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Well, we have to look at the obivous. Let's keep in context of the thread. There was no agrument that the Colonists were under the authority of England. If you are in the midst of that being worked out, then you sit out and wait for it to be answered by winners and loosers.. Most importantly, how do you determine what or who is the governing authority? There has to be some kind of definition. It appears to me that those who wish to rebel against authority they do not like need only go so far as to "prove" that the authority they rebel against does not count. You need some kind of understanding, but I do not see it in scripture. Perhaps you could point me to it.
The Sumpreme Court can not enforce the laws, the executive does. So if the President decides to make bearing arms against the law, going against the consititution,we would obey. There is nothing wrong with obeying this law, even if it goes against the Consititution. Believers should not get involved with the cares of this life/politics, just let them work it out.3. Similarly, what if different parts of the same government disagree? You said the Consititution is not who we submit too, but the ones who interpret it. OK, but what do we do if the President where to ignore the Supreme Court? Are we to submit to the Supreme Court or the President? If it is the President, then wouldn't you have meant to say those who ENFORCE the constitution?
When it is in flux there would be nothing wrong to fight for the present authority, if and when it becomes clear one side looses you obey the new authority.4. Finally, what about when your country is taken over by outside forces? Do the outside forces immediately become the governing authorities? What if your previous government still exists, but not in the territory you live in? This seems like it would be a common problem (take the French in WWII for instance).
The only definition we have is for us to obey the guy who is in charge, who is holding the sword. Asking who is in authority is, is missing the obvious. We know who the authority is, Patimen.It all comes down to definition of a government. We must have some definition that can work, and perhaps there is scripture I have overlooked that makes this clear.
Well, no plan we humans concoct is perfect. So, using your definition of "good", there is NO "GOOD" government on earth. The author of this passage knows that, I imagine. He's not claiming that governments are the spotless, perfect example by which we should live our lives. He's saying obey the laws established by government. You seem to be reading into the text things which do not apply to this passage.Originally posted by patimen:
If you still believe 3 and 4 describe anything like the real world, I would be curious to see which governments you think live up to this today, or during history.