The Absolute Sovereignty of God

[Brightfame52]

BF you have been shown the error of your thinking but you will not actually trust the word of God but rather your false religious view of God.

I will continue to point out the errors you post but as for now I will let God deal with you.

May He forgive you for the way you have mistreated His word have mercy on your soul.

Could Judas had chosen not to betray Christ by his own freewill ? Yes or No and did he choose to do it willingly or forced to do it ?

 

[Silverhair]

Yeah all actions of man are under Gods control, his entire walk or steps are ordered by the Lord. Lets look at Jeremiah 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

If man doesnt direct his steps as the ho;y prophet understands, who does ?

Prov 16:9

A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Learn wisdom friend, God directs a man steps. Do you know what a mans steps are ?

So according to your view God is the author of all the sin and evil in the world.

Not a biblical view but you seem comfortable with charging Him with it so you will have to answer to Him for that.

 

[Silverhair]

Could Judas had chosen not to betray Christ by his own freewill ? Yes or No and did he choose to do it willingly or forced to do it ?

Well why stop at Judas, if all men do as God determines they do then that makes God the ultimate sinner. Or could they do other than what God determined they do BF?

Determinism or free will BF those are the options.

Why are you a detreminist BF? What made you follow that path?

 

[KenH]

Again I have to ask, do you think there is a difference between God being "sovereign" and Him being "absolutely sovereign"?

See my post #11 above.

 

[KenH]

Determinism or free will BF those are the options.

Actually, Silverhair, the options are: is salvation 100% the work of God, or is salvation only partly the work of the God and partly, to some degree, dependent upon fallen man.

The Bible teaches that salvation is 100% of the LORD.

Free-willers teach, falsely, that salvation is a kind of joint venture - God has a part and fallen man has a part.

I believe God's Word and understand that I can't lift my little finger to do anything to save myself, that God does it all, 100%, and must do it all, 100%, in order for any of His elect to be saved.

 

[Brightfame52]

So according to your view God is the author of all the sin and evil in the world.

Not a biblical view but you seem comfortable with charging Him with it so you will have to answer to Him for that.

See the scripture, thats what its according to.

Do you know what a mans steps are ?

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Well why stop at Judas,

Why not ? He a person like everyone else. So Could Judas had chosen not to betray Christ by his own freewill ? Yes or No and did he choose to do it willingly or forced to do it ?

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Your view would make God responsible for all the sin and evil in the world no matter how much you try to deny this. Either man has a God given free will or he does not.

Actually God predetermined that man be responsible for all the sin and evil in the world, as well as He determined whom He would have mercy on for their sin and evil, and who He would punish for their sin and evil they did with their own freewill. How you like that ?

 

[KenH]

Why not ? He a person like everyone else. So Could Judas had chosen not to betray Christ by his own freewill ? Yes or No and did he choose to do it willingly or forced to do it ?

Lots of folks think that God being "sovereign", in their view, is just that God looked through a "telescope" down through history and that God is just a really, really, really good predictor and has been able to make some moves to accomplish some of His aims and desires. Now, obviously, they also think that God fails in achieving all of His aims and desires, as they teach that Christ Jesus died for every single person and that God is desperately trying to save every single person and yet He will come nowhere near achieving such a task.

They believe that their will is superior to God's will, as they believe that they can thwart God's will.

As I've said before on this board, they falsely think that the God revealed in the Bible is like the gods of Greek mythology or the superheroes of modern day Marvel movies - they think that God might be really, really powerful, but that He is subject to failure.

 

[KenH]

@Silverhair



Actually God predetermined that man be responsible for all the sin and evil in the world, as well as He determined whom He would have mercy on for their sin and evil, and who He would punish for their sin and evil they did with their own freewill. How you like that ?

The free-willers think that they can judge God. They think, "Well, that's not the way I would do it" based on their personal values, and think that God must be just like them and act just like they would act in a given situation.

God has said otherwise:

Psalm 50:21 Thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself.

 

[Silverhair]

See my post #11 above.

I have to ask where do you get the silly idea that man thinks he is sovereign?

 

[KenH]

I have to ask where do you get the silly idea that man thinks he is sovereign?

Don't free-willers believe that, ultimately, they can prevent God from saving them, if they don't do "their part"?

 

[Silverhair]

Actually, Silverhair, the options are: is salvation 100% the work of God, or is salvation only partly the work of the God and partly, to some degree, dependent upon fallen man.

The Bible teaches that salvation is 100% of the LORD.

Free-willers teach, falsely, that salvation is a kind of joint venture - God has a part and fallen man has a part.

I believe God's Word and understand that I can't lift my little finger to do anything to save myself, that God does it all, 100%, and must do it all, 100%, in order for any of His elect to be saved.

You have just shown that you do not understand free will.

God has set the condition for salvation, faith in His son. Those that meet that condition will be saved by Him. Man does not contribute top to or save himself, that is just a false flag of the C/R's.

Do you not have Rom 1:16 in your bible?
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Or what about Act 16:30-31?
Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

We do not, cannot save ourselves but God is gracious and saves those that believe.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

We cannot earn our salvation, it is the gift of God
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[KenH]

God has set the condition for salvation, faith in His son. Those that meet that condition will be saved by Him. Man does not contribute top to or save himself, that is just a false flag of the C/R's.

Just as I pointed out - free willers think that they can prevent God from saving them, even though they teach that He desperately wants to, by refusing to do, by their own fallen will in Adam, "their part".

The truth is, as God's elect learn under the preaching of the gospel of Christ and the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, that Christ Jesus met ALL of the conditions for the salvation of God's elect. He finished the work on their behalf.

John 19:30 "It is finished."

 

[Silverhair]

Don't free-willers believe that, ultimately, they can prevent God from saving them, if they don't do "their part"?

Your use of "prevent" points to your error in thinking Ken.

God does not force people to be saved which your choice of the word "prevent" would suggest.

You think God picked out a select group before the foundation of the world that would be saved no matter what.

God desires all to be saved and actually draws all to Him so they can be saved but the person is responsible for the choice they make either to trust in or reject Him.

So they do not prevent God from saving them but rather they reject the only means of their salvation.

 

[KenH]

We cannot earn our salvation, it is the gift of God

If free-willers truly believed that salvation is a gift, then they would also know there is nothing for them to do, of their own fallen "free will", to be saved. Yet free-willers put various conditions on the being saved, depending on their various systems(growing up in the Church of Christ, I was taught I had to hear, believe, confess that Jesus is the Son of God, repent of my sins, and be immersed in water, and then try to keep my nose clean the rest of the my earthly life). Free-willers set conditions for salvation, they don't believe that God is 100% responsible for a person's salvation.

 

[KenH]

God desires all to be saved and actually draws all to Him so they can be saved but the person is responsible for the choice they make either to trust in or reject Him.

Thus, you are admitting that you think you are sovereign over your salvation. You have been throwing around the word "responsibility" as a characteristic in discussing the sovereignty of God, so by your use of the word regarding man in the matter of salvation, you are admitting that you think that you are sovereign in regards to your salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

Just as I pointed out - free willers think that they can prevent God from saving them, even though they teach that He desperately wants to, by refusing to do, by their own fallen will in Adam, "their part".

The truth is, as God's elect learn under the preaching of the gospel of Christ and the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, that Christ Jesus met ALL of the conditions for the salvation of God's elect. He finished the work on their behalf.

John 19:30 "It is finished."

You betray your bias by the choice of your words Ken.

You have followed a false religion and have misunderstood the word of God.

The gift of salvation is offered to mankind and God desires that all would come to Him but He will not force anyone to do so.

Those that trust in Him will be saved those the reject Him will be lost.

One is only elect when they are in the elect one, Jesus Christ. We are only in Jesus through faith.

Christ Jesus met ALL of the conditions for the salvation of those that would freely trust in Him.

 

[KenH]

Christ Jesus met ALL of the conditions for the salvation of those that would freely trust in Him.

That is not what you are teaching. You claim that man has to, by his fallen will in Adam, meet a condition.

The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit must sovereignly regenerate a person and grant that person the gift of faith, before that person will have faith in the finished work of Christ Jesus.

 

[Silverhair]

If free-willers truly believed that salvation is a gift, then they would also know there is nothing for them to do, of their own fallen "free will", to be saved. Yet free-willers put various conditions on the being saved, depending on their various systems(growing up in the Church of Christ, I was taught I had to hear, believe, confess that Jesus is the Son of God, repent of my sins, and be immersed in water, and then try to keep my nose clean the rest of the my earthly life). Free-willers set conditions for salvation, they don't believe that God is 100% responsible for a person's salvation.

Salvation can not be earned Ken but God has set the condition of receiving that Gift, faith in His son.

I know you have these verses in your bible so I have to wonder why you deny them?
Act 16:30 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." [Rom 10:9-10, Joh 1:11-12, Rom_3:21-26, Rom_5:1-2 ]

If you continue to deny clear scripture you will never understand the truths of the word of God.