The Arminian Dilemma

[The Biblicist]

So, do you believe it's an offer of salvation intended for all or not?



So, do you consider yourself a four pointer? I ask because this is typically the reasoning of those who deny limited atonement.

Do you think MacArthur is a four pointer?????? Where do you see that I differ with MacArthur on any of those "OR" propositions?

My "only declarative" was in a context of contrast to your view. Certainly it is declarative equally to all who hear it. It is not an unconditional offer to anyone. Hence, it is not merely an "offer" but requires meeting certain conditions which "election...obtains" - Rom. 11:7;2 Thes. 2:13.

 

[Skandelon]

Do you think MacArthur is a four pointer?????? Where do you see that I differ with MacArthur on any of those "OR" propositions?

I'm not sure where MacArthur stands on this point as many from the Princeton tradition (C. Hodge, Dabney, Shedd) of the reformed faith, don't support the typical 'limited atonement' perspective. If John were here and said what you did, I'd ask him the same question.

You said, "Nothing prevents any sinner from being saved but their own willful resistance and rejection," but if someone hasn't been atoned for by Christ, then that would be another impediment to his being saved...he would lack atonement AND the willingness to come.

 

[The Biblicist]

I'm not sure where MacArthur stands on this point as many from the Princeton tradition (C. Hodge, Dabney, Shedd) of the reformed faith, don't support the typical 'limited atonement' perspective. If John were here and said what you did, I'd ask him the same question.

He is a qualified five pointer.

You said, "Nothing prevents any sinner from being saved but their own willful resistance and rejection," but if someone hasn't been atoned for by Christ, then that would be another impediment to his being saved...he would lack atonement AND the willingness to come.

I am an infralapsarian rather than a supralapsarian. That means, I believe within the logical order of decrees the fall preceded election. Hence, election is not to damnation as universal damnation preceded the decree of election. Hence, election is not "to damnation" but is the gracious response of God to save some in spite of just condemnation.

Hence, from a prefall view I see election as an unprecedented act of grace to save some when NONE WANT GOD and freely resist and reject God. Hence, when I say "nothing prevents any lost man from being saved but his own choice to resist and reject the gospel I am referring to the pre-elect state that is in no way hampered by the Post-fall nature of election and redemption that in no way prevent the non-elect from coming to Christ but ensure that some will come to Christ in spite of themselves.

 

[Skandelon]

He is a qualified five pointer.



I am an infralapsarian rather than a supralapsarian. That means, I believe within the logical order of decrees the fall preceded election. Hence, election is not to damnation as universal damnation preceded the decree of election. Hence, election is not "to damnation" but is the gracious response of God to save some in spite of just condemnation.

Hence, from a prefall view I see election as an unprecedented act of grace to save some when NONE WANT GOD and freely resist and reject God. Hence, when I say "nothing prevents any lost man from being saved but his own choice to resist and reject the gospel I am referring to the pre-elect state that is in no way hampered by the Post-fall nature of election and redemption that in no way prevent the non-elect from coming to Christ but ensure that some will come to Christ in spite of themselves.

Wow, do you guys have a decoder ring or something to keep all that stuff straight? :smilewinkgrin: