The Atonement.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for! I hope for the promises given By God in the scriptures will be fulfilled for me, and for my children, and my parents and siblings and their children, etc., etc., etc., I hope that everything God's word tells me is true and not just some mystical collection of writings. I hope that when Jesus returns, that I too will be among those resurrected on that day to serve and to reign with him for the millennium, for those who are so resurrected need not fear the judgment, especially the second death! I hope that when Jesus returns he will find me doing that which is pleasing in his eyes.

Those are some of the things I hope for, and it is my faith in Jesus, even on his name, that forms the substance of those things! You see all we have in this life, is the promise of what is to be! We do not already have everlasting life, only the promise of it! We have not been judged, except for those who reject Jesus, and they are judged already by their lack of faith in Jesus. We don't know that our sin has been atoned, all we have is the Word of God that says so. We won't know, until the time when we are to be judged, and instead of being cast into the lake of fire we are ushered into the presence of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. THEN WE WILL KNOW! and there will no longer be any faith!

Nothing in scripture even hints of faith being needed in Heaven or on the New Earth! There will be no need for repentance there either, for we will already have done so, else we wouldn't be there.

Faith is also the ONLY evidence I can offer to show that what I hope for even exists! There is no tangible evidence that can convince a jury that the things I hope for are real. I cannot hold in my hand even one little scrap of evidence that a place that I can only attempt to imagine even exists, can you? It is because we do not have experiential evidence, that we have faith.

I hope that you can comprehend the magnitude and depth of what I am telling you.

 

Please explain these sayings.

What sins Wes?</font>[/QUOTE]I thought you had a hard one for me, but look who Jesus is talking to? Look at the setting, look at the law, look at what Jesus is saying. The truth is this. Man does not die because of sin, but if man does not repent from sinning, but continues to sin right up to his death, then he obviously dies in his sin! However, if man believes in Jesus, and accepts what Jesus says about sin, and repents from sinning, he will not die IN HIS SIN, but will instead, and because all sin is atoned, pass from death into life everlasting, a repentant sinner saved through faith while God's grace prevails.

Does that mean then that we can continue in sin because we have faith in the Christ? Paul says "God forbid!" In order to live our faith we must repent from sinning because one cannot demonstrate faith through sin, only through repentance!

As for 8:23 "if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." That is because without such belief you have no reason to stop sinning, because you have nothing to fear! You don't believe heaven or hell exists outside of yourself! You don't believe there is a spiritual realm, only this present physical realm. Why then should you repent? Why then should you believe in everlasting life? Why then should you believe....? Because you have not actively believed, you have passively rejected the Christ to you own detriment!

Yes, The Christ will come into whomever opens the door when he knocks. He does not send an email message to you telling you that he will arrive soon and knock on your hearts door. He knocks without warning, but he does not knock the door down! He will not enter where He is not wanted! You must respond to Him, and he gives all mankind the opportunity to do so, and many from the "other sheep" do hear his voice and come to him.

 

You seem to be saying that you cannot recognize that I am marked for Salvation by my faith in Jesus which I have steadfastly posted repeatedly for you. You seem to be judging that I am not saved! Who gave you that authority?

Deny everlasting hell? Well maybe! I believe that when this heaven and this earth pass away as scriptures declare they will, that Hell will pass away with them because there will never again be a need for hell. That passing away will be for all of eternity because they will never reappear, so I guess that means that those who have gone to hell have done so forever! Even though at some point in the space time continuum, hell will cease to exist, it remains an everlasting cessation to exist!

I believe in the Resurrection, I just don't yet have a grasp on the definition of "body" that will be resurrected. I believe that in the spirit realm, that the spirit is "the body", for God is spirit and we are made in the image of God. I believe that image means that we will be in the likeness of God, but not be God. Therefore, If God is spirit, then we too are spirit! Neither Paul not John, who report having been taken to heaven, wrote in their descriptions of what they saw there, that the beings were physical natural flesh bodies walking around on streets of Gold. So it remains simply a matter of faith, that it, what one wants to believe.

The atonement does not save, God saves. The atonement paid the penalty for sin, ALL SIN in ALL TIMES, so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM, should not die, but have everlasting life. The atonement removed the barrier to everlasting life, but it remains man's FAITH IN GOD, that brings salvation to the one with the faith.

Guilt always remains with the perpetrator of the sin that brought the guilt. That guilt cannot be reassigned to another, for no other committed the sin. You cannot place the guilt for your sin on an innocent person! As long as you do not understand this, you will always remain confused! The innocent person however, can voluntarily accept the punishment the crime carries in your stead...this is known as atonement! The innocent atoning for the guilty!

When did I ever say that I do not believe in Hell? Childish of you Johnp! Hell will be full of people who refused to believe in Jesus. The fact that their sins are atoned is inconsequential to their fate for not believing in Jesus!

Heaven will indeed have lots and lots of people who are guilty of having sinned, but repented, and who believed in Jesus who atoned for their sins. You see, it is not a sinless person who gets to heaven, is it those who have faith In the Christ who atoned for their sins that gets them there. Wake up Johnp, smell the coffee!

The Goat is not important, it is merely a symbol of a reality!

 

Yippie ky yea!

 

Cowboys beat up little "tea" boys eh?

 

Now you assume I don't know about the Boston Tea Party because I am Canadian?

John...do you get drunk and stampede SOCCER (not football but soccer) fields when Arsenal scores off a blooday head volley because you are from England?

 

Does this mean the revolution is about to begin again?

Awe what the heck, a little revolution is good now and then wouldn't you agree?

 

Man oh Man...LOL...John I know you don't mean to but you really do make me laugh. God must love me.

anyway...on to the critique:

Who said anything about a stampede of one? By using the word stampede it is clear what I meant. That you would "follow" the others...am I gettin somewhere Johnny? *knock knock* You would be a fool to storm the field...I mean pitch...by yourself.

"John...do you get drunk and stampede SOCCER (not football but soccer) fields when Arsenal scores off a blooday head volley because you are from England?" I meant exactly what I said. I said nothing about international soccer. I know Arsenal is in the English league. I picked Arsenal due to the name and said, "...since you are from England" because you are from England. People in England rush the field at almost every soccer game...we all know that. It's really all so simple...I don't know how you assumed that I had no soccer knowledge.

As for my "lack" of Bible knowledge...well...I'm not the one who said God hates Himself now am I?

 

Atonement: The once for all payment of the penalty of sin! No man dies because of sin, only because of lack of faith!

 

14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "

It's time for Eli again because Eli's house were refused an atonement as the scriputes say. You continue to ignore the scripture to carry on with your false doctrine that says that all sins are atoned for.
Clearly and unambiguosly wrong you are.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]Agreed, the wage for sin is death...Jesus died ONCE FOR ALL so that we do not have to die because of sin!

Eli's family was refused atonement because Eli's house refused to repent from CURSING GOD, the one who brought them atonement! Has something to do with leading the horse to water, but not being able to make him drink!

Open your mind and let the SON shine in! You are so close minded that when the truth knocks on your door, you will not open the door and let him in!

 

Jesus did not atone for the household of Eli.

We are not discussing the reason but the exclusion of Eli's family is a new position of yours? Or you mean Jesus did atone for Eli's house?

Are you saying that Eli's kids go to Hell for their sins or are their sins atoned for?

john. </font>[/QUOTE]Obviously then, you deny the scriptures, because the scriptures tell us that Jesus died ONCE FOR ALL to atone for sin. Interpreted as ALL sin in ALL time! So that whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish but have everlasting life!. Stop being so ignorant of the scriptures!

NO! Jesus did not atone for ELI's HOUSE, or your house, or anyone's house! Jesus atoned for SIN!