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The Antichrist slideshow
- Thread starter TheBibleSender
- Start date
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
You are missing the point entirely!!
If you think we benefit from paying no attention to the past then you have not read 1Cor 10.
If you think we benefit from ignoring the horrific acts of history committed by the RCC and predicted by God - then you have not read the books of Daniel and of Revelation.
If you think that in order to "see" that the RCC committed the great misdeeds predicted - we must first blame all Catholics today for the misdeeds of the dark ages - then again - you are not listening to reason.
If you think we should "ignore" the fact that the RCC STILL refuses to admit that her horrific deeds in "exterminating" the Christians that opposed here - were deeds to be repented of -- then again you are simply not listening to reason.
This discussion is really just a discussion about the "obvious" statements and misdeeds in history (to the tune of slaughtering millions upon millions of Christians over the ages) as well as inventing horrific doctrinal errors - invented in the dark ages and still held by many millions of Christians today to be "true".
In Christ,
Bob
Then go after the doctrines and quit calling them inquisitors, pagans, and any other number of foul names you can think of.
Bringing up the inquisition and other attrocities committed 100's, 1000's of years ago do no one any good much less holding people who have nothing to do with said attrocities accountable. What ever happened to forgive and forget?
This foul slide show wasn't an attack on false doctrine it was a smear tactic meant to make the RCC look like a pagan religion rather than an errant Christian group.
Bringing up the inquisition and other attrocities committed 100's, 1000's of years ago do no one any good much less holding people who have nothing to do with said attrocities accountable. What ever happened to forgive and forget?
This foul slide show wasn't an attack on false doctrine it was a smear tactic meant to make the RCC look like a pagan religion rather than an errant Christian group.
LoveThyNeighbour
New Member
Chemnitz... amen brother
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
IF you have an example of me pointing to any member of the RC today and calling them "an inquisitor" or blaming them for the history of the RCC in the dark ages - go ahead and show it.
If you have an example of the RCC apologizing for her monsterous deeds in the dark ages (instead of claiming infallibility for her decrees on "exterminating" heretics") then show it.
Ignoring her dark ages history - does not serve the members of the RCC or the Word of God that predicted that history.
That is the claim you keep making that has been proven false in several key areas.
#1. God's WORD itself highlights the very misdeeds to which you say we should turn a blind eye - it points all NT saints to those misdeeds "for a reason".
#2. The RCC today links her doctrinal error of infallibility to those deeds of the dark ages claiming that in her decrees to "exterminate heretics" she was and still IS infallible!!
Why do you simply gloss over these details to repeat your old claims without addressing the points that refute your statements?
#3 The persecuting RCC did not end a 1000 years ago nor 500 years ago, nor 400 years ago - nor even today do we find non-CAtholics free of persecution from Catholic dominated regions in South America.
This is not a question of "forgiving" - it is a question of learning from history and seeing what the Bible has to say as it POINTS us to that every history.
Nothing about that exercise leads me to "be mean to a Catholic" -- IF they think it is "mean" to discover and see clearly the history of their church - AS IT was predicted in scripture - then they are in error on that point.
Oh really? That statement could have used some "Actual fact" to go along with it. Point to a fact in the slide that was NOT a reference to the Bible AND to actual RC statements published by the highest RC authorities -- or else admit to simply "making stuff up" in your false accuasation against brothers in Christ that presented those historic facts.
In Christ,
Bob
First the inaccuracy of the slide show, the supposed upside down cross of the papal chair. The Cross on the chair is completed when the Pope sits down and the line on his hat falls directly under the carving, which is how it was designed. So it is not an upside down cross as the slide show claims. That is evidence of deliberately misleading information concerning the RCC.
Secondly, the idea that there are pagans and hypocrits present in the Vatican makes them no different than any other congregation as they are all full of hypocrits and even pagans.
As a Lutheran I have experienced similar things from Catholics concerning Martin Luther, all it has done is made me embrace it even more.
Secondly, the idea that there are pagans and hypocrits present in the Vatican makes them no different than any other congregation as they are all full of hypocrits and even pagans.
That wasn't directed toward you, Bob, I should have made that clear.
I do not, nor do I expect one as the people who perpetrated such deeds are long since dead and are facing their judgement.
Neither does highlighting it help. The only thing I have seen created from such rhetoric is more ardent RCC defenders. I can think of several people who were nominal Catholics until distateful tactics such as the slideshow were thrown at them.
As a Lutheran I have experienced similar things from Catholics concerning Martin Luther, all it has done is made me embrace it even more.
Why, because I actually agree with you concerning how God's word illuminates the past actions of the RCC. What I disagree with is focusing on such attrocities with people who have no connection to them. If you are going to share the Gospel then share the Gospel, don't beat people over the head with the past.
People share the negative history of the church of Rome, in order to reveal her true colors. Colors which she hides today. She did not stop persecuting of her own free will, but only lost the power to do so. She is now regaining that power at an astounding rate. When she has that power again, then she will persecute again. She will do whatever it takes to shut the mouths of those who speak the truth concerning her. She has already done so, and will continue to do so with whatever means she has.
She is a lie, she promotes lies, she rewrites history to hide the truth, and her secretive societies are ever at work to promote her, and destroy all who would appose her. The Church of Rome is now pursuing an identical course to that which she pursued in the past to gain the power of the state in her favor. Only now the stakes are not just in Europe, but the entire world. She spreads her legs before every king and government of this world, and invites them into an illicit relationship with her. Thus she commits fornication with the kings of the earth in order to gain their alliance, and power to further her own goals.
When she can get them to enforce the observance of the sacred day of her invention, she will have gained the power of the state to force all into submission to her authority. All will choose whom they worship, by choosing either the day that God has ordained, or the day that the Church of Rome, more specifically the man of sin has chosen as sacred. When this abomination is set up in the place of the holy, more specifically the holy Sabbath, then desolation will follow. Thus Sunday sacredness is the abomination of desolation that will be set up in place of the holy.
Matt 24:1-44
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
She is a lie, she promotes lies, she rewrites history to hide the truth, and her secretive societies are ever at work to promote her, and destroy all who would appose her. The Church of Rome is now pursuing an identical course to that which she pursued in the past to gain the power of the state in her favor. Only now the stakes are not just in Europe, but the entire world. She spreads her legs before every king and government of this world, and invites them into an illicit relationship with her. Thus she commits fornication with the kings of the earth in order to gain their alliance, and power to further her own goals.
When she can get them to enforce the observance of the sacred day of her invention, she will have gained the power of the state to force all into submission to her authority. All will choose whom they worship, by choosing either the day that God has ordained, or the day that the Church of Rome, more specifically the man of sin has chosen as sacred. When this abomination is set up in the place of the holy, more specifically the holy Sabbath, then desolation will follow. Thus Sunday sacredness is the abomination of desolation that will be set up in place of the holy.
Matt 24:1-44
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
The little horn would persecute.
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High." Daniel 7:25.
How true these words have proved in history. There are many sources to choose from, but let us read just one.
"That the Church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind, will be questioned by no Protestant who has a competent knowledge of history. The memorials, indeed, of many of her persecutions are now so scanty, that it is impossible to form a complete conception of the multitude of her victims, and it is quite certain that no powers of imagination can adequately realize their suffering."-William Edward Hartpole Lecky, History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe, vol. 2 (London: Longmans, Green, and Company, 1904), p. 32.
Perhaps it would be well here to read something from the church. She admits freely that she has persecuted. Notice this carefully.
"The church has persecuted. Only a tyro in church history will deny that .... One hundred and fifty years after Constantine the Donatists were persecuted and sometimes put to death ... Protestants were persecuted in France and Spain with the full approval of the church authorities. We have always defended the persecution of the Huguenots, and the Spanish Inquisition. Wherever and whenever there is honest Catholicity, there will be a clear distinction drawn between truth and error, and Catholicity and all forms of heresy. When she thinks it good to use physical force, she will use it .... But will the Catholic Church give bond that she will not persecute at all? Will she guarantee absolute freedom and equality of all churches and all faiths? The Catholic Church gives no bonds for her good behavior."-The Western Watchman, December 24, 1908.
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High." Daniel 7:25.
How true these words have proved in history. There are many sources to choose from, but let us read just one.
"That the Church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind, will be questioned by no Protestant who has a competent knowledge of history. The memorials, indeed, of many of her persecutions are now so scanty, that it is impossible to form a complete conception of the multitude of her victims, and it is quite certain that no powers of imagination can adequately realize their suffering."-William Edward Hartpole Lecky, History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe, vol. 2 (London: Longmans, Green, and Company, 1904), p. 32.
Perhaps it would be well here to read something from the church. She admits freely that she has persecuted. Notice this carefully.
"The church has persecuted. Only a tyro in church history will deny that .... One hundred and fifty years after Constantine the Donatists were persecuted and sometimes put to death ... Protestants were persecuted in France and Spain with the full approval of the church authorities. We have always defended the persecution of the Huguenots, and the Spanish Inquisition. Wherever and whenever there is honest Catholicity, there will be a clear distinction drawn between truth and error, and Catholicity and all forms of heresy. When she thinks it good to use physical force, she will use it .... But will the Catholic Church give bond that she will not persecute at all? Will she guarantee absolute freedom and equality of all churches and all faiths? The Catholic Church gives no bonds for her good behavior."-The Western Watchman, December 24, 1908.
#3 The persecuting RCC did not end a 1000 years ago nor 500 years ago, nor 400 years ago - nor even today do we find non-CAtholics free of persecution from Catholic dominated regions in South America.
wow i needed to post on this one.. brasil is the largest catholic country, and in brasil the opposite has happened, the "evangelical" has been attracting more and more members, and they have been very outspoken against the catholic church, to the point that they have been charged with a crime here in brasil about hatespeech against religions.. and it hasnt only been isolated incidents.. they have protested in front of catholic churches and help signs and hired sound trucks (in brasil there is a practice, where a store wants to promote a sale, or a politician, or announcing a show, or even a boyfreind telling his girlfreind he loves her, they hire a truck with speakers broadcasting a message) to disrupt their services callling them idolars and sinners and what not.. there was even an incident (if you go to wikipedia or google "kicking the saint" you can find a complete description of the incident) where the leader of one of the evangelical movements actually kicked over an image of nossa senhora da aparecida (the patron saint of brasil) on tv and it was a huge scandal.. even the members of other non catholic churches said the message he wanted to say is correct, but the way he did it was wrong
wow i needed to post on this one.. brasil is the largest catholic country, and in brasil the opposite has happened, the "evangelical" has been attracting more and more members, and they have been very outspoken against the catholic church, to the point that they have been charged with a crime here in brasil about hatespeech against religions.. and it hasnt only been isolated incidents.. they have protested in front of catholic churches and help signs and hired sound trucks (in brasil there is a practice, where a store wants to promote a sale, or a politician, or announcing a show, or even a boyfreind telling his girlfreind he loves her, they hire a truck with speakers broadcasting a message) to disrupt their services callling them idolars and sinners and what not.. there was even an incident (if you go to wikipedia or google "kicking the saint" you can find a complete description of the incident) where the leader of one of the evangelical movements actually kicked over an image of nossa senhora da aparecida (the patron saint of brasil) on tv and it was a huge scandal.. even the members of other non catholic churches said the message he wanted to say is correct, but the way he did it was wrong
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The history of central and south American Catholic countries persecuting non-Catholic Christians is well known and well documented. It is beyond dispute.
Here is a link showing the current case in recent times for non-Catholic Christians in Mexico -
http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/Mexico.htm
Yep! There is NOTHING in the modern world to compare to it!!
Here is a link showing the current case in recent times for non-Catholic Christians in Mexico -
http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/Mexico.htm
I am inclined to agree with Benedict that not only is the number something like 25 Million that were killed by "likely 2/3's of the actual number" is not being reported.
Yep! There is NOTHING in the modern world to compare to it!!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
BTW - although we have the frank confession from Benedict on how the number of 75 Million for slain Christians in the dark ages gets reduced to a mere 25 million -- there is another link out there that ignores those statements from Benedict altogether and tries to spin the Catholic invention of the inquisition as "a good thing".
Nothing like putting a "good face" on crimes against humanity --
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/050809
If you are part of the organization that committed them that is.
In Christ,
Bob
Nothing like putting a "good face" on crimes against humanity --
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/050809
If you are part of the organization that committed them that is.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The "dodge" practiced in the pro-RC statement given in the link above is not unlike the criminal that says "well yes I killed my wife - but I was also a boyscout and I did my share of community service. And as for killing my wife - I did not do that as often as people say. Most of the times I married someone and killed them they really deserved it. And even then there were a lot of days when I was nice.".
In Christ,
Bob
In Christ,
Bob
After speaking to a lunch group today, I had several Roman Catholics come to me and share that they have experienced abuse from members of baptist churches and you somehow want to ignore the persecution of Catholics while forcing the issue of Catholic persecution of protestants. Talk about double standards.
Catholics call any protests by protestants are the persecution of Holy Roman Catholic.
The punishment of Gun Powder plot was the persecution by King James, Queen Elizabeth persecuted Catholics, IRA was persecuted.
The devout Catholic Adolf Hitler was persecuted and therefore could not but to commit suicide.
Even Muslim terrorists are persecuted by Christians !?
The punishment of Gun Powder plot was the persecution by King James, Queen Elizabeth persecuted Catholics, IRA was persecuted.
The devout Catholic Adolf Hitler was persecuted and therefore could not but to commit suicide.
Even Muslim terrorists are persecuted by Christians !?
