The Abortion Debate Again

[Magnetic Poles]

In another thread where the abortion issue popped up as an off-topic side issue you stated:



I tried to provide a new thread specifically addressing the issues you raised. The quoted material I provided from Scott Rae fully addresses your concerns over when life begins and the idea of "potential to someday become a baby." No one here has engaged in personal attacks etc. So let's discuss the issues and leave persons and personalities aside.:thumbs:

Well first, I don't know anything about Scott Rae, and secondly my previous post stands. I have no desire to participate in yet another abortion debate. No deal, Howie! :laugh:

 

[hillclimber1]

Originally Posted by Magnetic Poles

The point is there is great divergence in science and among theologians about when life begins. Killing a baby is wrong. But many, including Christians, would not agree that a blastocyst is a "baby". Even misusing the term "baby" makes meaningful debate impossible, as in most cases we seem to not be talking about a baby, but a mass of cells with the potential to someday become a baby. Nobody wants to kiss and cuddle a mass of cellular matter.

Where this "great divergence" exists, I go with my Lord, and His view that before we were conceived, He knew us... I have little respect for today's scientific community, and no respect for theologians that can argue for abortion.

 

[Bible-boy]

Well first, I don't know anything about Scott Rae, and secondly my previous post stands. I have no desire to participate in yet another abortion debate. No deal, Howie! :laugh:

Firstly, I provided detailed quotes of Scott Rae's positions including the reference source. All you'd have to do is read them and then discuss whether you agree with him or not. The person or personality of Scott Rae is irrelivent. However, just FYI:

Dr. Scott B. Rae is currently Professor of Biblical Studies-Christian Ethics at Talbot School of Theology, Biola University in La Mirada, California. He has a Ph.D. in Social Ethics at the University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California. He earned a B.A.S. in Economics from Southern Methodist University and a Th.M. from Dallas Theological Seminary. He has taught and pastored in Southern California for the past fifteen years.
Dr. Rae is the author of The Ethics of Commercial Surrogate Motherhood, Praeger Publishing; Moral Choices: An Introduction to Ethics, Zondervan; Brave New Families: Biblical Ethics and Reproductive Technologies, Baker; Beyond Integrity: A Judeo-Christian Approach to Business Ethics (with Kenman L. Wong), Zondervan; Bioethics: A Christian Approach in a Pluralistic Age (forthcoming, Eerdmans); and On Human Persons: Metaphysical and Ethical Reflections (with J.P. Moreland), forthcoming, Intervarsity Press. He is also the author of numerous journal articles in bioethics.
Dr. Rae serves as ethics consultant for Providence Holy Cross Medical Center, Mission Hills, California; Providence St. Joseph Medical Center, Burbank, California; Corona Regional Medical Center, Corona, California; Santa Ana Hospital, Santa Ana, California; and Coastal Communities Hospital, Santa Ana, California.
He is a fellow of The Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity and a member of the American Society of Bioethics and the Humanities.
Dr. Rae lives in Irvine, California, with his wife Sally and three boys, Taylor, Cameron, and Austin.

Source: http://www.cbhd.org/aboutcbhd/fellows/rae.htm

This is the second thread in which you have made similar remarks (about not knowing enough to comment). If you have nothing to add to the discussion then just don't comment.

Secondly, If you are unwilling to discuss abortion why raise it (or respond to it) as an off topic subject in another thread?

You see in another thread that was not specifcally about abortion you also stated:

Then for one so schooled in logic, it is amazing that you fail to see that you are confusing your interpretation of scripture for the teaching of scripture.

You are attempting to argue hermenutics here. However, you fail to point out any error in the hermeneutical principles I use, or errors in the exegesis of the texts based upon said hermeneutics, or errors in the interpretation derived from said exegesis. Likewise, it is not solely "my interpretation." My interpretation agrees with a vast number of conservative Theologians on this issue. However, I do realize that we could both stack up accounts of Theologians who disagree over the issue. So numbers don't matter. The point is to disprove their arguments by exposing their hermeneutical errors, their exegetical errors, or their intrepretive errors.

Of course a fetus is a developing human life. But nowhere in scripture does it say life begins at the exact time of conception. In fact, it takes quite a leap of logic to assert such, since there is silence on the matter. Typical scripture used to support your view would be John the Baptist in Elizabeth's uterus and the verse about God knowing us before we were formed. Neither of these address early term pregnancy or even conception prior to implantation. Neither science, nor scripture, have an answer to this question.

Read the material I quoted from noted Christian Ethicist, Scott B. Rae, and then make this argument showing where Rae is wrong regarding what the Scritures say by showing his hermeneutical errors, his exegetical errors, and/or interpretive errors (if any).

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Firstly, I provided detailed quotes of Scott Rae's positions including the reference source. All you'd have to do is read them and then discuss whether you agree with him or not.

No, I really don't care what Mr. Rae has to say on the matter.

This is the second thread in which you have made similar remarks (about not knowing enough to comment). If you have nothing to add to the discussion then just don't comment.

I will comment when I want, where I want. You invoked a quote from me from another thread. You were goading me to engage in this debate. I merely told you I am not biting.

Read the material I quoted from noted Christian Ethicist, Scott B. Rae, and then make this argument showing where Rae is wrong regarding what the Scritures say by showing his hermeneutical errors, his exegetical errors, and/or interpretive errors (if any).

See the previous answers. I have no desire to talk about it here, nor any interest whatsoever in what this Scott Rae's opinion is.

 

[Bible-boy]

No, I really don't care what Mr. Rae has to say on the matter.

So you are not interested in coming to the BB to debate and discuss issues in a civil and rational manner. Okay.

I will comment when I want, where I want.

Okay, and I assume that you will not mind when your off-topic and unrelated posts are reported as such.

You invoked a quote from me from another thread. You were goading me to engage in this debate. I merely told you I am not biting.

Nope. I made the mistake of thinking that you seriously wanted to discuss/debate the abortion issue when you raised it as an off topic subject in another thread. I simply tried to provide a thread specifcally on that topic.

See the previous answers. I have no desire to talk about it here, nor any interest whatsoever in what this Scott Rae's opinion is.

So you have no interest in learning about a completely reasonable and biblical position that may contradict your currently held position. Interestng. You may as well stuff your fingers in your ears, close your eyes real tight and yell LA LA LA. Again, if this is the case why come to the BB and raise the abortion issue in a thread that was not specifically about abortion? That smacks of Trolling.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

So you are not interested in coming to the BB to debate and discuss issues in a civil and rational manner. Okay.

Have I been giving you too much credit for rational thought? Nowhere do I say anything close to this. Don't have a clue how you derive such an idea.

So you have no interest in learning about a completely reasonable and biblical position that may contradict your currently held position. Interestng. You may as well stuff your fingers in your ears, close your eyes real tight and yell LA LA LA. Again, if this is the case why come to the BB and raise the abortion issue in a thread that was not specifically about abortion? That smacks of Trolling.

Be careful who you call a troll. This smacks of a personal attack on a longstanding participant in these boards. I participate fully in threads I deem of interest. I am not going back to find the context of what I posted in another thread, but you can bet it was in response to another comment. I tend to stay away from abortion threads and discussions.

And again, I have no interest in discussing Mr. Rae's opinions, your repeated goading and attacks notwithstanding. As I have also stated, I have zero desire to participate in yet another ridiculous thread on abortion that will devolve into attacks (you are getting close) and name calling (e.g. "baby killer"). Don't need it.

 

[Bible-boy]

Okay, so is there anyone else out there that would seriously like to discuss the abortion issue in a civil and rational manner?

 

[LadyEagle]

Bible-boy, the posts, along with flippant replies on a serious subject, speak clearly for themselves to all of us and to those who stop by to read the BB.

It was summed up best by this earlier quote:

There can be no debate when it comes to taking the life of an unborn child. We are called to a standard of Holiness, and killing an unborn life is not reflective of Holiness.

On that note, I am closing this thread.