The $64,000 question

T2U said:

Count me out, man. I used to point my fingers at those in other faiths and say, "nah, no way they can be saved", but not anymore since I came to understand what grace was all about.

 

Getting the right interpretation will take every possible tool you can use. Your intelligence and wisdom. Your alternate bible translations. Consulting with others whose opinions are worth something. The consensus of the church body. Your own spiritual insights and your best attempts at discerning what God is saying to you.

YOU WILL NEVER KNOW FOR SURE YOUR INTERPRETATIONS AND BELIEFS ARE CORRECT.

You will by faith act on one interpretion or another.

You will sometimes be wrong.

But without Faith it is impossible to please Him; for he that cometh unto Him must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

 

I think Paul of Eugene summs it up correctly.

 

Since T2U loves to see this posted "over and over again"...

#1. Obviously -- from T2Us own confession above -- T2U got the 1,2,3 answer from me the "First time".

#2. T2U declares that none of the the promises found in God's Word "work" as listed in 1-5.

#3. I have continually hammered away at T2U's implied alternate that "we all listen to our own magesterium" where in the case of the RCC - it is the RCC.

This has been the obvious part.
</font>[/QUOTE]Indeed it has.

In Christ,

Bob

 

T2U's claim that the "Holy Spirit doesn't work" is false.

His claim that the "Bible does not work" is also false.

The Word of God and the leading of the Spirit of Truth have worked in every age.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Where did he say these things?

Thanks, Bob.

In Christ,
Neal

 

I concur. Bob completely twisted what you wrote.

I think T2U's point was (and correct me if I'm wrong, T2U) that it is not sufficient for one to claim that "the Holy Spirit guides me in the correct interpretation of Scripture" since many who claim this hold contradictory interpretations of and doctrines from the same Scripture. The Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion or contradiction. He doesn't lead one believer to interpretation A and another to non-A or anti-A. Therefore, not everyone who claims to be guided by the Spirit in his interpretation of a given Scripture is actually being so guided.

So the question remains, how does one objectively know that his interpretation of Scripture is consistent with the Holy Spirit's teaching and is thus the correct one?

 

OK. I'm going to give this a shot.

I don't "know" that I'm right. But I have faith that the Holy Spirit will guide me to the truth. I don't just read one bible. I have three bibles with different translations and I read a Catholic study bible. I don't read Greek or Hebrew so one of my bibles translates some of the original Greek and Hebrew.

I pray daily that the Lord will guide me and I will find the truth.

Kim

 

I totally support you. I see nowhere that you made the claims attributed to you.

In Christ,
Neal

 

I support you but based on experience the moderators here thus far been incapable of recognizing any behavior as improper as long as it is directed towards a Catholic, typically they join in or lead these types of behavior. There is always hope.

[ March 28, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Born Again Catholic ]

 

How do you know that your interpretation of Church teachings and your beliefs are right when every reason that you list is also given by others who believe very differently from you?

The reasons I've heard so far:

1) I follow the Cathecism
2) I compare Cathecism to Cathecism
3) The Holy Father guides me
4) I've studied the Cathecism for a long time
5) Other (Roman Catholic) churches agree with me

So how do you know that you are right?

 

Hi Ron, On page two I gave a round about answer and you never responded. It was kind of answering a question with a question thing so maybe you felt it was not what you were asking so you by-passed it. I respect that but I like the argument so I will put it to you again.

10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

In the verses above Paul clearly does not claim to know everything. He, Paul the writer of 2/3 of the NT says WE, all believers (probably ALL people) can only see through a glass darkly. We can not see it all and that includes Paul. The point I am making is that even the Pope is looking through a glass darkly and so is subject to errors as we all make mistakes when we can’t fully see what we are doing. This explains bad Popes, the Crusades, our own failures and the differing of opinion of scriptures. There is salvation in no other name but Jesus, that is clear and we can’t scurry around that teaching in the Bible. If we have the same ingredients and bake our cakes a little different we will all end up with the same cake, though they will look a little different. Woe to those who choose the wrong ingredients.

Ron, was that clear and does it count as an answer to your question? We can’t see clearly until we are with Jesus, “face to face”, so we cling to Him in our limited understanding and cling to the hope that comes only from Him.

In Love and Truth,
Brian

 

Excellent point. The list that you give above is the "alternative" that T2U offers to the list he posted at the start.

You have shown that this alternate list utterly fails. And as has already been shown - 1,2 and 3 of the first list - is in fact the Word of God - unfailing - never flawed, always faithful and true.

Excellent.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Since T2U loves to see this posted "over and over again"...

#1. Obviously -- from T2Us own confession above -- T2U got the 1,2,3 answer from me the "First time".

Some are now pretending that they have never seen T2U post what is copy pasted above on this thread.

Read it "again" as T2U said "In other words, your answer appears to be 1, 2, & 3.".

Surely this is not the hard part to get.

So when we see T2U pretend that the answer has not been posted - we "observe" he is denying his own confession in this regard.

How hard can this be?

#2. T2U declares that none of the the promises found in God's Word "work" as listed in 1-5.

Read it "again" -- T2U said "The five arguements which I posted do not hold up."

"Again" - surely "this" is not the hard part to "see" either - right?

(Am I missing something here? Why pretend that this is not easy to see - T2U has already posted these confessions here).

#3. I have continually hammered away at T2U's implied alternate that "we all listen to our own magesterium" where in the case of the RCC - it is the RCC.

This has been the obvious part.

Now we have another poster on this board - listing the implied alternates - the same as I have done - only in more explicit detail.

Instead of dealing openly and honestly with this progression T2U keeps circling back to my points one and two above "as if" he never posted those positions or I never posted a response.

Childish though that tactic may be - it does not advance his argument. I fail to see how anyone can be stuck on those points.

In Christ,

Bob

 

This is T2U's fifth post verbatim on this message list.

Please tell me that all can "see it". Why do we have to keep going back to revisit the details of what it says about T2U's positions already taken here like it "is not obvious from the post"?

In Christ,

Bob