The answer is *not* 'arm the students'

[Matt Black]

Interesting article here gives the lie to gun-whackos who say arming teachers is the answer.

I just pray that this terrible tragedy will give an impetus to crack down on gun ownership so that the deaths of these poor children will not have been in vain.raying:

 

[Oldtimer]

Interesting article here gives the lie to gun-whackos who say arming teachers is the answer.

I just pray that this terrible tragedy will give an impetus to crack down on gun ownership so that the deaths of these poor children will not have been in vain.raying:

No serious person today is questioning the right of Americans to own guns, and without a doubt, you can find numerous cases in which guns have saved lives. But on balance, with the data available, it’s close to impossible to make a convincing case that guns save lives. With 300 million guns already in circulation, it’s hard to see a perfect solution, but encouraging more guns is certainly not the answer.

Tell that to the Swiss.

In the right to bear arms debate, pro-gun Americans point to Switzerland, where almost every adult male is legally required to possess a gun. One of the few nations with a higher per capita rate of gun ownership than the United States, Switzerland has virtually no gun crime.

http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

Stats on England included here:
Myth #3: Gun Control Has Reduced The Crime Rates In Other Countries
http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

I pray that instead of blaming guns and applying gun control bandaids to "fix" the problem, America will address the multiple underlying causes that lead to these tragic deaths.

 

[Matt Black]

The insane gun laws don't exactly help, do they? To quote Eddie Izzard, "'Guns don't kill people, people kill people.' Yes, but guns help, don't they? I mean, you don't kill many people by pointing two fingers at them and shouting, 'Bang!'"

 

[Revmitchell]

Interesting article here gives the lie to gun-whackos who say arming teachers is the answer.

I just pray that this terrible tragedy will give an impetus to crack down on gun ownership so that the deaths of these poor children will not have been in vain.raying:

You guys can do whatever you want on your side of the pond. But gun ownership by law abiding citizens has nothing to do with this. And we, on this side of the pond, have a constitutional right to gun ownership.

 

[Matt Black]

I take it you've read the whole of the Second Amendment, not just the bit about the right to bear arms?

"A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...". Last time I looked, a 'well-regulated militia' was not giving any old Tom, Dick and Harry the 'right' to carry semi-automatic weapons....

How many more innocent deaths before the penny drops and this luncay ends?:tear:

And, Charlton, sorry, mate, but that moment is NOW!

 

[Revmitchell]

I take it you've read the whole of the Second Amendment, not just the bit about the right to bear arms?

"A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...". Last time I looked, a 'well-regulated militia' was not giving any old Tom, Dick and Harry the 'right' to carry semi-automatic weapons....

How many more innocent deaths before the penny drops and this luncay ends?:tear:

And, Charlton, sorry, mate, but that moment is NOW!

Yes well we will leave that to our courts who understand it far better than you. And have already ruled on this matter long ago. By the way the title of this op is odd. I know of no one who has suggested arming students. And again this has nothing to do with gun ownership of law abiding citizens.

 

[Oldtimer]

The insane gun laws don't exactly help, do they? To quote Eddie Izzard, "'Guns don't kill people, people kill people.' Yes, but guns help, don't they? I mean, you don't kill many people by pointing two fingers at them and shouting, 'Bang!'"

How do you propose to stop people from killing people?

Has the almost complete banning of guns in England stopped suicides? Has it stopped murder?

Fingers can kill. Do we cut off the fingers of all who have them because they can be lethal weapons. Pointing fingers don't kill. Fingers wrapped around a throat does kill.

 

[Matt Black]

We have a far far lower rate of gun deaths in the UK per capita. The below picture is out-of-date but still very pertinent - you do the math.​

 

[Matt Black]

Yes well we will leave that to our courts who understand it far better than you. And have already ruled on this matter long ago. By the way the title of this op is odd. I know of no one who has suggested arming students. And again this has nothing to do with gun ownership of law abiding citizens.

<Shrug>. It's up to you. I would have thought as a Christian that you would want ownership of death-dealing instruments restricted. But apparently not. So your brothers and sisters here will continue to pray for the scales to fall from your eyes and in the meantime wait fearfully for the next massacre of the innocents...:tear:

 

[Revmitchell]

<Shrug>. It's up to you. I would have thought as a Christian that you would want ownership of death-dealing instruments restricted. But apparently not. So your brothers and sisters here will continue to pray for the scales to fall from your eyes and in the meantime wait fearfully for the next massacre of the innocents...:tear:

My car can also be a death dealing instrument. I'm not getting rid of it either. You can pray all you want based on your skewed left wing view. It has nothing to do with being a Christian and everything to do with far left politics.

 

[Matt Black]

Nothing to do with 'left-wing' views (which, BTW, I don't particularly have: I have always voted Conservative:tongue3 but to do with the compassion of the Gospel.

I take it you use your car normally for purposes other than killing or maiming people as a rule? Would you use your gun for any other purpose? No. The only reason to use a gun is to deal death or injury to another individual, unlike a car. It's a straw man you've put up there.

 

[Revmitchell]

Nothing to do with 'left-wing' views (which, BTW, I don't particularly have: I have always voted Conservative:tongue3 but to do with the compassion of the Gospel.

I take it you use your car normally for purposes other than killing or maiming people as a rule? Would you use your gun for any other purpose? No. The only reason to use a gun is to deal death or injury to another individual, unlike a car. It's a straw man you've put up there.

It us not a strawman. We use many things that anyone who wants to kill can use for death or even mass death. Guns, by law abiding citizens are used for a number of things. They are used for target shooting (no death there) and they are used for self defense. Taking guns away will not stop the killing. Liberals always pick non answers to problems. And gun ownership does not effect the gospel. Talk about a strawman.

 

[Oldtimer]

We have a far far lower rate of gun deaths in the UK per capita. The below picture is out-of-date but still very pertinent - you do the math.

In a thread, can't remember which one right off the top of my head, I researched the stats presented in that graphic. That picture is much like taking a single verse from the scriptures and building a case around it to support something far from the full truth. The context is missing from that picture.

Why are UK deaths lower? Because traditionally, historically, they have always been lower.

North Carolina is bounded by the ocean on one side and a mountain chain on the other. People living in the mountains own far fewer boats than those as the coast. Should either be used as the "standard" when debating a boat ownership problem?

Care to comment/refute this with regards to statistics?
http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

 

[Jack Matthews]

I'd be all for doing it the way the Swiss do. They do indeed have a higher percentage of gun ownership than the US, and they have almost no gun-related deaths annually. So you have to look at why. First of all, in order to buy a gun in Switzerland, you have to go through a registration process, including background checks that make ours look ridiculously simple. Once you own it, you are held accountable for its whereabouts and use, and if it is used illegally, you pay a fine that will make you think twice about who you let use it, and how carefully you store it. You can also be prosecuted as an accomplice if your gun is used in committing a crime. If you are carrying in public, you better have a good reason with the proper documentation.

It should be noted, for all those who think that putting more guns in people's hands will prevent this sort of thing, that it was the gun owner in this particular incident who died first.

 

[Revmitchell]

It should be noted, for all those who think that putting more guns in people's hands will prevent this sort of thing, that it was the gun owner in this particular incident who died first.

One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Jack Matthews]

One has nothing to do with the other.

So you concede the point that putting more guns out there, in the hands of school employees and the public in general, will have absolutely no effect whatsoever on a decline in gun violence. Thank you for making my point so well. Sometimes you can be a gem.

 

[Revmitchell]

So you concede the point that putting more guns out there, in the hands of school employees and the public in general, will have absolutely no effect whatsoever on a decline in gun violence. Thank you for making my point so well. Sometimes you can be a gem.

If you want to believe that is what I said, then that is your misrepresentation, but not my position.

 

[Salty]

We have a far far lower rate of gun deaths in the UK per capita. The below picture is out-of-date but still very pertinent - you do the math.​

and how many in the UK were killed by weapons other than firearms​

I take it you've read the whole of the Second Amendment, not just the bit about the right to bear arms?

"A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...". Last time I looked, a 'well-regulated militia' was not giving any old Tom, Dick and Harry the 'right' to carry semi-automatic weapons....

Matt, when you quote something, please do not leave out pertinent parts!

Here is the full amendment :
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. (bold my emphasis)

Now by reading the entire amendment - ....

 

[Matt Black]

Er...I think you'll find I did refer to the right to bear arms; that's the bit that's so often quoted but the context is the well-regulated militia. Present US gun control panders to the 'right to bear arms' part at the expense of the 'well-regulated' part and it is high time before there is another catastrophe for gun control to be 'well-regulated'.

 

[Matt Black]

In a thread, can't remember which one right off the top of my head, I researched the stats presented in that graphic. That picture is much like taking a single verse from the scriptures and building a case around it to support something far from the full truth. The context is missing from that picture.

Why are UK deaths lower? Because traditionally, historically, they have always been lower.

North Carolina is bounded by the ocean on one side and a mountain chain on the other. People living in the mountains own far fewer boats than those as the coast. Should either be used as the "standard" when debating a boat ownership problem?

Care to comment/refute this with regards to statistics?
http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

Well, it's not statistics for a start: it's a mish-mash of conflated figures for apples and bananas in effect eg: it cites murder rates in the same breath as muggings.

So, not in the slightest bit impressed