the "all" verse 18 and the "many" in 19

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Wait a minute! I thought "there is none that does good, no not one!" How can they "know better" if they are totally and completely depraved?

Every man has a conscience and knows the difference between right and wrong. Yet they are not willing to submit themselves to the God of the universe. Knowing right from wrong is far different from being willing to submit to God.

Once again, this is basic knowledge. How do you not know this if you claim to know as much as you do? That is confusing to me. You make firm dogmatic statements about how wrong Calvinists are but yet show that you do not even know what Calvinists believe. How can you be so sure about something you do not appear to know much about?

 

[KenH]

(Rom 1:19-21 NKJV) because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. {20} For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, {21} because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Ken

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Every man has a conscience and knows the difference between right and wrong. Yet they are not willing to submit themselves to the God of the universe. Knowing right from wrong is far different from being willing to submit to God.

Once again, this is basic knowledge. How do you not know this if you claim to know as much as you do? That is confusing to me. You make firm dogmatic statements about how wrong Calvinists are but yet show that you do not even know what Calvinists believe. How can you be so sure about something you do not appear to know much about?[/QB]

Guess I'm just giving too much credence to Calvin again. You know, it gets really confusing trying to delineate between the different types of Calvinism - those that follow Calvin, those who do the five-point thing, infralapsarian, prelapsarian, four-pointers, and so on and so forth.

Apparently, your brand of Calvinism is different than what Calvin set forth in his theology.

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Ken Hamilton:
(Rom 1:19-21 NKJV) because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. {20} For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, {21} because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Ken

Is this a response with Larry or is does this have something to do with reason?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Apparently, your brand of Calvinism is different than what Calvin set forth in his theology.

That I woulnd't know since I haven't read Calvin. My "calvinism" comes from Scripture. I have read some others on Calvinism and know that, as I have demonstrated, much of what you are arguing against has nothing to do with what we believe.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Apparently, your brand of Calvinism is different than what Calvin set forth in his theology.

Calvinism is a nickname for TULIP which also includes a worldview of God as absolutely sovereign. Within that there are differences just like there are differences among other groups such open theists, premillennialists, postmillennialists, amillennialists, Baptists, Methodists, etc.

Ken

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Is this a response with Larry or is does this have something to do with reason?

Those Scriptures are teaching that even if a person does not hear or read the gospel they are still without excuse. They have been given the light that is common to all people and should know to worship God but they do not because they are totally depraved. Having light is not equivalent to the the drawing of the Father.

Ken

[ July 04, 2002, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

[tyndale1946]

"Bump"

 

[Ray Berrian]

If you all believe in the 'image of God' remaining in all human beings even after the Fall, it makes it that much more ridiculous to believe in the bondage of the sinners will.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
If you all believe in the 'image of God' remaining in all human beings even after the Fall, it makes it that much more ridiculous to believe in the bondage of the sinners will.

Ray, I have shown you to be wrong and you even agreed that you misunderstood it back then. Are you regressing here into misrepresentation?