The Army's hard sell

[RockRambler]

I have one son who is a Marine in Iraq, another who is scheduled to go to Iraq in September.

If President Bush wants to inspire people to join the Armed Services, then his two daughters should join up in this all important war on terrorism. Other Presidents' children have been in wars, they could too.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

That is stupid. What his two daughters decide about the military service is irrelevant and just a slur against the president. If your children don't want to serve, then they do not have to sign up.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Travelsong]

As our forces are depleated and their morale lowers you will find there is no one to replace them. Mark my words.

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by Travelsong:
So if the overwhelming majority of Americans threw their support behind this war you believe that would discourage and quell the fanaticism of the enemy to the point that all of these suiced bombers and insurgents would give up? I think you underestimate their determination. Bush had our support for quite some time. He was not prepared for this kind of war. Therein lies our defeat. Our youth will not be convinced that this is a noble cause they should be willing to sacrifice their lives for, because the only reason we are committed to staying at this point is to save face. And I agree with you, it was the same in Vietnam.

At some point the human toll will be too costly to go on and we will have no choice but to pull out.

Of course the enemy is encouraged by the rhetoric of power hungry American politicians. Wouldn't you be?
As for their determination, I'd like to get the opportunity to find out. But the way it is now , they don't have to be anything but determined to hold on long enough for us to defeat ourselves.

By strengthening the resolve of our enemies, there is no way to tell how many of our people are killed by our own loudmouth, power hungry politicians.

 

[RockRambler]

If your children don't want to serve, then they do not have to sign up.

Joseph Botwinick

But both of my sons signed up for the Marines after 9/11....much more than I can say about Bush or any of the other warhawks.

 

[Travelsong]

Carpro, our enemies are not politicians or sophisticated PR men. They are religious zealots who have been recruited by the most powerful method known to man. The appeal to God's will. They don't care about American perception of this war. They are literally dying to secure their eternal place in heaven among the ranks of their fellow martyrs.

In any case, if American public support is a deciding factor in our victory, then there can be no doubt that our invasion of Iraq was a bad idea (any war would be).

Again, Bush had all the support for this war he could have ever wanted. He failed to succeeed because he was unprepared for this new kind of war.

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by Travelsong:
Carpro, our enemies are not politicians or sophisticated PR men. They are religious zealots who have been recruited by the most powerful method known to man. The appeal to God's will. They don't care about American perception of this war. They are literally dying to secure their eternal place in heaven among the ranks of their fellow martyrs.

In any case, if American public support is a deciding factor in our victory, then there can be no doubt that our invasion of Iraq was a bad idea (any war would be).

Again, Bush had all the support for this war he could have ever wanted. He failed to succeeed because he was unprepared for this new kind of war.

The enemy in the field is ably assisted by the enemy here at home. And they are who you think they're not.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by carpro:
The enemy in the field is far less dangerous than the enemy at home. Just like Vietnam.

Amen Brother! The ones in the field were very dangerous but ... the ones at home were real snakes! That's one similarity that's easy to recognize by those who served in that war!

 

[ASLANSPAL]

RockRambler said:

I have one son who is a Marine in Iraq, another who is scheduled to go to Iraq in September.

If President Bush wants to inspire people to join the Armed Services, then his two daughters should join up in this all important war on terrorism. Other Presidents' children have been in wars, they could too.

Joe B said:

That is stupid. What his two daughters decide about the military service is irrelevant and just a slur against the president. If your children don't want to serve, then they do not have to sign up.

Joseph Botwinick


Actually bush made a pitch to all Americans eligible to join the military and that also
meant Jenna and Barbara along with George Jr.
it is not a slam or a slur it is legitimate debate and especially legitimate to those families
who have sons and daughters over there or soon
to be over there. If within his own convictions
the president thinks the war is righteous that
will rub off on blood relatives ..or it won't.

It does tell you a lot.

 

[billwald]

I suppose the war is an outlet for people who want to kill people and break things.

 

[OCC]

Originally posted by billwald:
I suppose the war is an outlet for people who want to kill people and break things.

No brother...surprisingly those kind of people are weeded out. The military wants people willing to sacrifice their lives or kill someone else, but I don't think they go for "Rambo" types. They are dangerous to themselves and the men around them.

 

[carpro]

Great timing!
In the news today:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050629-20260500-bc-us-army-recruit.xml

Army meets recruiting target in June
WASHINGTON, June 29 (UPI) -- The active component of the Army met its monthly recruiting goal in June for the first time in months, a top military official said Wednesday.

"I will tell you that for the month of June, United States Army active recruiting is over 100 percent of its goal, which is a turnaround from where they've been in the last several months," said Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "So there's a bit of good news in here. We'll see how it works out the rest of the year."

 

[superdave]

So that would be why the Army is easily reaching its recruitment goals as is the ANG. Hmm, could it be that the volunteer army is still working? perhaps.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Re-enlistment numbers are exceeding the goals of the military across all the services.

More good news from the same article. Quite surprising that the liberals still think the soldiers don't support their mission when they keep volunteering to participate in it.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Travelsong]

So I suppose my friend who has been over there for eighteen months and has no idea when he will get to return home is just making up lies?

I'll believe reports about recruitment goals being met when I see our taxed soldiers returning home to be replaced by reinforcements. Until then it's just PR and more lies as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Are you calling several friends of mine who just returned after over 18 months in Bagdad liars when they talk about the good they were doing there? Or, perhaps, do different soldiers have different perspectives about the war?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Travelsong]

I think it's ironic how the pro war folks were making Iraq out to be a threat from the beginning and believing every word of the Bush/Rumsfeld dogma (I was one of them) and slamming anyone who disagreed with them are the same people who now after the invasion is over and we see that Saddam wasn't a threat at all can't even admit they were wrong.

Now they slam the very same dissenters who know the human toll has far exceeded what any American would have agreed to prior to the initiation of this war.

Everyone of us now knows there were no WMD's, Saddam had no real links to terror groups and he posed no threat to America, yet still the dissenter are just a bunch of mamby pamby liberals who can't stomach sticking out what turned out to be a huge mistake.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Thank you for that repeat of the DEM talking points / anti-war propaganda.

1. Saddam was a threat and no longer is. He harbored Al Quaeda terrorists fleeing from Afganistan. He daily attacked American planes patrolling the no fly zone, and this was going on before Bush was elected. He paid terrorists to go and murder Jews in Israel (our ally). He did have WMD's. Nobody questioned that before the war, not even Kerry or Clinton. Just ask the Kurds whether or not he had weapons of mass destruction. If he didn't have them, all he would have had to do was be transparent about it and nothing would have happened. He chose not to. I still believe that he had them or that they may still be there. Don't forget the amount of time Bush wasted at the UN before the war began (if Bush did anything wrong, this was it...this was a strategic error on his part). There was plenty of time to send those WMD's over the border to Syria or Iran. Further, if you really believe that every inch of Iraq has been searched for the weapons, then I have a plot of swampland in the Delta I would like to sell you, because you really are more gullable than I think you are. Bush made the admission he did to take the focus off the issue that the DEMS were, and still are for political reasons.

2. It has not far exceeded what Americans expect in a war. Go read your history books. Compared to other wars we have fought and won, this is nothing in comparison. I will not dishonor the sacrifice of those who gave their lives for the mission by spitting on the very thing they died for and not finishing the mission.

3. You are correct about one thing:

"the dissenter are just a bunch of mamby pamby liberals who can't stomach sticking out..."

Except it was not a mistake. It was and is the right thing to do, and I will not allow your disrespect of the mission of the US Military go unchallenged.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Travelsong]

mmm hmmm. That's why Rumsfeld said in an interview on NPR prior to the invasion that this would take about five months, right?

 

[Travelsong]

oh, that's also why just months before 9/11 Rice and Powell are both on camera saying that Saddam is not a threat and isn't harboring significant amounts of WMDs right?


I guess all of that magically changed after 9/11 huh?