The Baptism debate

[Moriah]

1. That is why Jesus died for the penalty of our sin. No man can keep the works of the law. The law was there simply to show to the Israelites and to us that we are sinners. No one can keep the law.

THE JEWS HAD TO KEEP THE WORKS OF THE LAW LIKE CIRCUMCISION, AND VARIOUS EXTERNAL WASHINGS!

2. Gal.3:10 was written to believers not to Jews. Why would Paul be explaining this to believers. Because believers could not keep the law, nor could they get to heaven by doing any kind of good works, whether it be by baptism, church attendance, prayer, etc. Those are all works by which no man can attain salvation.

Why would not those in Galatia know the history of the Jews?! Why would Paul not explain the history of those who once only belonged to God?! Not only that, there were Jews in Galatia trying to get the Christians to conform to the Law of Moses!!

3. Eph. 2:8,9 the truth really comes out--For by grace are ye saved through faith...not of works. This means not of any works: baptism, prayer, church attendance, etc. No amount of works can save. It is faith alone in Christ and his atoning work. To say that faith plus works or faith plus obedience is the same as saying that the sacrifice of Christ failed. His blood was insufficient. He didn't suffer enough. He didn't satisfy the demands of the Father.
This is what you are saying when you say that obedience is necessary for salvation.

It is you that does not understand salvation--faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone.

We have to believe. Believing is a work; it is the work God requires. We have to obey and repent! You have no understanding when the Bible speaks of works to save, and trusting in Jesus’ blood to save. God chooses whom He will live with. We must believe and repent!

 

[DHK]

THE JEWS HAD TO KEEP THE WORKS OF THE LAW LIKE CIRCUMCISION, AND VARIOUS EXTERNAL WASHINGS!

But they didn't and couldn't. That is what Paul said in Gal.3:10. No man can keep perfectly the law. That is why Christ came--to save us from the penalty of the law--eternal separation from God.

The wages of sin is death (eternal death).

Why would not those in Galatia know the history of the Jews?! Why would Paul not explain the history of those who once only belonged to God?! Not only that, there were Jews in Galatia trying to get the Christians to conform to the Law of Moses!!

Paul was there to teach them the gospel not to instruct them in the ways of the Jews. They were believers in Christ, there to learn about Christ, not Judaism. Don't be foolish. For what purpose do you go to church--to learn about Hanukkah???

We have to believe. Believing is a work; it is the work God requires. We have to obey and repent! You have no understanding when the Bible speaks of works to save, and trusting in Jesus’ blood to save. God chooses whom He will live with. We must believe and repent!

1. Faith is not a work. Read Romans 4:1-5. In this you do err.
2. There is no obedience required. We are saved by faith alone. If you add works (obedience), then you believe that the death of Christ was in vain, and his blood was insufficient to pay the penalty for our sins.
3. God chooses those who trust in His son. John 5:24.
You keep testifying that you are a Calvinist.

 

[Moriah]

But they didn't and couldn't. That is what Paul said in Gal.3:10. No man can keep perfectly the law. That is why Christ came--to save us from the penalty of the law--eternal separation from God.

Are you now admitting that the works of the law is various external washings, observance of special days, dietary laws, various offerings for sins? Do you understand that now? Do you understand that God nailed those things to the cross? Do you understand now that God did not ever nail REPENTING to the cross? We must always REPENT. We must always OBEY, even after we sin!

Paul was there to teach them the gospel not to instruct them in the ways of the Jews. They were believers in Christ, there to learn about Christ, not Judaism. Don't be foolish. For what purpose do you go to church--to learn about Hanukkah???

You can hardly debate without calling me names.
If someone was coming to all the Christians telling them they had to obey the Law of Moses, why would your pastor not speak about it? Why would not those in Galatia know the history of the Jews?! Why would Paul not explain the history of those who once only belonged to God?! Not only that, there were Jews in Galatia trying to get the Christians to conform to the Law of Moses!!

1. Faith is not a work. Read Romans 4:1-5. In this you do err.

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." John 6:29

Why do you not believe Jesus?

2. There is no obedience required. We are saved by faith alone. If you add works (obedience), then you believe that the death of Christ was in vain, and his blood was insufficient to pay the penalty for our sins.

I speak the Word of God.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

3. God chooses those who trust in His son. John 5:24.
You keep testifying that you are a Calvinist.

You keep telling untruths about me. Why is that?

God chooses those who trust in His Son that His Son died for sinners that we are to live a new life through Jesus. You do not even think about what trust in Jesus means. You say we cannot even be sorry for our sins, but what does the message say? The message that saves tells us that sin is wrong! If I hear the message that saves and do not believe I am a sinner and must stop, you claim Jesus will still give me his Spirit. YOU CLAIM WE ONLY HAVE TO BELIEVE. HOWEVER, YOU DENY WHAT IT IS THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE! Jesus says he gives the Spirit to those who obey him, see John 14:23. You do not know the deeper things of God. You go against God when you deny the scriptures that say repent. You even deny that repenting means to be sorry for our sins. That is nonsense. For who believes in Jesus, and does not want to give up sins, and thinks they have a relationship with God and be saved from His wrath? Stop teaching nonsense, nonsense that the devil approves.

 

[DHK]

Are you now admitting that the works of the law is various external washings, observance of special days, dietary laws, various offerings for sins? Do you understand that now? Do you understand that God nailed those things to the cross? Do you understand now that God did not ever nail REPENTING to the cross? We must always REPENT. We must always OBEY, even after we sin!

How often do you refer to context? Rarely, is the answer. This verse (applicable to you) is just a few verses before the verse being discussed:

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Are you so foolish? Not to look at the text and see what Paul is talking about and see the problem in Galatia? The problem was the Judaizers that were following Paul and infiltrated Galatia, convincing some that keeping the law and being circumcised were requirements for salvation. Thus Paul emphasized that the keeping of the Jewish law was not necessary at all. But there are other applications to the passage as well, but you refuse to see this.

No amount of works, good works or other, will gain entrance into heaven. Faith in Christ alone is the only way of salvation. Any other way is heresy, or as Paul says in Gal.1:8, accursed.

You can hardly debate without calling me names.
If someone was coming to all the Christians telling them they had to obey the Law of Moses, why would your pastor not speak about it? Why would not those in Galatia know the history of the Jews?!

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
--That is why.

Why would Paul not explain the history of those who once only belonged to God?! Not only that, there were Jews in Galatia trying to get the Christians to conform to the Law of Moses!!

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
--That is all they needed to know about the OT.
They needed to know more about Christ. They were followers of HIM, who died for them.

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." John 6:29

Why do you not believe Jesus?

I speak the Word of God.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And so? I believe the Scriptures. You twist them. That is all that I can conclude.

You keep telling untruths about me. Why is that?

What untruths have I told?

God chooses those who trust in His Son that His Son died for sinners that we are to live a new life through Jesus. You do not even think about what trust in Jesus means. You say we cannot even be sorry for our sins, but what does the message say?

I didn't say that. I never said sorrow was "prohibited." I said sorrow won't save a person. That is not what is "required" for salvation. Faith is that which is required for salvation. It is faith that will save, not sorrow.

The message that saves tells us that sin is wrong! If I hear the message that saves and do not believe I am a sinner and must stop, you claim Jesus will still give me his Spirit. YOU CLAIM WE ONLY HAVE TO BELIEVE. HOWEVER, YOU DENY WHAT IT IS THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE!

I have always said that the object of our faith must be Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice. If your faith is not in Christ then your faith is vain.
1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Jesus says he gives the Spirit to those who obey him, see John 14:23.

Your foolishness in quoting this verse over and over again is astounding!
It has been demonstrated to you many times that this verse is applicable only to the disciples at the time of Jesus who were told to go to Jerusalem, and there they would wait for the coming of the Spirit which would come on the Day of Pentecost. You refuse to accept the Word of God, but rather pervert it.

You do not know the deeper things of God. You go against God when you deny the scriptures that say repent. You even deny that repenting means to be sorry for our sins.

That is because "repent" does not mean "be sorry for one's sins."
One cannot carry on an intelligent theological discussion when the other person refuses to use Biblical definitions.

That is nonsense. For who believes in Jesus, and does not want to give up sins, and thinks they have a relationship with God and be saved from His wrath? Stop teaching nonsense, nonsense that the devil approves.

Stop misquoting me. Learn what salvation is. If you want to be saved it must be by faith alone. Quitting sins or giving up sins is not salvation, it is reformation. That is something many of the pagan religions teach. But Christianity teaches no such thing.

 

[Moriah]

How often do you refer to context? Rarely, is the answer. This verse (applicable to you) is just a few verses before the verse being discussed:

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Are you so foolish? Not to look at the text and see what Paul is talking about and see the problem in Galatia? The problem was the Judaizers that were following Paul and infiltrated Galatia, convincing some that keeping the law and being circumcised were requirements for salvation. Thus Paul emphasized that the keeping of the Jewish law was not necessary at all. But there are other applications to the passage as well, but you refuse to see this.

No amount of works, good works or other, will gain entrance into heaven. Faith in Christ alone is the only way of salvation. Any other way is heresy, or as Paul says in Gal.1:8, accursed.

The scripture you posted proves what I have been saying. It proves that Paul DID teach about the Jews ceremonial laws just to worship God. You said why would Paul speak about Jewish things to Christians. Lol The scripture you posted also prove that the works are things such as observing special days…something the law of works said the Jews had to do, or they would be cut off.

I didn't say that. I never said sorrow was "prohibited." I said sorrow won't save a person. That is not what is "required" for salvation. Faith is that which is required for salvation. It is faith that will save, not sorrow.

Repent is to be sorry. The Bible says to believe AND repent. You should stop denying the scriptures and going against them.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him


Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Oh how I love the Word of God!

I have always said that the object of our faith must be Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice. If your faith is not in Christ then your faith is vain.

Faith in Jesus means what to you DHK; explain what faith in Jesus means. Lol

Your foolishness in quoting this verse over and over again is astounding!
It has been demonstrated to you many times that this verse is applicable only to the disciples at the time of Jesus who were told to go to Jerusalem, and there they would wait for the coming of the Spirit which would come on the Day of Pentecost. You refuse to accept the Word of God, but rather pervert it.

How much more is that the truth for anyone and everyone if it is said to the Apostles! You think you have said something intelligent against what that scripture means. If the Apostles must obey before they receive the Holy Spirit, then all must obey before they receive the Holy Spirit.

That is because "repent" does not mean "be sorry for one's sins."
One cannot carry on an intelligent theological discussion when the other person refuses to use Biblical definitions.

Repent in any language means to be sorry for your sins. It means that in Aramaic, Greek, and English.
To repent and not be sorry is a false confession.

Stop misquoting me. Learn what salvation is. If you want to be saved it must be by faith alone. Quitting sins or giving up sins is not salvation, it is reformation. That is something many of the pagan religions teach. But Christianity teaches no such thing.

You are the one who needs to stop misquoting people.

Believe and repent!

 

[DHK]

The scripture you posted proves what I have been saying. It proves that Paul DID teach about the Jews ceremonial laws just to worship God. You said why would Paul speak about Jewish things to Christians. Lol The scripture you posted also prove that the works are things such as observing special days…something the law of works said the Jews had to do, or they would be cut off.

The Scripture proves that Paul acquainted them with enough knowledge about OT law and circumcision to refute the cult known at the "Judaizers." They did not need in-depth study of the Law or of Judaism in order to counter this cult who demanded that the law and circumcision be required for salvation.
So your my post does not support what you have been saying at all. It refutes it. Paul preached unto them Christ, just as Philip did with the Ethiopian Eunuch.

To the Corinthians Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
--This was his goal. It was not to preach the Law. It was to preach Christ.

Before Paul was even baptized his purpose in life was revealed to Anannias:
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
--He was to bear the name of Christ before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. He would bear the name of Christ, not teach Judaism, or the Law.

Repent is to be sorry. The Bible says to believe AND repent. You should stop denying the scriptures and going against them.

As long as you have this cock-eyed definition of repentance, any discussion about repentance with you is futile. That is not what repentance is. People feel sorry for their sins many times but never repent. Sorrow is simply an emotion. We have a lot of sorry people in this world. They are sorry for many things that they have done. Some mothers have been sorry that they even brought children into the world. It is a sorry world we live in. Sorrow is not repentance.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Those verses are all meaningless because of your skewed idea of what repentance is. It is not being sorry.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

He is the author and finisher of our faith. You have taken the verse out of context.

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

That is his general will. It is partly expressed in the Great Commission. But you have already told me that you don't believe in the Great Commission, so why would you quote this verse?

Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Again, if you don't believe in the Great Commission why would you quote the truth stated in this verse.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Scripture taken out of context, as has been shown you many times.
If we showed you that God spoke to Moses in a burning bush, would you also claim that God should speak to you in a burning bush? That is what ou claim here and in John 14:23, that historical acts, those things that happened in history should also be applicable to you today. But it was Moses that was able to be God's instrument to bring about the Ten Plagues, not you.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

They were commanded to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit at the Day of Pentecost. That command was never given to you. Were you ever commanded to cross the Jordan River and march around walls of Jericho and in obeying that command see the walls of the city fall? That is a command of Scripture, Moriah. Why not apply that command to you? Why don't you go to that place in the Holy Land and carry it out?
Why? Because it was given to Joshua, ca. 1400 B.C. or 3,400 years ago.
Likewise John 14:23 was not given to Moriah, it was given to the disciples of Jesus ca. 28 A.D. and is not applicable to you at all. You were not told to go to Jerusalem. You were not told to wait for the coming of the Spirit. You were not at that Day of Pentecost. You were not there. Why are you claiming you were. You have as much right to claim that promise as you do in the OT for the conquering of the walls in Jericho--none, nada, zilch!

Oh how I love the Word of God!

Then obey; not pervert it.

Faith in Jesus means what to you DHK; explain what faith in Jesus means. Lol

Faith is trust or confidence in the word of another that what he said is true and will come to pass. Faith always has an object. In the Bible the object of our faith is Jesus Christ. The best definition of faith is given in Romans 4, as exemplified by Abraham:

Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

1. Notice that Abraham was strong in faith. That is what it states. His faith was strong. Then it tells us what his faith was.

2. "Being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform."
--That is a definition of faith--Being fully persuaded that what God has promised, God will do. There was no doubt in Abraham's mind. He was fully persuaded.

How much more is that the truth for anyone and everyone if it is said to the Apostles! You think you have said something intelligent against what that scripture means. If the Apostles must obey before they receive the Holy Spirit, then all must obey before they receive the Holy Spirit.

1 Kings 17:16 And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD,

Is this promise for you also? Do you ever have to buy wheat (or perhaps barley), or bread of any kind, or cooking oil (olive oil, specifically)? It never ran out. Was that promise for you? It would be nice to have your basic food supplies free wouldn't it? But that promise was not for you?
Neither was John 14:23. it was given to the disciples in the first century and applicable only to them. What happened on the Day of Pentecost? Were you there as an eye-witness? Then John 14:23 doesn't apply to you.

Repent in any language means to be sorry for your sins. It means that in Aramaic, Greek, and English.
To repent and not be sorry is a false confession.

I suppose that "church" in any language means "the building that the people of a religion gather in." One commentator reporting on the seven dead near Milwaukee mistakenly called their place of worship a "church." It is a Gurdwara, not a church. But the Bible recognizes no such definition at all. The church is the people (baptized immersed believers) that gather together in local assemblies for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission and obeying the Lord in the two ordinances of the Lord's Supper and baptism. A church is always local. It is not a building, not a Biblical definition.
You can quote all the secular definitions you want of repentance. But until you come to the Biblical definition of repentance you will never understand Biblical teaching on the subject. It is never, never being sorry for your sins. "Sorry" that you don't understand that. (And I didn't repent in saying that).

You are the one who needs to stop misquoting people.

I don't misquote people. As you can see I answer everything you say, by directly quoting you. However, I will quote myself from one of my last posts once again:

It is you that does not understand salvation--faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone.

Do you believe the above statement. Yes or no?

 

[Moriah]

The Scripture proves that Paul acquainted them with enough knowledge about OT law and circumcision to refute the cult known at the "Judaizers." They did not need in-depth study of the Law or of Judaism in order to counter this cult who demanded that the law and circumcision be required for salvation.
So your my post does not support what you have been saying at all. It refutes it.

What you say is absolutely no defense for the truth. You said Paul would not teach Gentiles about Jewish history. I have proved with scripture that Paul did talk about the works of the Jews and I have even proven why.

To the Corinthians Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
--This was his goal. It was not to preach the Law. It was to preach Christ.

What do you think you have explained and proved here?

Preaching about Jesus is to preach about the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. How do you teach that about Jesus being the sacrificial Lamb without explaining what God commanded the Jews with the blood of animals?

Before Paul was even baptized his purpose in life was revealed to Anannias:
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
--He was to bear the name of Christ before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. He would bear the name of Christ, not teach Judaism, or the Law.

Wow. How and why leave out God’s word in the Old Testament. What you say are about human feelings and thoughts not based on the Holy Bible.

As long as you have this cock-eyed definition of repentance, any discussion about repentance with you is futile. That is not what repentance is. People feel sorry for their sins many times but never repent. Sorrow is simply an emotion. We have a lot of sorry people in this world. They are sorry for many things that they have done. Some mothers have been sorry that they even brought children into the world. It is a sorry world we live in. Sorrow is not repentance.

You go against every language in the world and their definition of repent. You go against the scriptures. Your argument is another based on unscriptural human reasoning which nullifies God’s word.

We must believe AND repent. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

God does not want your fake repentance. You teach others to give dirty rag repentance.

The Bible tells us about not cherishing sin. The Bible tells us to have a contrite heart concerning sin.

Those verses are all meaningless because of your skewed idea of what repentance is. It is not being sorry.

I gave you many scriptures saying to repent. I have shown from God’s Word that it is something we must do.

He is the author and finisher of our faith. You have taken the verse out of context.

I have not taken this scripture out of context. You have said many times we do not even have to obey to be saved.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

That is his general will. It is partly expressed in the Great Commission. But you have already told me that you don't believe in the Great Commission, so why would you quote this verse?

You accusations against me do not change the Truth, that we must BELIEVE AND OBEY.

Again, if you don't believe in the Great Commission why would you quote the truth stated in this verse.

We have to obey; those are whom Jesus said will be blessed.

If we showed you that God spoke to Moses in a burning bush, would you also claim that God should speak to you in a burning bush? That is what ou claim here and in John 14:23, that historical acts, those things that happened in history should also be applicable to you today. But it was Moses that was able to be God's instrument to bring about the Ten Plagues, not you.

Your argument is unwarranted and illogical.

God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him. That is the clear truth of the scriptures.

They were commanded to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit at the Day of Pentecost. That command was never given to you. Were you ever commanded to cross the Jordan River and march around walls of Jericho and in obeying that command see the walls of the city fall? That is a command of Scripture, Moriah. Why not apply that command to you? Why don't you go to that place in the Holy Land and carry it out?
Why? Because it was given to Joshua, ca. 1400 B.C. or 3,400 years ago.
Likewise John 14:23 was not given to Moriah, it was given to the disciples of Jesus ca. 28 A.D. and is not applicable to you at all. You were not told to go to Jerusalem. You were not told to wait for the coming of the Spirit. You were not at that Day of Pentecost. You were not there. Why are you claiming you were. You have as much right to claim that promise as you do in the OT for the conquering of the walls in Jericho--none, nada, zilch!

Wow. More nonsense human based logic. What does any of what you said have to do what Jesus said? Everything you said is an attempt to go against the Truth.

Jesus said if ANYONE does not obey him, they are the ones who do NOT love him. Who is that about? Is that only about the Apostles in the room? NO.

Jesus said if ANYONE obeys his commands, the Father will love him, and the Father and Jesus will make their home with him.

Then obey; not pervert it.

I do not pervert the Word of God.

Faith is trust or confidence in the word of another that what he said is true and will come to pass. Faith always has an object. In the Bible the object of our faith is Jesus Christ. The best definition of faith is given in Romans 4, as exemplified by Abraham:

Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

1. Notice that Abraham was strong in faith. That is what it states. His faith was strong. Then it tells us what his faith was.

2. "Being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform."
--That is a definition of faith--Being fully persuaded that what God has promised, God will do. There was no doubt in Abraham's mind. He was fully persuaded.

You did NOT answer the question. What is it that you have faith in Jesus?

When you come to understand what the faith IN Jesus is, maybe you will come to understand what that actually means. The message that saves, and faith in Jesus is the knowledge and understanding that Jesus died for our sins, that sins are bad, and sins are something you understand you have to repent of, and that you will live a new life according to the Way that Jesus taught.

Just to explain faith, as you have done, or to explain that you have faith in the name, that does not explain anything really.

Explain what it is that you have faith in Jesus for, what the message that saves is, and you might admit that repenting in sorrow for your sins is a natural heart requirement before being saved.

There are many scriptures that tell us to BELIEVE AND REPENT.

1 Kings 17:16 And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD,

Is this promise for you also? Do you ever have to buy wheat (or perhaps barley), or bread of any kind, or cooking oil (olive oil, specifically)? It never ran out. Was that promise for you? It would be nice to have your basic food supplies free wouldn't it? But that promise was not for you?
Neither was John 14:23. it was given to the disciples in the first century and applicable only to them. What happened on the Day of Pentecost? Were you there as an eye-witness? Then John 14:23 doesn't apply to you.

More illogical arguments from you to try to nullify God’s Word; Jesus says if anyone gets his teachings and obeys them, he will give them the Holy Spirit.

 

[DHK]

What you say is absolutely no defense for the truth. You said Paul would not teach Gentiles about Jewish history. I have proved with scripture that Paul did talk about the works of the Jews and I have even proven why.

You have proven no such thing. Can you demonstrate that Paul taught them any history at all--that Manesseh was the most wicked king of Judah, while Josiah the youngest one of the best kings of Judah. Where did Paul teach such things as that to the Galatians. You have a vivid imagination, and an art for eisigesis. But then so does the RCC and many of the cults. So where is your proof?

What do you think you have explained and proved here?

Preaching about Jesus is to preach about the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. How do you teach that about Jesus being the sacrificial Lamb without explaining what God commanded the Jews with the blood of animals?

The letter to the Galatians was probably written in the late 50's. That is not even 30 years following the death of Christ, which would have still been fresh in the mind of everyone in the Roman empire. It was a momentous event in their history. Paul did not have to go through all the OT history.
He simply had to:
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
--This was his goal. It was not to preach the Law. It was to preach Christ.
He was not an allegorist. That is what the heretic Origen started doing with the Scriptures. Don't blame Paul. Paul preached Christ.

Wow. How and why leave out God’s word in the Old Testament. What you say are about human feelings and thoughts not based on the Holy Bible.

Are you misrepresenting what I said? Lying again?
Beware Moriah:
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
--Almost every day you come on this board and misrepresent what I say. You lie. It seems to be a way of life with you.

Here is what I originally said:

Before Paul was even baptized his purpose in life was revealed to Anannias:
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
--He was to bear the name of Christ before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. He would bear the name of Christ, not teach Judaism, or the Law.

What does this have to do with human feelings and the OT? It has to do with God's purpose for Paul's life. Your deceitful answer had nothing to do with my post at all. I wasn't even addressing the subject of emotions.

You go against every language in the world and their definition of repent. You go against the scriptures. Your argument is another based on unscriptural human reasoning which nullifies God’s word.

You stick to your dictionaries; I will derive the meaning from the Bible.

We must believe AND repent. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

It is hard for you to repent when you don't know what the word means.

God does not want your fake repentance. You teach others to give dirty rag repentance.

The Bible tells us about not cherishing sin. The Bible tells us to have a contrite heart concerning sin.

So it does. But when you don't have a clue what repentance is, then how can you rectify that situation. You don't know how to repent as long as you don't know the definition of what repentance is. This is truly sad.

I gave you many scriptures saying to repent. I have shown from God’s Word that it is something we must do.

And so you did. And, you attach your meaning of repentance to each and every one of them. Thus we come up with a Moriah-theology skewed interpretation of repentance that the Bible doesn't teach. When you insert your own meaning into the word, then all you have taught is your own idea, and not any scriptural truth at all.

I have not taken this scripture out of context. You have said many times we do not even have to obey to be saved.

Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. It is not of works, not of obedience. But you throw that verse into the trash can. You don't believe it.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

He is speaking to believers.
He is the author and finisher of our faith also. That means what he has started in our salvation he will also finish. IOW, he will never allow our salvation to be lost. So, not only he is the source, but also the end. It is a completed salvation. But you don't believe that do you.

You sinned in lying about me. If you don't repent, have a heart attack before repentance, would you go to heaven?

You accusations against me do not change the Truth, that we must BELIEVE AND OBEY.

To believe and obey means to believe and obey the Great Commission. That is what I was referring to. Will you believe and obey the Great Commission, the last and most important command that Christ left us with before he ascended back up into heaven, a command that is repeated in every gospel as well as the Book of Acts? Will you believe and obey that command?

We have to obey; those are whom Jesus said will be blessed.

Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
You just said "we have to obey." When are you packing your bags? Which country are you going to?
"He that forsaketh not all that he has cannot be my disciple."
Are you having a garage sale and selling all that you have? House too?

Your argument is unwarranted and illogical.

No it isn't. I showed you how you keep taking Scriptures, like John 14:23 out of context. You use it as your mantra to teach false doctrine. You can't give an answer to my post so you simply say my argument is unwarranted!!! Can't you do better than that?? If you think it is unwarranted and illogical then refute it! Here it is again:

If we showed you that God spoke to Moses in a burning bush, would you also claim that God should speak to you in a burning bush? That is what ou claim here and in John 14:23, that historical acts, those things that happened in history should also be applicable to you today. But it was Moses that was able to be God's instrument to bring about the Ten Plagues, not you.

God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him. That is the clear truth of the scriptures.

No that is not true. He gives the Holy Spirit to all that come to Him by faith and faith alone. All those who trust Christ as Savior receive the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation.

Wow. More nonsense human based logic. What does any of what you said have to do what Jesus said? Everything you said is an attempt to go against the Truth.

Try and understand. Just as the promise given to Joshua to inherit the promised land was not given to you, so the promise in John 14:23 was not given to you. God did not give you either one of those promises.

Jesus said if ANYONE does not obey him, they are the ones who do NOT love him. Who is that about? Is that only about the Apostles in the room? NO.

That depends upon what passage you are reading. There are similar promises given to the army that Gideon had. Are those promises for you as well. Neither is John 14:23.

Jesus said if ANYONE obeys his commands, the Father will love him, and the Father and Jesus will make their home with him.

The "anyone" in John 14:21 is spoken to disciples or believers and can only be applied to believers. It can never be applied to unbelievers.

I do not pervert the Word of God.

Everytime Scripture, like John 14:23 is taken out of its context and misapplied, then the Word of God is perverted.

You did NOT answer the question. What is it that you have faith in Jesus?

When you come to understand what the faith IN Jesus is, maybe you will come to understand what that actually means. The message that saves, and faith in Jesus is the knowledge and understanding that Jesus died for our sins, that sins are bad, and sins are something you understand you have to repent of, and that you will live a new life according to the Way that Jesus taught.

Just to explain faith, as you have done, or to explain that you have faith in the name, that does not explain anything really.

Explain what it is that you have faith in Jesus for, what the message that saves is, and you might admit that repenting in sorrow for your sins is a natural heart requirement before being saved.

There are many scriptures that tell us to BELIEVE AND REPENT.

I answered your question from the Bible, and in detail. If you do not like the answer it is because you do not like answers from the Bible. Perhaps you do not have the Bible as your authority, but rather yourself as your own authority. I have told you on many occasions that you don't understand what faith is. Now I can say with some authority that you don't understand what faith is. For when I explain what faith is from the Bible you don't accept it.

More illogical arguments from you to try to nullify God’s Word; Jesus says if anyone gets his teachings and obeys them, he will give them the Holy Spirit.

You think that you can claim EVERY promise in the Bible as your own. If so, you are greatly deluded.

 

[Wittenberger]

You have proven no such thing. Can you demonstrate that Paul taught them any history at all--that Manesseh was the most wicked king of Judah, while Josiah the youngest one of the best kings of Judah. Where did Paul teach such things as that to the Galatians. You have a vivid imagination, and an art for eisigesis. But then so does the RCC and many of the cults. So where is your proof?

The letter to the Galatians was probably written in the late 50's. That is not even 30 years following the death of Christ, which would have still been fresh in the mind of everyone in the Roman empire. It was a momentous event in their history. Paul did not have to go through all the OT history.
He simply had to:
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
--This was his goal. It was not to preach the Law. It was to preach Christ.
He was not an allegorist. That is what the heretic Origen started doing with the Scriptures. Don't blame Paul. Paul preached Christ.

Are you misrepresenting what I said? Lying again?
Beware Moriah:
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
--Almost every day you come on this board and misrepresent what I say. You lie. It seems to be a way of life with you.

Here is what I originally said:

Before Paul was even baptized his purpose in life was revealed to Anannias:
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
--He was to bear the name of Christ before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. He would bear the name of Christ, not teach Judaism, or the Law.

What does this have to do with human feelings and the OT? It has to do with God's purpose for Paul's life. Your deceitful answer had nothing to do with my post at all. I wasn't even addressing the subject of emotions.

You stick to your dictionaries; I will derive the meaning from the Bible.

It is hard for you to repent when you don't know what the word means.

So it does. But when you don't have a clue what repentance is, then how can you rectify that situation. You don't know how to repent as long as you don't know the definition of what repentance is. This is truly sad.

And so you did. And, you attach your meaning of repentance to each and every one of them. Thus we come up with a Moriah-theology skewed interpretation of repentance that the Bible doesn't teach. When you insert your own meaning into the word, then all you have taught is your own idea, and not any scriptural truth at all.

Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. It is not of works, not of obedience. But you throw that verse into the trash can. You don't believe it.

He is speaking to believers.
He is the author and finisher of our faith also. That means what he has started in our salvation he will also finish. IOW, he will never allow our salvation to be lost. So, not only he is the source, but also the end. It is a completed salvation. But you don't believe that do you.

You sinned in lying about me. If you don't repent, have a heart attack before repentance, would you go to heaven?

To believe and obey means to believe and obey the Great Commission. That is what I was referring to. Will you believe and obey the Great Commission, the last and most important command that Christ left us with before he ascended back up into heaven, a command that is repeated in every gospel as well as the Book of Acts? Will you believe and obey that command?

Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
You just said "we have to obey." When are you packing your bags? Which country are you going to?
"He that forsaketh not all that he has cannot be my disciple."
Are you having a garage sale and selling all that you have? House too?

No it isn't. I showed you how you keep taking Scriptures, like John 14:23 out of context. You use it as your mantra to teach false doctrine. You can't give an answer to my post so you simply say my argument is unwarranted!!! Can't you do better than that?? If you think it is unwarranted and illogical then refute it! Here it is again:

If we showed you that God spoke to Moses in a burning bush, would you also claim that God should speak to you in a burning bush? That is what ou claim here and in John 14:23, that historical acts, those things that happened in history should also be applicable to you today. But it was Moses that was able to be God's instrument to bring about the Ten Plagues, not you.

No that is not true. He gives the Holy Spirit to all that come to Him by faith and faith alone. All those who trust Christ as Savior receive the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation.

Try and understand. Just as the promise given to Joshua to inherit the promised land was not given to you, so the promise in John 14:23 was not given to you. God did not give you either one of those promises.

That depends upon what passage you are reading. There are similar promises given to the army that Gideon had. Are those promises for you as well. Neither is John 14:23.

The "anyone" in John 14:21 is spoken to disciples or believers and can only be applied to believers. It can never be applied to unbelievers.

Everytime Scripture, like John 14:23 is taken out of its context and misapplied, then the Word of God is perverted.

I answered your question from the Bible, and in detail. If you do not like the answer it is because you do not like answers from the Bible. Perhaps you do not have the Bible as your authority, but rather yourself as your own authority. I have told you on many occasions that you don't understand what faith is. Now I can say with some authority that you don't understand what faith is. For when I explain what faith is from the Bible you don't accept it.

You think that you can claim EVERY promise in the Bible as your own. If so, you are greatly deluded.

Dear Brother DHK:

I have started a new thread: Is Baptism the New Circumcision?

I would appreciate and enjoy your comments and that of anyone else interested in this topic. Please be so kind as to read all the comments in order from first to last prior to commenting.

Wittenberger

 

[reformed_baptist]

You yourself are making a very big assumption: that infants cannot believe.

Infants cannot believe, because belief is the intellectual excercise of faith, and it require the ability to think in abstract, something an infant is inacapable of doing, now do back and deal with the emat of my post if you can!

It is God who gives belief and repentance.

No, faith is the gift, not belief, and certainly not repentence!

See my comments above regarding John the Baptist. God can do some really miraculous things in infants, my friend!

I did.

 

[Moriah]

You have proven no such thing. Can you demonstrate that Paul taught them any history at all--that Manesseh was the most wicked king of Judah, while Josiah the youngest one of the best kings of Judah. Where did Paul teach such things as that to the Galatians. You have a vivid imagination, and an art for eisigesis. But then so does the RCC and many of the cults. So where is your proof?

You speak of irrelevant things. You cannot even prove that the Gentiles had no idea of the Jews and the animal sacrifices. Then you still have to prove that Paul never explained the works of the law to the Gentiles even though he speaks of it to them! You would also have to discount the fact that there were Jews trying to get them to follow the works of the Old Testament as given to Moses.

The letter to the Galatians was probably written in the late 50's. That is not even 30 years following the death of Christ, which would have still been fresh in the mind of everyone in the Roman empire. It was a momentous event in their history. Paul did not have to go through all the OT history.
He simply had to:
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
--This was his goal. It was not to preach the Law. It was to preach Christ.
He was not an allegorist. That is what the heretic Origen started doing with the Scriptures. Don't blame Paul. Paul preached Christ.

Now you are implying that the Gentiles knew the history of the Jews and did not need to be taught about it! You still have not explained how someone can preach Christ crucified without explaining that Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb of God, that only through the shedding of blood can sins be forgiven, and that Jesus died for our sins.

Are you misrepresenting what I said? Lying again?
Beware Moriah:
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
--Almost every day you come on this board and misrepresent what I say. You lie. It seems to be a way of life with you.

You are just an accuser doing his job.

Here is what I originally said:

Before Paul was even baptized his purpose in life was revealed to Anannias:
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
--He was to bear the name of Christ before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. He would bear the name of Christ, not teach Judaism, or the Law.

What does this have to do with human feelings and the OT? It has to do with God's purpose for Paul's life. Your deceitful answer had nothing to do with my post at all. I wasn't even addressing the subject of emotions.

That is your illogical argument, to say Paul would not teach anything about Judaism or the Old Testament Law.

And so you did. And, you attach your meaning of repentance to each and every one of them. Thus we come up with a Moriah-theology skewed interpretation of repentance that the Bible doesn't teach. When you insert your own meaning into the word, then all you have taught is your own idea, and not any scriptural truth at all.

The scriptures are plain and clear we must believe and repent.

To believe and obey means to believe and obey the Great Commission. That is what I was referring to. Will you believe and obey the Great Commission, the last and most important command that Christ left us with before he ascended back up into heaven, a command that is repeated in every gospel as well as the Book of Acts? Will you believe and obey that command?

We are to believe in Jesus and obey all his teachings.

If we showed you that God spoke to Moses in a burning bush, would you also claim that God should speak to you in a burning bush? That is what ou claim here and in John 14:23, that historical acts, those things that happened in history should also be applicable to you today. But it was Moses that was able to be God's instrument to bring about the Ten Plagues, not you.

John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

DHK, you want us to believe that was ONLY FOR THE APOSTLES! That is NONSENSE.

I answered your question from the Bible, and in detail. If you do not like the answer it is because you do not like answers from the Bible. Perhaps you do not have the Bible as your authority, but rather yourself as your own authority. I have told you on many occasions that you don't understand what faith is. Now I can say with some authority that you don't understand what faith is. For when I explain what faith is from the Bible you don't accept it.

What you say about me is not true.
You do not want to explain in what is your faith. If you explained in what is your faith, you would have to admit that sinning is wrong, that is why we were separated from God in the first place, and that it is the reason Christ suffered and died. You would have to admit that hearing this should cause you to feel bad about your sins, and cause you to repent! You would also have to acknowledge that you would STOP sinning.

 

[DHK]

Dear Brother DHK:

I have started a new thread: Is Baptism the New Circumcision?

I would appreciate and enjoy your comments and that of anyone else interested in this topic. Please be so kind as to read all the comments in order from first to last prior to commenting.

Wittenberger

I may join you there later. Your premise is Presbyterian in nature. It is a sneaky way to get infant baptism into one's theology when the Bible doesn't teach it. Face it. Baptism is always preceded by faith or belief. You will never find an instance of an infant being baptized or baptism taking place without one first having put their faith in Christ--that which an infant cannot do. Obviously it does not take the place of circumcision.

It destroys the symbolic nature of baptism as given in Romans 6:3,4. Why would anyone want to do that? There is a definite picture of what baptism stands for in that passage, and circumcision doesn't picture it. Thus it ends up to be a denial of the Biblical truth.

 

[33ad]

No where in the bible do you see anyone wait until they are at the age of reason

While you see entire households (including babies) be baptized and new adult believers

I was saved on the cross
I was saved when I was baptized
I am being saved with gods grace he gives me daily
I will be saved when our lord comes again

 

[DHK]

You speak of irrelevant things. You cannot even prove that the Gentiles had no idea of the Jews and the animal sacrifices. Then you still have to prove that Paul never explained the works of the law to the Gentiles even though he speaks of it to them! You would also have to discount the fact that there were Jews trying to get them to follow the works of the Old Testament as given to Moses.

Irrelevant?? Are you calling the Bible irrelevant? I didn't know that was your attitude toward the Scriptures--irrelevant.

I don't have to prove that the Gentiles had any idea of the Jewish religion and animal sacrifices. It isn't necessary. Paul came to preach to them Christ, not OT Law.

Paul refers to the Law and to circumcision, because the Judaizers came to them demanding that they be circumcized and keep the law as requirements for salvation. The matter was taken up in Acts 15:
Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

The same was being taught in Galatia, and was being refuted by Paul:
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
--He simply taught that one is justified by faith and faith alone, not by the works of the law, not by circumcision. That is all they had to know.

Now you are implying that the Gentiles knew the history of the Jews and did not need to be taught about it! You still have not explained how someone can preach Christ crucified without explaining that Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb of God, that only through the shedding of blood can sins be forgiven, and that Jesus died for our sins.

That is not what I said. You are twisting my words, misrepresenting what I said. This is habitual with you--a way of life.
I said it was not necessary for Paul to teach the history of the Jews to them and gave you some examples, not because they already knew, but because it wasn't necessary for them to know it. Paul preached unto them Christ and Christ crucified, as the Bible says. That is what they needed to know.

You are just an accuser doing his job.

I show you what you keep on doing. You need to stop. It is becoming habitual.

That is your illogical argument, to say Paul would not teach anything about Judaism or the Old Testament Law.

Your answers are all guess work--just your philosophy.
I quote to you the Word of God.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

The scriptures are plain and clear we must believe and repent.

Yes, but your definition of repent makes the gospel almost to the point of heresy. You have redefined the gospel with a false definition of repentance.

We are to believe in Jesus and obey all his teachings.

Good! When will your obedience to the Great Commission start.
Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
What country has God called you to? Saudi Arabia perhaps?
Are you ready to forsake all to follow Jesus?

John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

DHK, you want us to believe that was ONLY FOR THE APOSTLES! That is NONSENSE.

And the promise of entering the promise land with Joshua was given to you too wasn't it??

What you say about me is not true.
You do not want to explain in what is your faith. If you explained in what is your faith, you would have to admit that sinning is wrong, that is why we were separated from God in the first place, and that it is the reason Christ suffered and died. You would have to admit that hearing this should cause you to feel bad about your sins, and cause you to repent! You would also have to acknowledge that you would STOP sinning.

You teach a false gospel. Being sorry for your sins is not required for salvation.
You asked me what "faith" is. That is what I answered. Be more specific with your questions.

 

[Moriah]

The Gentiles in the New Testament knew of the Jewish customs, there is no reason to believe Gentiles had absolutely no knowledge of it. All Christians learn about Christ crucified, and that Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb of God. There were people that tried to make the Gentile Christians follow the Jewish law. Paul taught about not being justified by works of the law like circumcision and observance of special days.
I have proven my beliefs by scripture.
I have also proven my beliefs that we are to believe and obey.

 

[DHK]

The Gentiles in the New Testament knew of the Jewish customs, there is no reason to believe Gentiles had absolutely no knowledge of it. All Christians learn about Christ crucified, and that Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb of God. There were people that tried to make the Gentile Christians follow the Jewish law. Paul taught about not being justified by works of the law like circumcision and observance of special days.
I have proven my beliefs by scripture.
I have also proven my beliefs that we are to believe and obey.

What Scripture?
The Book of Moriah?

 

[Moriah]

What Scripture?
The Book of Moriah?

What is the matter? Do you not recognize the words of the Bible because your denomination did not teach what you hear me repeat from the Bible? Are you so indoctrinated you cannot see the words of God that are plainly written?

 

[DHK]

What is the matter? Do you not recognize the words of the Bible because your denomination did not teach what you hear me repeat from the Bible? Are you so indoctrinated you cannot see the words of God that are plainly written?

Here is the "Bible" you quoted:

The Gentiles in the New Testament knew of the Jewish customs, there is no reason to believe Gentiles had absolutely no knowledge of it. All Christians learn about Christ crucified, and that Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb of God. There were people that tried to make the Gentile Christians follow the Jewish law. Paul taught about not being justified by works of the law like circumcision and observance of special days.
I have proven my beliefs by scripture.
I have also proven my beliefs that we are to believe and obey.

Please give me chapter and verse.
I think it is all found in the Book of Moriah. :laugh:

 

[Moriah]

Here is the "Bible" you quoted:

Please give me chapter and verse.
I think it is all found in the Book of Moriah. :laugh:
[/SIZE]

Here are scriptures for you to think about. They are in the Holy Bible, where you can find the other things that I talk about. LOLLOLLOL

The Gentiles in the New Testament knew of the Jewish customs, there is no reason to believe Gentiles had absolutely no knowledge of it.
Acts 15:21 For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

Read in the next scripture what Peter says to a Gentile.

Acts 10:28 He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.

Peter told the Gentile he [the Gentile] was well aware that it is against the law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. I guess you want us to believe he was the only Gentile who figured out why he had no Jewish friends. LOLLOL


All Christians learn about Christ crucified, and that Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb of God.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

1 Corinthians 1:18 [ Christ the Wisdom and Power of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Galatians 5:11 Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

Read what Paul says to the Ephesians, he tells them about Jesus reconciling the Jews and the Gentiles to God. You want us to believe the Gentiles had no idea about this hostility! LOL

Ephesians 2:16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

Philippians 3:18 For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Read what Paul said to the Colossians, he explained to them about the written code, with its regulations. That is about the law of Moses! LOL

Colossians 2:14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.



There were people that tried to make the Gentile Christians follow the Jewish law. Paul taught about not being justified by works of the law like circumcision and observance of special days.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

Galatians 4:10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Galatians 5:11 Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

Read this next scripture how Paul quotes the Old Testament to those in Rome. LOL

Romans 9:33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

Hebrews 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.



I have proven my beliefs by scripture.

I have also proven my beliefs that we are to believe and obey.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.


Thanks for the big laugh this morning DHK. I have loved giving you these scriptures. I must tell you though, this is from the Holy Bible, and I had not helped in the writing of it, as you have thought.

 

[DHK]

Here are scriptures for you to think about. They are in the Holy Bible, where you can find the other things that I talk about. LOLLOLLOL

The Gentiles in the New Testament knew of the Jewish customs, there is no reason to believe Gentiles had absolutely no knowledge of it.
Acts 15:21 For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

The synagogues were places of instructions for the JEWS!

Read in the next scripture what Peter says to a Gentile.

Acts 10:28 He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.

Peter told the Gentile he [the Gentile] was well aware that it is against the law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. I guess you want us to believe he was the only Gentile who figured out why he had no Jewish friends. LOLLOL

God told Peter he was not to be prejudiced any longer against the Gentiles but was to fellowship with them; eat with them; and enter into their houses. It says nothing about teaching their religion.

All Christians learn about Christ crucified, and that Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb of God.

Paul's first and foremost purpose was to preach Christ and Christ crucified, not the sacrificial system of the Jews, that which is under consideration here.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

1 Corinthians 1:18 [ Christ the Wisdom and Power of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

These are the Scriptures I have been given you. Don't be deceitful. They show Paul preaching Christ; not the Law.

Galatians 5:11 Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

Paul specifically says he is not preaching the Law; for not preaching the Law he is being persecuted.

Read what Paul says to the Ephesians, he tells them about Jesus reconciling the Jews and the Gentiles to God. You want us to believe the Gentiles had no idea about this hostility! LOL

They were one in Christ. Why? Because the Jews left their Judaism and the Gentiles left their paganism.

Ephesians 2:16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

It shows that Judaism and Paganism can't be reconciled under Christ. We are one under Christ. Our former religions we have given up.

Philippians 3:18 For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.

Judaism is an enemy of the cross.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Peace comes through Christ, not through the Law.

Read what Paul said to the Colossians, he explained to them about the written code, with its regulations. That is about the law of Moses! LOL

Colossians 2:14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

The Law was nailed to the cross; peace comes through Christ, not through Judaism.

Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

It is Christ that saves, not the Law.

There were people that tried to make the Gentile Christians follow the Jewish law. Paul taught about not being justified by works of the law like circumcision and observance of special days.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

Galatians 4:10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Galatians 5:11 Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

Right, salvation is by faith alone, through Christ alone, by grace alone, without any works. That is the teaching here. It is not by works--any works.

Read this next scripture how Paul quotes the Old Testament to those in Rome. LOL

Romans 9:33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Christ, the chief cornerstone, is the only way; the Law is not.

Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

Grace increased. Salvation is by grace without the works of the law.

1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

Salvation is through Christ crucified, not through the law.

Hebrews 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

The better hope is Christ, in whom we can saved. Only through him can one be saved, not the Law.

I have proven my beliefs by scripture.

I have also proven my beliefs that we are to believe and obey.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Again you have an obscure definition of repent, therefore all these verses are rendered moot.

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

These verses speak to Christians and are applicable to Christians only. They are not applicable to any unsaved person.

Thanks for the big laugh this morning DHK. I have loved giving you these scriptures. I must tell you though, this is from the Holy Bible, and I had not helped in the writing of it, as you have thought.

You have not given one Scripture in its proper context that proves your point; not one.