The Atonement;AW Pink

[psalms109:31]

God's elect

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the Lord.

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

John 1:
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Not a Peter denial, but a disowning never to come back

1 John 2:
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[Some manuscripts and you know all things] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

John 15
The Vine and the Branches
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[The Greek for he prunes also means he cleans.] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.
The World Hates the Disciples
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’[John 13:16] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’[Psalms 35:19; 69:4]

Exodus 12:
48 “A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the LORD’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. 49 The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

Galatians 3:8
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, " ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."

Everything happens because God has wanted it that way.

To disagree with God and His word and His will is messing with the sovereignty of God not trusting and believing in His word.

The atonement is for the elect I just don't agree with men interpretation of who they are.

 

[Iconoclast]

Psa 109

I agree with the first part of your statement, but I am not sure what you mean with the second part.

The atonement is for the elect I just don't agree with men interpretation of who they are.

What do you mean when you are saying this?

I just don't agree with men interpretation of who they are.[/QUOTE][/B]

Give me some examples of what you mean by this....what mens interpretation.....where are you seeing these interpretations?:type:

 

[psalms109:31]

All and world

double post sorry

 

[psalms109:31]

All and world

I can agree that whosoever is the elect, but world and all is just what it say's. So many have come up with their own interpenetration that adds up to their doctrine not to scripture.

Having to retrain what world and all means generation after generation, not arguing with men who believe but God that the those words don't really mean what they say in black and white.

This is why this argument will remain, not everyone will see the way men do, but what the scripture says.

See the word of God will remain forever, but men interpenetration will not

 

[Iconoclast]

I can agree that whosoever is the elect, but world and all is just what it say's. So many have come up with their own interpenetration that adds up to their doctrine not to scripture.

Having to retrain what world and all means generation after generation, not arguing with men who believe but God that the those words don't really mean what they say in black in white.

This is why this argument will remain, not everyone will see the way men do, but what the scripture says.

See the word of God will remain for ever, but men interpenetration will not

It takes study to determine the meaning..here are some ideas to consider;

The word can mean ...

... the Universe as a whole in Acts 17:24
... the Earth itself in John 13:1; Ephesians 1:4, etc.
... the "world system" in John 12:31
... the whole human race in Romans 3:19, etc.
... the human race minus believers in John 15:18; Romans 3:6, etc.
... the Gentiles in contrast from the Jews in Romans 11:12, etc.
... believers only in John 1:29; 3:16,17; 6:33; 12:47; 1 Corinthians 4:9; 2 Corinthians 5:19

here is another list a friend offered on this topic;
[QUOTEThat interpretation makes sense because that transition from an ethnic covenant to a worldwide one was a transitional theme that needed to be often emphasized to the New Testament churches, and we see that theme throughout the NT. In other words, Calvinists and non-Calvinists both agree that the term "world" in 1 John 2 at least logically refers to people of every race and region, but it is only the non-Calvinists who further claim that it is logical for it to refer to every individual; and the only way to conclusively claim that such an interpretation is indeed logical is for the non-Calvinist to presuppose their doctrine of Universal Atonement in approaching the text - thus, that verse itself cannot be effectively used as support text for either view on the atonement.

And if someone tries to go down the path of claiming that all instances of that word are to be taken literally, let them chew on these verses for awhile[1]:

-Genesis 3:20 "The man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living."[2]
-Genesis 6:13 "And God said to Noah, 'I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.'"[3]
-Genesis 6:17 "For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die."[4]
-Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved."[5]
-Mark 1:5 "And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins."[6]
-Luke 2:1-3 "In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration when Quirinius was governor of Syria. And all went to be registered, each to his own town."[7]
-John 1:10-12 "He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God."[8]
-John 12:19 "So the Pharisees said to one another, 'You see that you are gaining nothing. Look, the world has gone after him.'"[9]
-Romans 1:8 "First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world."[10]
-1 Corinthians 6:12 "'All things are lawful for me,' but not all things are helpful.'All things are lawful for me,' but I will not be enslaved by anything."[11]
-1 Corinthians 10:23 "'All things are lawful,' but not all things are helpful. 'All things are lawful,' but not all things build up."[12]
-2 Timothy 4:17 "But the Lord stood by me and strengthened me, so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed and all the Gentiles might hear it."[13]
-1 John 2:15-16 "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world"”the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions"”is not from the Father but is from the world."[14]
-1 John 5:19 "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."[15]
-Revelation 13:3 "One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast."[16]

][/QUOTE]

 

[psalms109:31]

All

When we are in Christ we are no longer apart of this world, everyone else is following the evil one.

I still see those scriptures as all and world as they knew everyone.

When God say's world and all He is talking about all He sees. Men are talking about all and world they are talking about all they see.


1 Timothy 2 :1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,

Why should we make peace with everyone because He wants all men to be saved. He continues to talk about them not the elect.

1 Timothy 2: 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

People didn't believe Him back then either.

7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

This said for us to go reach people, because of God desire.

God desire's, but He will not go against His will. That believers(trust in His Son) be saved and those who do not be condemned.

 

[Iconoclast]

psa109

Here is a good summary of your view....and how others have seen it

http://www.the-highway.com/1Tim2.4.html

it is a good read...enjoy

 

[psalms109:31]

Arminin

You can't put me in a category my friend. I believe the scripture as God has translated for us and the only place where the two roads are placed is at the cross, the only choice without that is to be walking on the wide road. No one who is His can lose their salvation, Jesus keeps us. After someone trust in Jesus that to God it is not work, it is Jesus job to keep them. He will not lose anyone He has been given.

I do believe as you do to a point, but see the cross is the only place it changes.

Praise be to Jesus

 

[Iconoclast]

Again: this theory would reduce the whole work of Christ to a costly experiment which might or might not succeed, inasmuch as according to this conception, there is still some condition which the sinner himself must fulfill ere he can be benefited by that mercy which God would bestow upon him. But that is a flat denial of the fatal effects of the Fall, a repudiation of the total depravity of man. Those who are spiritually dead in sins are quite incapable of performing any spiritual conditions. As well offer to a man who is stone blind a thousand dollars on condition that he sees, as offer something spiritual to one who has no capacity to discern it: see John 3:3; 1 Corinthians 2:14. Such a view as this is as far removed from the truth as is light from darkness. Such a view, reduced to plain terms, comes to this; if the sinner believes, then Christ died for him; if the sinner does not believe, then Christ did not die for him; thus the sinner’s act is made the cause of its own object, as though his believing would make that to be which otherwise was not. To such insane absurdities are the opposers of grace driven.

How different the plain teaching of the Word! Christ came here to fulfill His agreement in the Everlasting Covenant. In that covenant a certain work was prescribed. Upon His performance of it a certain reward was promised. That work was that Christ should make a perfect satisfaction unto God on behalf of each and all of His people. That reward was that all the blessings procured and purchased by Him should be infallibly bestowed on each and all of His people. “God out of His infinite love to His elect, sent His dear Son in the fullness of time, whom He had promised in the beginning of the world; to pay a ransom of infinite value and dignity, for the purchasing of eternal redemption, and bringing unto Himself all and every one of those whom He had before ordained to eternal life, for the praise of His own glory. So that freedom from all the evil from which we are delivered, and an enjoyment of all the good things that are bestowed on us, in our traduction from death to life, from hell and wrath to heaven and glory, are the proper issues and effects of the death of Christ, as the meritorious cause of them all” (John Owen). We are now ready to answer our opening question. The design of Christ’s Satisfaction was 1. THAT GOD MIGHT BE MAGNIFIED “The Lord hath made all things for himself” ( Proverbs 16:4).

 

[Iconoclast]

Observe that Luke 19:10 does not say that Christ came here to seek and to save all the lost. Of course it does not. Two thirds of human history had already run its course before Jesus was born. Half the human race was already in Hell when He entered Bethlehem’s manger. It was “the lost” (see Greek) for which He became incarnate. That is the awful condition in which God’s elect are by nature. Lost! They have lost all knowledge of the true God, all liking for Him, all desires after Him. They have lost His image in which they were originally created, and have contracted the image of Satan. They have lost all knowledge of their own actual condition, for their understanding is darkened ( Ephesians 4:18), they are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 2:1). Totally unconscious of their terrible state they neither seek Christ nor realize their need of Him.

Christ did not come here to see if there were any who would seek after Him. Of course not. Romans 3:11 emphatically declares “there is none that seeketh after God.” Christ is the seeker. Beautifully is that brought out by Him in His parable of the lost sheep. A strayed dog or a lost horse will usually find its way back home. Not so a sheep: the longer it is free, the farther it strays from the fold. Hence, if that sheep is ever to be recovered, one must go after it. This is what Christ did, and which by His Spirit He is still doing. As Luke 15:4 declares, He goes “after that which is lost until He find it.” But more: Christ came here not only to seek and find, but also to save. His words are, “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.” Note it is not merely that He offers to, nor helps to, but that He actually saves. Such was the emphatic and unqualified declaration of the angel to Joseph, “Thou shalt call his name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins” — not try to, not half do so, but actually save them.

 

[Iconoclast]

Here again we have clearly defined the design of Christ’s mission and satisfaction. His sheep once possessed “life,” possessed it in their natural head, Adam. But when he fell, they fell; when he died, they died. As it is written, “In Adam all die” ( 1 Corinthians 15:22). But by Christ, through His work, and in Him their spiritual Head, they obtain not only “life,” but “more abundant” life; that is, a “life” which as far excels what they lost in their first father, as the last Adam excels in His Person, the first Adam.

Therefore is it written, “The first Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit” ( 1 Corinthians 15:45). “As the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” ( John 6:26), which speaks of Christ as the God-man, the Mediator, as is clear from the words “given to.” But that “life” had to be “laid down” ( John 10:17) and received again in resurrection before it could be, efficaciously, bestowed on His people: John 12:24. It was as the Risen One that Christ was made “a quickening spirit.” The first Adam was “made a living soul” that he might communicate natural life to his posterity; the last Adam was “made a quickening spirit” that He might impart spiritual life to all His seed. As the soul dwelling in Adam’s body animated it and so made him to be a “living soul,” so the man Christ Jesus being united to the second of the Trinity, has constituted Him a “quickening spirit,” i.e., quickening His mystical body, both now and hereafter. The life of the Head is the life of His members.

The Christian first has a federal life in Christ before he has a vital life from Christ. Being legally one with Christ, this must be so. When Christ died His people died, when Christ was quickened His people were quickened “together with” Him ( Ephesians 2:5). It is to this union with the life of Christ that Romans 5:17 refers: “For if by one man’s offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.”

Yes, there is a “much more”: the abundance of grace is greater than the demerits of sin, and the gift of righteousness exceeds that which was lost in Adam. The righteousness of God’s elect far surpasses that which they possessed in innocence by the first Adam, for it is the righteousness of Christ, who is God. To this, neither the righteousness of Adam nor of angels can be compared. Those redeemed by Christ are not only recovered from the fall, but they are made to “reign in life” to which they had no title in their first parent. Since Christ is King, His people are made “kings” too ( Revelation 1:6).

 

[psalms109:31]

Christ our authority

Romans 11:
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Joshua 24:15
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”

Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 1:11
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Deuteronomy 7:6
For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Zephaniah 3:12 But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the Lord.

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Hebrews 7:
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

1 Peter 2:6
For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

To trust in Jesus is to make Him your authority, to place yourself under His feet. That you are under His protection. It in no way places your self over Christ or God or His authority, but does the exact opposite.

 

[Iconoclast]

Psa109
Good verses. We serve a Great God and Saviour.Thanks for posting those good verses.

 

[psalms109:31]

I like them to

It is God's way or the highway. He is our authority not man. Men idea takes away from His word or sometimes corrupts it.

 

[Iconoclast]

It is God's way or the highway. He is our authority not man. Men idea takes away from His word or sometimes corrupts it.

Yes God is in control. Sometimes God does use men.ie, pastors and teachers to help us.....

27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

24And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

We must be more careful when we look at the teaching of men, like the bereans;

11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[Iconoclast]

Sins are “forgiven” or “remitted” by the redeeming blood. The preposition should be duly noted here: it is not “through whom we have redemption” (which presents another phase altogether), but “in whom.” Redemption was the Christian’s right, not only when the Spirit applied it to him at his regeneration, but also when Christ died. Just as we had condemnation in Adam before we were born into this world, so the elect have redemption in Christ since the time that He was raised from the dead: note that “believing” is not mentioned in Ephesians 1 till verse 12! “Redemption through his blood” is our forgiveness. Not that we are actually pardoned in the blood of His Cross before we believe, but that the pardon was procured by the redeeming blood, the grant of it was then sealed, and security given that it should in due time be made unto us.

And again, “I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death” ( Hosea 13:14).

Thus, we say again, Redemption is the payment of a ransom and the release of the ransomed. Hence it is strictly limited to the people of God.

In no sense are the reprobate “redeemed.” Election and redemption are of the same extent: they relate to the same individuals, to all such, and to none else. To affirm that any whom Christ redeemed are now in Hell is a flat contradiction in terms, for Hell is a prison ( Matthew 5:25; Peter 3:19).