The Anglican Church openly turns against Israel.

The REC likewise has no formal policy towards the middle east. But that many Christians in America blindly love Isreal is sad. This should not be the case. I believe both Isreal and Palestine are at fault for the terrorism and death that has been happening over there. I believe Isreal should back off and let the Palestinians have some land. Remember God told Isreal in the OT to kill everyone in the land but they didn't and know they are just reaping the consequences.

 

Hogwash! That's like saying all Irishmen are terrorists. We put up with enough of their killings in London to believe that, but we try to live with reality and get on with it.

Some people think all gentiles are anti-semitic. Anytime anyone offers criticism of a Jew is anti-semitic, or criticism of Israel is anti-Christian because we don't accept the mythical concept of premillennialism and especially dispensationalism. To be anti-semitic is to deny the very personage of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that is a huge charge against us. We reject it and deplore it.

Cheers,

Jim

 

That's good preaching. God bless you brother.

 

No,its like saying not all Roman Catholics are Irish republican terrorists but most (if not all) Irish republican terrorists are Roman Catholics. This is an undeniable fact. The same is true of amillennialism and anti-Semitism in the church. I am glad you reject it and deplore it, but not all amillenialists do, and their theology does not check their objectionable views.

Premillennialists give a natural honour to the nation of Israel believing she shall be restored to her eternal pupose at the close of time. Granted, some premillennialists can go overboard and never apply objective judgment to Israel's actions, but you will not find anti-Semitism among any of them. Amillennialists cannot say this.

 

Again, Hogwash! It is like saying all Ulstermen are innocent of violence and terrorism. You can't have me on, mate. I grew up in England.

I have seen anti-semitism up close and real. I don't think millennial views have anything to do with it. Most Orangemen are anti-semites as well as anti-Catholic, and most are alcoholic, not millennialists.

Get real, and grow up.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Jim,

Normally your posts are very gracious, but it seems that I have hit a nerve here. Most Orangemen are alcoholics, most are anti-Semitic? What a broad sweep! I think the Temperance lodges would take issue with the first and most Orangemen with the second given that most of their forefathers fought in WWII against Nazism. In unionist/loyalist North Belfast, from where I come, they fly the Israeli flag alongside the Ulster flag. they support Israel in their defence against terrorism - a strange act indeed for people whom you have ignorantly labelled anti-Semitic. The only synagogue in Belfast is in that part of the world and the Jews are left alone to practice their religion in peace. It seems to me, my brother, that you have honed in on my birthplace as an opportunity to hurl cheap insults at my countrymen. FYI Jim I have never been an Orangeman, nor will I ever be one. Why are you being so vitriolic? Its not like you. Why don't you stick with the subject and deny that within Christendom most anti-Semites are amillennial - its a fact, and it cannot be denied.

Please don't come back telling me to "grow up" - it doesn't become you or this debate. BTW now that I am living in England I have come to the conclusion that most Englishmen know about as much about Irish politics, history & cultures (North or South) as I do about
Malawi.

 

Oh, and BTW, Orangemen (if they are theologically aware) are generally amillennial.

 

OK, Ben, let's put this in some context.

1. The Church of England has historically given money to various Israeli charities/ NGOs.

2. It recently discovered that some of that money was being redirected to a company which manufactures bulldozers used to demolish Palestinian homes in the Occupied Territories.

3. Quite rightly, upon discovering this, it has decided for the moment to stop further payments of money towards those charities until they promise to stop funding the above injustice.

This is NOT a case of the CofE 'switching sides' to suppport Hamas, and I'm not quite sure therefore why Sacks has got his knickers in a twist and is playing the anti-semitic card here; he would do far better to use his considerable advocacy and lobbying skills to persuade the Israeli NGOs concerned to change their policy.

 

Then whatever problems they may have at least they are scriptural on this point.

 

Why could the Anglican church not use other means to ensure their donations are used in a manner they approve of?

The C of E donates to other causes which I am sure misuse their money?

The C of E have millions tied up in invests and I am sure not all of their investments are pure and without blemish.

What they have done is sent out a clear signal against Israel. More and more people are voicing anti-Semitic ideas and feelings.

Are all amillennialists anti-semitic? Absolutely not? Does amillennialism lend itself to anti-semitism? Sadly, yes.

When Augustus and others started bringing their worldly philosophy into the theological realm the spiritualising of Scriptures took a massive leap into the main stream. That eventually led to the amill position and enabled the growth and atrocities of the RCC.

The Anglican church has made a move against God's people. A move we do not see them making on other causes that misuse their money.

 

Such as...?

Quite possibly. But they may not be aware of all the misuses. They were aware of this one.

So what the heck should they have done? Continued financially supporting this unjust cause? This is not different to my mind to when I discovered that Barclays Bank were investing in the apartheid regime in South Africa in the 1980s. I withdrew my account from them and wrote to them to tell them why. I was no more 'turning against the people of South Africa' then than the CofE are 'turning against the people of Israel' now; in fact, they may even be helping a few Israeli and Palestinian citizens by avoiding them being made homeless.

Now, please tell me, what on earth is 'turning against Israel' and what on earth is wrong about that??

 

I think that pre-mills are guilty of spiritualizing scripture. Afterall, I take Matt. 13 literal and no dispy pre-mill does. Has for making a move against the people of God the last time I checked I did not see them doing anything TO PERSECUTE THE BODY OF CHRIST.

 

I think that pre-mills are guilty of spiritualizing scripture. Afterall, I take Matt. 13 literal and no dispy pre-mill does. Has for making a move against the people of God the last time I checked I did not see them doing anything TO PERSECUTE THE BODY OF CHRIST. The people of God are those who have faith in Christ Jesus not some religious cult in Palestine. A good reading of Romans and Galatians will reveal this to you.

 

Sorry for double-post but missed the edit window. My last sentence should have read "Now what on earth is wrong with that and how on earth is that 'turning against Israel'?

 

What else could they have done? Well, there has not been anything said about discussions or warnings given to Israel. They have not re-invested money elsewhere in Israel, they just took it out.

There must be more to it than meets the eye. This is a paragraph from the original article:

Neither the former Archbishop or the church paper seem to agree with the move.

The funds have been withdrawn from Israel and that will effect the people. So this is an indication of the C of E's changing position.

Matt. 13 is a big chapter. Which verses do you refer to?

Do you refer to Israel as a religious cult?

I realise that the church is the body of Christ, His bride and in that sense are God's people. But Israel are also God's people in a different sense. But there we have the major point in our disagreement.

 

Interesting topic.

If I say "Muslims are lost and reject the Triune God", I'll get tons of people who agree. If I say "Jews are lost and reject the Triune God", then I'll be called an anti-semite. Go figure.

 

Pulling funds from Israel especially when those funds were being used to buy bulldozers to destroy innocent's homes is not justified. Jesus loved the Samaritans the Jews would be wise to follow in Christ's footsteps.

 

These people are very arrogant. We are supposed to be sending money to people who obviously don't want it? Notice the above poster who lives in Israel he called every nation but Israel "evil". We should still love the Jews Christ wept over Jerusalem but at the same time there government is not something we as Christians should be supporting.

 

3-page warning: This thread will be closed no sooner than 12:30 a.m. ET by one of the Moderators.

Lady Eagle,
Moderator

 

Closed at 0730