The Amish

[Luke2427]

Well hello friend! Bummed because I cant get out to Scranton today because of the snow storm. My friends funeral. I hate walking into RC Churches though. More because this was the one that baptised me as a baby.

So your writing a paper on Anabaptists. Did it also include their own bloody & violent past history?

Yes. Apostolic Successionists and Baptist who believe they have an unbroken line all the way back to John the Baptist love to reference the Anabaptists.

Of course they are not very quick to acknowledge their heresies and their anarchist origins. Thomas Muntzer was one of the founders, at least propagators of the Anabaptists and he lead in the Peasant's War which cost about 100,000 lives.

For these reasons, the antecedent suppression of Anabaptists seems reasonable to me.

And though we would agree with some of their tenets including religious liberty, separation of church and state and, of course, credobaptism we cannot honestly trace our baptist roots to them, imo.

Let the Mennonites have this odd movement.

 

[calvin]

Yes. Apostolic Successionists and Baptist who believe they have an unbroken line all the way back to John the Baptist love to reference the Anabaptists.

Of course they are not very quick to acknowledge their heresies and their anarchist origins. Thomas Muntzer was one of the founders, at least propagators of the Anabaptists and he lead in the Peasant's War which cost about 100,000 lives.

For these reasons, the antecedent suppression of Anabaptists seems reasonable to me.

And though we would agree with some of their tenets including religious liberty, separation of church and state and, of course, credobaptism we cannot honestly trace our baptist roots to them, imo.

Let the Mennonites have this odd movement.

you really cannot blame this on the anabaptist. they have always been a "peace" church Menno simons was their founder, and he soundly condemned the Muntzerites rebellion. you can read his own words in the Teachings of Menno Simons. this is a collection of works that puts together all of his teachings. the Amish came after, because Jacob Amon wanted stricter discipline, and believed in the practice of shunning. the Baptist founder himself, John Smyth, came later, and at the end of his life, returned to the Mennonite faith. its more complex than most people realize. and no one can trace our roots to John the Baptist or anywhere near that. even the Martyres Mirror is somewhat ambiguous as to who these martyrs were. the Baptist faith was not founded until Menno Simons, broke from the Catholic Church. at around the same time as Luther and Calvin. just a little hisorical perspective. :type:

 

[Jerome]

the antecedent suppression of Anabaptists seems reasonable to me.

Please elaborate.

 

[kyredneck]

and dont forget, they know how to cook. Mennonites and Amish both. it doesnt matter what the occasion is, if you leave hungry, its your fault!:smilewinkgrin: ive been to many Mennonite services in the past. the worship is much more simple. my former wifes family was more conservative, so the singing was acapella, no instruments. followed by reading the bible, and the preaching of the word. the pastors are not college educated, and were chosen by lot. the Amish do this the same way. their pastors also hold outside jobs. but once ordained hold that for life, unless there is a moral reason for them not to. they also once a month had what was called carry in dinner. everyone brings a dish. the Church was small, but even 20 people can make alot of food.

In all honesty, aside from choosing their pastors by lot, this description fits most any Primitive Baptist Church in these parts.

[edit] this is not referring to doctrines!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We used to take my son & some other families to the "Sight & Sound" theatre in Lancaster Pa. Really some beautiful productions of Christmas & Easter with live animals & the whole works.

After that we would go to a house that served ton's of food family style....mashed potatoes & gravy & shoofly pie to die for.

Thats a nice family experience if you ever get the chance.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

you really cannot blame this on the anabaptist. they have always been a "peace" church Menno simons was their founder, and he soundly condemned the Muntzerites rebellion. you can read his own words in the Teachings of Menno Simons. this is a collection of works that puts together all of his teachings. the Amish came after, because Jacob Amon wanted stricter discipline, and believed in the practice of shunning. the Baptist founder himself, John Smyth, came later, and at the end of his life, returned to the Mennonite faith. its more complex than most people realize. and no one can trace our roots to John the Baptist or anywhere near that. even the Martyres Mirror is somewhat ambiguous as to who these martyrs were. the Baptist faith was not founded until Menno Simons, broke from the Catholic Church. at around the same time as Luther and Calvin. just a little hisorical perspective. :type:

But we can trace it back to groups of Reformed Baptist out of Wales even before Smyth in the early 17th Century. That we have done on this Board recently

 

[kyredneck]

But we can trace it back to groups of Reformed Baptist out of Wales even before Smyth in the early 17th Century. That we have done on this Board recently

EWF, where was this discussed, I'd like to check it out.

 

[calvin]

But we can trace it back to groups of Reformed Baptist out of Wales even before Smyth in the early 17th Century. That we have done on this Board recently

Hi EWF. would this be Hugh Evans, forming his congregation in 1646? or are we talking earlier. just trying to make sure im on the same page as you. thanks in advance :1_grouphug:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh heck ....ole jim on here has that all down ....Im just gettin up 5am. All I recall was it was in Wales early 1600...maybe 1630's

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

OK THIS IS FROM ANOTHER CONVERSATION

Didn't Baptists really start in Wales in 1633 as a flip to Presbyterian Westminster Confessions where they differed in the form of baptism...IE Paedo vs Credo. Weren't they really Particular (Reformed) Baptists ....at that point they would have been Covenantal & mirriored much of the Presbyterian ways finally coming up with their own covenant in 1688-89.

For Example (Taken from Llanelli History)

1633 The first Baptist Church in Wales Olchon, on the Welsh and Brecknockshire border seems to have been the birthplace of Nonconformity and the oldest Baptist Church was established there in 1633. Close to the site of the old church and on the hill above it Capel-y-ffin, or the Boundary Chapel, was also built.

1649 The second Baptist Church in Wales was built at Ilston, Gower, around 1649 and John Miles was the first minister. Baptists continued to worship at Ilston for 50 years until around 1698 when they moved to Swansea.

The third Baptist Church in Wales was established at Llanharan, Glamorgan, in 1649 before it moved to Llantrissant, then to Craigyrallt and then to Berthlwyd. Because they did not have a suitable meeting house they built a chapel at Hengoed in 1710.

1650 The three Baptist churches of Olchon, Ilston and Llanharan, formed the first Baptist Association of Wales and held their initial meeting at Ilston on the 6th and 7th days of the ninth month in the year 1650. At this first meeting the members decided to hold a “means of grace†in Carmarthen and district, to support the church at Llanharan, and to defray the expenses of the missionaries, who travelled around the country preaching their message.

 

[kyredneck]

OK THIS IS FROM ANOTHER CONVERSATION

Didn't Baptists really start in Wales in 1633 as a flip to Presbyterian Westminster Confessions where they differed in the form of baptism...IE Paedo vs Credo. Weren't they really Particular (Reformed) Baptists ....at that point they would have been Covenantal & mirriored much of the Presbyterian ways finally coming up with their own covenant in 1688-89.

For Example (Taken from Llanelli History)

1633 The first Baptist Church in Wales Olchon, on the Welsh and Brecknockshire border seems to have been the birthplace of Nonconformity and the oldest Baptist Church was established there in 1633. Close to the site of the old church and on the hill above it Capel-y-ffin, or the Boundary Chapel, was also built.

1649 The second Baptist Church in Wales was built at Ilston, Gower, around 1649 and John Miles was the first minister. Baptists continued to worship at Ilston for 50 years until around 1698 when they moved to Swansea.

The third Baptist Church in Wales was established at Llanharan, Glamorgan, in 1649 before it moved to Llantrissant, then to Craigyrallt and then to Berthlwyd. Because they did not have a suitable meeting house they built a chapel at Hengoed in 1710.

1650 The three Baptist churches of Olchon, Ilston and Llanharan, formed the first Baptist Association of Wales and held their initial meeting at Ilston on the 6th and 7th days of the ninth month in the year 1650. At this first meeting the members decided to hold a “means of grace†in Carmarthen and district, to support the church at Llanharan, and to defray the expenses of the missionaries, who travelled around the country preaching their message.

Check this brother's work out. I've heard Brother Ivey preach at Lexington (as a visiting elder):

http://www.pb.org/pbdocs/chhist5.html

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I will.....after coffee.

Do you follow 1689?

 

[kyredneck]

I will.....after coffee.

Do you follow 1689?

Yes. But as Brother Ivey brings out, the 1655 Midland Association Confession of Faith, the 1777 Reformed Kehukee Association Articles of Faith, and the 1816 Sandy Creek Association Principles of Faith don't say everything that the London and Philidelphia Confessions do.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes. But as Brother Ivey brings out, the 1655 Midland Association Confession of Faith, the 1777 Reformed Kehukee Association Articles of Faith, and the 1816 Sandy Creek Association Principles of Faith don't say everything that the London and Philidelphia Confessions do.

Interesting read specifically about the Welsh Ive got relatives from there ....all Particular Baptists & others of English & Welsh stock that were Anglican who met over there & converted to Calvinist Methodists & started a church in Latrobe Pennsylvania. They eventually moved to Eastern Pa around Scranton where there is still large Welsh communities. There is still a Reformed Baptist Church in Plymouth Pa that teaches the language and Primitive Methodist Churches but the Calvinist Methodist church is extinct....blended to the Presbyterian USA movement (extremely liberal). Now I'm very interested in the "Landmark" connections to a pure Christian line from the Welsh. Prior to this, I thought it all hog wash.

 

[kyredneck]

Interesting read specifically about the Welsh Ive got relatives from there ....all Particular Baptists & others of English & Welsh stock that were Anglican who met over there & converted to Calvinist Methodists & started a church in Latrobe Pennsylvania. They eventually moved to Eastern Pa around Scranton where there is still large Welsh communities. There is still a Reformed Baptist Church in Plymouth Pa that teaches the language and Primitive Methodist Churches but the Calvinist Methodist church is extinct....blended to the Presbyterian USA movement (extremely liberal). Now I'm very interested in the "Landmark" connections to a pure Christian line from the Welsh. Prior to this, I thought it all hog wash.

Beware of the Phariseeism of Landmarkism.