The Ability Or Inability To Welcome Divine Truth

[Iconoclast]

Mt13:
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


Mt16
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Divine truth Is God-given to the objects of God's love...His elect sheep.

Scripture is clear on this. If a person does not see it, we are told it has not been given to them. If they oppose themselves with statements that begin with,
It seems as if you are saying....and then go on to deny truth that indicates they have not received it yet, or maybe they never will.

If someone wants to ask a question of clarification that is fine but to make the assumption that because they cannot grasp it means it is wrong, is false.

jn3:
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

 

[InTheLight]

#2, #3, and #5.

 

[kyredneck]

#2, #3, and #5.

What a cop-out.

 

[agedman]

Mt13:
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


Mt16
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Divine truth Is God-given to the objects of God's love...His elect sheep.

Scripture is clear on this. If a person does not see it, we are told it has not been given to them. If they oppose themselves with statements that begin with,
It seems as if you are saying....and then go on to deny truth that indicates they have not received it yet, or maybe they never will.

If someone wants to ask a question of clarification that is fine but to make the assumption that because they cannot grasp it means it is wrong, is false.

jn3:
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

“It seems as if you are saying” Is a certain indicator that one is at least making an attempt to restate. However, unless the original is restated with accuracy and restructuring is unattended the attempt fails.

One of the harshest statements is found in both Matthew 7 and Matthew 15 concerning not wasting time presenting the gospel to certain folks.

An illustration:

Sitting with men used to intellectual exercise, one brought up the Scriptures concerning salvation.

The reactions were varied, but in particular some were hostile and vicious.
They revealed themselves as having the same attitude as the dogs of the time of Christ.
Dogs were not inbred lap dogs of today, and the attitudes of such ancient dogs can be still be seen in the life and reactions to God’s Word.

It is not that some do not see, but not seeing they have become viciously opposed by forcefully rejecting. The stronger the rejection, the less obliged the believer is to contend with them.

This is a most uncomfortable and (imo) least of the teachings by Christ. It goes against the evangelical thinking, yet is still the truthful presentation.

 

[church mouse guy]

#2, #3, and #5.

Never get tired of reading that list of excuses.

 

[InTheLight]

What a cop-out.

#2, #3, and #5.

#2 That verse is taken out of context.
Self-explanatory, but I'll play anyway. The verse in Matt. 16 where Peter answers Jesus and says he is "the Christ, the Son of the living God", was special revelation given to Peter by God regarding the identity of Jesus. This doesn't mean that God gives any and all believers special revelations to divine truth.

John 3:27, "A person can receive only what is given them from heaven," has nothing to do with believers receiving divine truth, it's about the validity of John's baptism as a forerunner of Jesus baptizing people.

#3. That verse is not written to the people you are claiming.
The verses in Matthew 13 are written specifically to the 12 apostles, or if you don't agree on that point, at the most he is speaking to the Jewish people and not Gentiles. Jesus is explaining why he speaks to the Jews in parables. The answer is so that they WON'T understand what he's saying. This implies that they WOULD understand if he were to speak plainly. The 12 apostles CAN see it because Jesus "has given understanding to them," and them alone.

#5 You are not smart enough to understand the doctrines of grace.
This is what Iconoclast is saying when he says,

If someone wants to ask a question of clarification that is fine but to make the assumption that because they cannot grasp it means it is wrong, is false.

 

[37818]

Faith comes from hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17.

Faith is a result of God giving repentance.

Sanctification from God's truth and sanctification of the Spirit of God, John 17:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

Without God's intervention, Romans 3:11.

 

[Iconoclast]

#2, #3, and #5.

So are you saying that Matthew violated your number rules?

 

[InTheLight]

So are you saying that Matthew violated your number rules?

#4

 

[Iconoclast]

InTheLight,

#2 That verse is taken out of context.
Self-explanatory, but I'll play anyway.

Thanks for being such a good sport and playing ITL.

The verse in Matt. 16 where Peter answers Jesus and says he is "the Christ, the Son of the living God", was special revelation given to Peter by God regarding the identity of Jesus.

We agree here, that is good. let's move forward

This doesn't mean that God gives any and all believers special revelations to divine truth.

Now we agree here that Peter was given Divine understanding of this truth.
Can I ask you...why was that necessary?
What about the clear statements in matt saying it is given to some, and not given to others?

John 3:27, "A person can receive only what is given them from heaven," has nothing to do with believers receiving divine truth, it's about the validity of John's baptism as a forerunner of Jesus baptizing people.

Okay, but what about the principle taught? Clearly it speaks of enablement.
Like the psalmist in psalm119;
18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Why does he pray for Divine enablement?

#3. That verse is not written to the people you are claiming.
The verses in Matthew 13 are written specifically to the 12 apostles, or if you don't agree on that point, at the most he is speaking to the Jewish people and not Gentiles.

Yes, Jesus was dealing with those people at that time, and yet it is part of the canon of scripture.

it is for us; 2tim3:16-17

Jesus is explaining why he speaks to the Jews in parables.

Correct and agreed

The answer is so that they WON'T understand what he's saying. This implies that they WOULD understand if he were to speak plainly. The 12 apostles CAN see it because Jesus "has given understanding to them," and them alone.

Now you agree then that truth can be concealed or revealed by God?

#5 You are not smart enough to understand the doctrines of grace.
This is what Iconoclast is saying when he says,

ITL, why not let Iconoclast actually say what he says, and you say what you say.
you can think or speculate on what iconoclast says, but if he did not say it where you could quote it, it does not seem correct to say that does it?

 

[Reformed]

Mt13:
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


Mt16
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Divine truth Is God-given to the objects of God's love...His elect sheep.

Scripture is clear on this. If a person does not see it, we are told it has not been given to them. If they oppose themselves with statements that begin with,
It seems as if you are saying....and then go on to deny truth that indicates they have not received it yet, or maybe they never will.

If someone wants to ask a question of clarification that is fine but to make the assumption that because they cannot grasp it means it is wrong, is false.

jn3:
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Icon, if your point is that divine truth is God-given, I do not think any Christian will disagree with that. We are not able to understand divine truth without the Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 2:12). However, not all divine truth is the same. The divine truth that the disciples and later, the Apostles, received from God was a step beyond what other Christians receive. When Peter confessed that Jesus was the Christ (Matthew 16), that truth was given to Peter in-the-moment by the Spirit. We have access to that same truth today in Scripture. All these things should be self-evident to a believer.

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon, if your point is that divine truth is God-given, I do not think any Christian will disagree with that. We are not able to understand divine truth without the Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 2:12). However, not all divine truth is the same. The divine truth that the disciples and later, the Apostles, received from God was a step beyond what other Christians receive. When Peter confessed that Jesus was the Christ (Matthew 16), that truth was given to Peter in-the-moment by the Spirit. We have access to that same truth today in Scripture. All these things should be self-evident to a believer.

Yes Reformed that is a true statement and worthy of all acceptation.
My fear is that many reject the truth contained in 1 cor 2.
They have a wounded Adam, instead of a Dead one.
The canon of scripture is indeed all we need for the Spirit to quicken the word to His children;

 

[Iconoclast]

37818

Faith comes from hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17.

Do you think it is understood by the person themself, or the person whom the Spirit enables to understand it?

Faith is a result of God giving repentance.

God is always central