The Abrahamic Problem

[savedbymercy]

dhk

According to you he doesn't need to be saved.

I have never said that, but I see you skated around the question ! I'll ask you again. You asked a poster this:

Suppose a man is drowning in the midst of the ocean. What does he need to be saved?

I asked you this:

I have a better question, suppose a man has drowned in the midst of the ocean. What does he need to be saved ?

 

[DHK]

dhk

I have never said that, but I see you skated around the question ! I'll ask you again. You asked a poster this:

I asked you this:

I asked a question. You answered it with another question. I don't consider that a valid answer.

 

[savedbymercy]

I asked a question. You answered it with another question. I don't consider that a valid answer.

You always have excuses for running from the Truth ! Think about it ! How does God save one from Death ?

 

[Fred's Wife]

You always have excuses for running from the Truth ! Think about it !

That was not an excuse. You were asked a valid question and you responded by asking another question. Why can't you answer a simple question?

How does God save one from Death ?

Everybody will experience "physical" death because we all live in a sin cursed world (Genesis 3:1-19):

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

God provided the ONLY WAY to save mankind from spiritual "death"

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Now answer the question which was asked you:

Suppose a man is drowning in the midst of the ocean. What does he need to be saved?

 

[savedbymercy]

fw

Everybody will experience "physical" death

You are off already. I am not speaking of physical death, but spiritual death, which is alienation, seperation from the Life of God !

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Being dead in sin Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

So again, How does God save one already drowned and who is dead ?

 

[savedbymercy]

fw

Everybody will experience "physical" death

You are off already. I am not speaking of physical death, but spiritual death, which is alienation, separation from the Life of God !

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Being dead in sin Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

So again, How does God save one already drowned and who is dead ?

 

[The Biblicist]

fw



You are off already. I am not speaking of physical death, but spiritual death, which is alienation, separation from the Life of God !

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Being dead in sin Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )


So again, How does God save one already drowned and who is dead ?

He needs to be regenerated and that does not occur before the world began because he was not spiritually dead before the world began.

Neither does it occur APART FROM THE GOSPEL because notice Ephesians 4;18's explanation of that alienation from the life of God -

"Having the understanding darkened.....through ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart"

Regeneration is by REVELATION or ENLIGHTENMENT and that comes through God empowering the Gospel as His creative word to call them out of darkness into his marvelous light - 2 Cor. 4:5-7; 2 Thes. 2:14; 1 Thes. 1:4-5; etc.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

He needs to be regenerated and that does not occur before the world began

Nobody said anything about anyone being regenerated before the world began. Another evasive rabbit trail statement !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Nobody said anything about anyone being regenerated before the world began. Another evasive rabbit trail statement !

No rabbit trail, because you have consistently presented your whole system of salvation as actual and literally pre-creation rather than merely by intent or purpose. You have the elect literally and actually justified before the world began rather than merely purposed by design. God cannot justify unregenerated people any more than he can glorify unregenerated people and so you are blatantly inconsistent - so no rabbit trail at all.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

No rabbit trail

Yes it is, no one said anything about one being regenerated before the foundation of the world !

 

[Yeshua1]

the bib



Yes it is, no one said anything about one being regenerated before the foundation of the world !

when does God save his elect, and how does he save them?

 

[The Biblicist]

No rabbit trail, because you have consistently presented your whole system of salvation as actual and literally pre-creation rather than merely by intent or purpose. You have the elect literally and actually justified before the world began rather than merely purposed by design. God cannot justify unregenerated people any more than he can glorify unregenerated people and so you are blatantly inconsistent - so no rabbit trail at all.

You are ignoring your own previously stated mold for all aspects of salvation listed in Romans 8:28-30. You previously demanded that every single aspect listed was actual and literal prior to creation and among these aspects is "called" or regeneration. So don't tell me I am inventing a rabbit trail when you are on public record dozens of times demanding all these salvational aspects occurred literally and actually prior to creation IN CONTRAST TO THE POSITION that they were merely purposed but not fulfilled prior to creation.

 

[DHK]

You always have excuses for running from the Truth ! Think about it ! How does God save one from Death ?

I am not the one running. This is the second time you have answered my question with a question. What is it with you? Can you not answer a straight forward question? Is intelligent debate beyond you? It is improper to answer a question with a question, which you have done twice now. Try again, a third time now.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

I am not the one running.

Then answer the question !

 

[DHK]

dhk



Then answer the question !

In post #51 I gave this hypothetical

No man loves God.
Therefore God will not save anyone.
Therefore heaven will be empty. I am so glad that your theology is not taught in the Bible.

Suppose a man is drowning in the midst of the ocean. What does he need to be saved? He needs someone with greater power than himself, to pull him out of the water and set him on solid ground. Spiritually that is what Christ does. However, going back to the story, if you are that one that is drowning, and someone with a rescue boat comes along to save you; are you going to assess whether you will love your potential rescuer or will you accept his help whether or not you personally like him? Will you really refuse his help because he may be that next door neighbor who is always contentious with you, even if you are drowning? Do you have to love him in order to be saved by him, or for him to save you? Really? Is that the case?

Then in post #55 you rudely came and posed this question without answering mine:

when does God save his elect, and how does he save them?

It was a supposed answer to the bolded part of the post above.

To be blunt: You are being rude and ignorant.
If you want to debate with yourself open a document in your own word processor called "debate with self," and continue on. But don't do it here.
Answering questions with questions is not debate.