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The Beginning of the Church of Jesus Christ

JD731

Well-Known Member
The cornerstone of the church was laid at the events of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The foundation was laid when Jesus breathed the Spirt into the 10 apostles on resurrection day in John 20. The building began to be framed when the Spirit was poured out from heaven on Israel in Acts 2 and was received by believers to dwell in their bodies, making them new creatures in Christ.. The purpose of the building was for a temple for the Holy Ghost in which he would abide. All members would be included in this building and collectively would be considered as one temple. Conversely, each individual member in this corporate temple would likewise have the presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.

You will need to see this in divine print so I will produce minimum proof here.

19 Then the same day at evening (resurrection day), being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
This is history. It is something that happened.

31 He (David) seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The operative command in this instruction to Israel is, "every one of you" because this is a national call to repentance and faith in Christ for salvation. The instruction for the nation to receive the promised gift of salvation is to be water baptized in Jesus name, having repented of killing Jesus. There could be and were individual Israelites saved but there could be no national salvation until every living one of them was saved. Why is that? Because God had always viewed Israel nationally as his firstborn son after the flesh. He is a corporate entity but he must be saved as one man. He must be born again and some day in the future he will be but it will be after the church is complete.

Ex 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, [even] thy firstborn.

This national call to repentance with water baptism as the token would remain in effect until the kingdom call to this family of Jacob was taken off the table because of their refusal to believe in Jesus as the Christ and God opened the door of faith to gentiles in Acts 10, in AD 40. Since there is no longer hope of a national salvation there is no longer a call for a national baptism in water and from this point going forward would receive the promise of the Spirit the same way as gentiles, by simply believing in Jesus Christ as he who died for them and was buried, and rose again from the dead. never to die again. God had formed a family from Jacob that he would save corporately but now he is forming a family, the church, that he is saving individually both of Jews and gentiles with a spiritual baptism into the body making them one family a corporate entity.
Here is proof:

The issue is after the Galatians and other gentiles were being saved, no national token involved;

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Consider the language carefully.
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we (Jews) shall be saved, even as they (gentiles).

How?

Without being baptized in water because there was no national entity for the Jews at this time since the gentiles were accepted in the Beloved.

Know this: the church of Jesus Christ was not an after thought of God. It was an eternal purpose. See here:

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

The first 12 verses of Ephesians 1 must be considered in the context of the chosen people, Israel. It outlines the original intent for these chosen people at this time in history. They were the strangers and foreigners who had been the object of God's election in eternity past, he having driven them out of their land as a nation in 722 BC and calling them "not my people" because of their continual unrepentant sin, yet promising that they would eventually be called the "sons of the living God." See Hosea 1. Since they are cut off from the Covenants of Israel they are considered to be gentiles and God will bring salvation to them as gentiles in this age. In Ephesians 3 Paul would say this is the wisdom of God, he having separated these 10 tribes and calling them gentiles for the purpose of keeping his promise to them in spite of many of them who will not believe.

Very few Jews from Jerusalem and Judaea have ever been saved but both are mentioned in Ephesians. Beginning in V 13 Paul includes these gentiles. People from this region were among the first in the church.

Here is the 13th verse: a transition.
13 In whom ye also (gentiles) trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


James and Peter and Jude and whoever wrote Hebrews and the epistles of John and Revelation were all addressed to these people. Paul wrote Ephesians and Colossians and Galatians and 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus, Philemon to them.

It seems like the Church of Jesus Christ is not understood by most people on this forum. Do you agree? Would anyone like to discuss it.

One other thing quickly. Peter said the beginning of the church of Jesus Christ was in Acts 2 when they were given the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ac 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Water Baptism as it Relates to the Trinitarian God and Israel, the son of God..

God the Father -
1 Cor 1:10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

A reference to the Red Sea baptism.

Jesus the son
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

God the Holy Spirit

Who was being addressed.....

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise (of the Spirit) is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off (strangers and foreigners), even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Three water baptisms for Israel,. one each by the three members of the trinity. There is something to learn here.

There is coming a baptism of fire for Israel to purify the nation and in the end every one of them that are left, though few in number, will be saved and without the possibility of ever sinning again. This is what the day of the Lord is all about. when the kingdom of Christ is inaugurated there will not be a singe unsaved person left on the earth. However, during the millennial reign millions will be born and they will need to be born again.

John the Baptist said this:
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
The garner in this case is the kingdom and the fires are the great tribulation.

This is taught in more than one place in the scriptures. One must learn to believe the words and note who is being spoken to. These baptisms, including the future baptism of fire, have nothing to do with the church of Jesus Christ and everything to do with the kingdom of Christ on the earth. Everything created is immersed in water and and then fire at some point, including the universe itself, it seems.

Psalms 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. note xre
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He (David) seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Gentlemen:

Let's look at at a prophet giving us the exact order of events that would happen after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Our Lord Jesus is the prophets and he gives us the order in a parable concerning his marriage to his bride. The church is the bride. Jesus gave this prophecy during his last week on earth before he was crucified but it was not about that week, it was about what followed. The time during the week was on a Wednesday according to our time and it was given to the Jews in the temple and would mark the last time he would be in the temple, a fact which has much significance. Here is what he said:

46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
Mt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

The next line is so very important in the prophecy because verse 7 literally took place in AD 70 when Titus, the Roman General fulfilled this prophecy exactly as given.

8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

This is when the church became a gentile bride in character because there was now no more national presence of Israel. They were scattered into the nations and were among those being invited to the marriage with those in V9.

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen. They are not chosen because they refuse the wedding garment, which is the righteousness of saints given by the Bridegroom.

I suggest studying these prophecies during this last week because they are a snapshot of what will happen during the next three days of the week or thousand year days as the Lord says he views them. one day as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
He is a corporate entity but he must be saved as one man
Three water baptisms for Israel
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Nothing I see that has been written thus far, has anything to do with the O.P. That's interesting, just how far off all of this is from what the Lord has Revealed about when He Founded His church, but everyone would have to understand what the Lord Taught that He and the Bible were saying that His church was, Organizationally, by His Divine Design and Origination, first.

"The Beginning of the Church of Jesus Christ"​

 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
John 20 :22 NASB
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

There is some unity of interpretation of this verse in the commentaries.

1) Barnes indicates the Jesus was illustrating what would happen at Pentecost.
2) Jameson Fausset Brown agrees it was a symbolic gesture
3) Matthew Poole indicates it was a promise of future support to encourage the Apostles.
4) Cambridge Bible agrees but adds a caveat, they obtain the Spirit by their action, they did something to receive it, rather than a passive action.
5) Many referred to Genesis 2:7 indicating the life giving Spirit comes from God. Jesus, God the Son, bestows everlasting life.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
John 20 :22 NASB
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

There is some unity of interpretation of this verse in the commentaries.

1) Barnes indicates the Jesus was illustrating what would happen at Pentecost.
2) Jameson Fausset Brown agrees it was a symbolic gesture
3) Matthew Poole indicates it was a promise of future support to encourage the Apostles.
4) Cambridge Bible agrees but adds a caveat, they obtain the Spirit by their action, they did something to receive it, rather than a passive action.
5) Many referred to Genesis 2:7 indicating the life giving Spirit comes from God. Jesus, God the Son, bestows everlasting life.
I don't know what the NASB says but JD731 says the testimony in the KJV is true and can be believed. He also understands that most of the Bible is written in such simple words that it is easy to understand what is stated but for some, if not most, especially Bible translators and those who are intelligent above their spirituality it is impossible to believe. This simple statement in Jn 20:22 is easy to understand but it is hard to believe.
 
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Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I don't know what the NASB says but JD731 says the testimony in the KJV is true and can be believed. He also understands that most of the Bible is written in such simple words that it is easy to understand what is stated but for some, if not most, especially Bible translators and those who are intelligent above their spirituality it is impossible to believe.
There is no difference in meaning between the NASB and KJV in this verse, John 20:22!
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
There is no difference in meaning between the NASB and KJV in this verse, John 20:22!
I take your word for it but I just don't know because I never read the NASB. If all Bibles say the same thing, I wonder why we don't all believe the same thing about the verse? You don't have to answer that because I don't want the thread to be about the Bible issue but about the beginning of the church.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. note xre
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
When did the church begin according to your understanding?
 

JD731

Well-Known Member

Nothing I see that has been written thus far, has anything to do with the O.P. That's interesting, just how far off all of this is from what the Lord has Revealed about when He Founded His church, but everyone would have to understand what the Lord Taught that He and the Bible were saying that His church was, Organizationally, by His Divine Design and Origination, first.

"The Beginning of the Church of Jesus Christ"​

I am interested in when Jesus founded his church and I see you are too. But you did not say when he founded it in your view.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
.
When did the church begin according to your understanding?
With Jesus choosing His disciples. Matthew 16:18, . . . upon this rock I will build my church; . . . .
That rock was in verse 17, . . . revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 6:45, It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I take your word for it but I just don't know because I never read the NASB. If all Bibles say the same thing, I wonder why we don't all believe the same thing about the verse? You don't have to answer that because I don't want the thread to be about the Bible issue but about the beginning of the church.
All the bibles do NOT say the same thing, as we have three slightly different compilations of what people believe is the word of God, the TR from which the KJV was translated, the MR from which the WEB was translated, and the CT from which the NASB was translated.

However, that is NOT the reason we have some many different understandings of what God's word actually says, as we all interpret them, with differing results.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
All the bibles do NOT say the same thing, as we have three slightly different compilations of what people believe is the word of God, the TR from which the KJV was translated, the MR from which the WEB was translated, and the CT from which the NASB was translated.

However, that is NOT the reason we have some many different understandings of what God's word actually says, as we all interpret them, with differing results.
Individual interpretations versus translation textual variant readings versus mere translation differences. Just knowing so doesn't explain differences at issue.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
There doesn't appear to be much interest in this topic. When do you teach the church began?
I do not believe the church stated with the actions described in John 20:22.

I believe the first member of the church was the thief on the cross, who became a member the day Jesus died. I believe no one was "born anew" before Jesus sacrificed His life on the cross. Whether the church began with the thief, or at Pentecost is debatable.

If anyone can show from scripture why I may be wrong, have at it.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Individual interpretations versus translation textual variant readings versus mere translation differences. Just knowing so doesn't explain differences at issue.
Differing interpretations does explain differing interpretations.
 
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