeless. Please don't respond to me. </font>[/QUOTE]Hopeless? No, he's speaking the only logical, arguable truth possible.

Matt mentioned the lineage of David, which is vital to the messiaship of Jesus. Without that, none of the OT propphecies, applied manifold times in the Gospels, make sense.

If Jesus didn't need a mom, why bother being born? Why not skip the whole potty training and going through puberty thing and jump right to the white horse and Great Throne?

The answer is profound in its simplicity: In order to perfect His ministry and sacrifice, Jesus had to be human flesh. He had to have the experience of humanity: potty training, skinning His knee, puberty, parental love, friendships, rejection, temptation, the whole nine yards.

Calling Mary the "Mother of God" is not deifying Mary, it is acknowledging the nature of Christ. I don't recommend addressing any deceased person for help in prayers, but I think the Protestant churches, in their terror over appearing to Catholic, have missed a great opportunity for teaching about what i means to give one's self over to the will of God.

 

[Chemnitz]

You are still hopeless. Please don't respond to me.

Hopeless? Far from it, I am full of hope; for Jesus Christ, who was concieved by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary died and rose again on my behalf. I like all of my brothers and sisters in Christ have great hope in Christ Jesus. I wouldn't say that I am hopeless.

P.S. If you don't want to get burned don't play with fire.