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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?3

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Oct 2, 2021.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    1 John 3:7, ". . . Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. . . ."
     
  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Christs death does something for all them He died for, Put their sins away and Justified them before God, then later and Christs death does something in each person He died for, gives them a new birth, a new man, a new heart by which they begin the life of faith.
     
  3. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    OK, thanks. But am I understanding right? Are you saying that your sins are put away and you are justified and then later are born again and given a new heart?
     
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Good verse, I agree with it 100% and Christs death will achieve that for all whom He died, His Sheep !
     
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  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You do understand my view in agreeing here is not solely the limited atonement of Calvinism. Romans 8:34. Romans 14:9.
     
  7. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Brightfame. Where are you getting this? Some hyper-Calvinists think justification occurs from eternity or from the time Christ died but if I understand you you are not a Calvinist. Most non Calvinist Baptists believe you believe first and then are born again, justified, and begin a new life. Is this from a certain school of thought or what?
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Romans 5:1. 'Therefore, having been justified [past tense] by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.'

    We are justified by faith, and we have no peace with God until we believe and are declared righteous (Isaiah 57:21).
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The inevitable results of Christ's Obedience !

    Just as by ones man's disobedience, those that he federally represented, were made actually disobedient See Paul's statement to the Elect here Titus 3:3

    For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

    So likewise, by one mans obedience, those He federally represented shall be made actually obedient !

    Rom 5:19

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
     
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I stand by what I stated.
     
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  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying that the Blood of Christ didn't secure and make peace with God for them He died for and put away their sins ? Col 1:20

    And,having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    He did no such thing.
     
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    He did no such thing ? Friend you way off. Christs death put sin away and made peace Col 1:20

    20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

    Isa 53:5

    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    May God open your understanding to the wonders of the Cross.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I did not write "Christ," I wrote "he" I was refering to what @Martin Marprelate had written.

    See your post #111 to @Martin Marprelate
     
    #114 37818, Jan 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think that maybe your problem is that you are regarding salvation as synonymous with justification.
    Salvation is the whole process from before the foundation of the world when God the Father chose a people and gave them to the Son to redeem, right up to the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of time. The Bible teaches that we have been saved, we are being saved and we shall be saved
    Justification is the pivotal point in that process when a sinner repents and trusts in Christ for salvation. At that point God justifies him - that is, He declares him legally righteous - because the Lord Jesus' perfect righteousness is imputed to him and his sins taken away by Christ's atonement. We are justified by faith (Romans 3:28; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; 3:22, 24).

    Faith is that which connects us to Christ and to the benefits which He bestows. It is like the cable that connects the electricity from the switch to the lamp. Before we believe, we may (or may not) be elect, but we are not justified and not adopted into God's family. If you ask why God arranged things this way, it is because it pleased Him to do so. 'For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe' (1 Corinthians 1:21, ESV).

    A good book to read on this subject is What is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen (Banner of Truth).
     
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  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    1 Pet 2:24

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    The End of Christ's Death, the bearing of Our Sins on the Tree, not for everyone but for His Elect 1 Pet 1:1-2, the end design was that we may Live unto Righteousness or to Live by Faith, now if this end was not obtained in this life, for everyone Christ bared their sins, His death was a failure to the Purpose of God, but if it was not a failure, which it was not, then all who die in their sins and meet with eternal damnation Matt 25:41, He did not bear their sins on in His Body on the Tree ! 10
     
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying that the Blood of Christ didn't secure and make peace with God for them He died for and put away their sins ? Col 1:20

    And,having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Yes or no please.
     
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    We know that Christ's Death is efficacious for all whom He died by this Blessed Passage of the Covenant Heb 9:15-17

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

    17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

    In one of the ways this Covenental Death takes effect, is because the Mediator of it, the Lord Jesus Christ Vs 15 has risen from the dead to be the executor of it [apply its benefits], for He being exalted to be a Prince and Saviour Acts 5:31, He therefore dispenses with the benefits of His Covenantal Death, which includes giving Repentance and Remission of sins to His Elect [Israel of God] and in this way His death takes effect. These blessed effects were foretold here in this prophecy Isa 53:10-11

    10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    By it stating " The pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His Hand", this means for all whom He died, all the Father desired to be saved and come to a knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim 2:4, this prospered in His Hand and was accomplished !
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    No, I am not saying that at all as you know very well. Are you saying that Romans 5:1 is wrong, or not in your Bible?
     
  20. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Christ is a Saviour to Israel, His Church !

    Christ in being a Saviour, does not make Salvation possible, for that is only to be a possible Saviour, which is no Saviour at all, but He is Actually a Saviour,no not to everyone in the World, for that was never God's Promise, but to Israel, a elect people out of every tribe and kindred.

    The promise is that Israel shall be saved Isa 45:17

    But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

    Israel here means God's Elect from amongst jew and gentile.

    Paul preached that according to PROMISE God hath raised up a Saviour Unto Israel Acts 13:23

    23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    Folks, Jesus came only to save a elect people name Israel Matt 1:21

    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people[Israel] from their sins.

    Now notice what Paul preached in Acts 13:23, that these same words did apply to some gentiles, we know from vs 42

    42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

    The words of Acts 13:23, simply because they too partake of the Promises of the Gospel to Israel Eph 3:6

    That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    What are the promises in Christ by the Gospel ? Well its promises like Isa 45:17

    17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

    Yes, that was a mystery back then, that the gentiles would be fellowheirs of that Gospel promise to Israel.

    So Christ as the risen Saviour gives Repentance to Israel His Elect Acts 5:31 and Acts 11:18

    Those gentiles of Acts 11:18 are fellowheirs with the Israel of Acts 5:31.

    So all for whom Christ died, His Israel, are given Repentance unto life ! Thats why He is a Saviour unto them !
     
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