The Best Wine

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Daniel 1:8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

Was the king's wine non-alcoholic? Is that the reason that Daniel would not drink? I think not.

They would not drink of the wine because it was alcoholic. They knew God forbade the consumption of that fermented beverage in any amount

 

[Hope of Glory]

It might be noted that there are some fruits which ferment on the bush with no involvement by man whatsoever! Pyracantha berries will ferment on the bush. Birds get drunk on them. We used to have to pull dead birds out of the horse troughs in November and December because they would fall over trying to get a drink of water and drown, they were so drunk! They would fly into cars, pick fights with themselves in windows, etc. It was bizarre, and man never had to do anything but try to rescue the poor little things!

There are other fruits which ferment by themselves before they are even picked or fallen on the ground. Pyracantha berries are simply the most clear example I know of because of the birds.

Man does not cause fermentation. He has learned how to control it, however.

Helen,

Don't you realize that fermentation didn't exist before the flood? After the flood, the actinic rays made them ferment.

Seriously, though, there's a reason that it's illegal to hunt in vineyards in many places.

 

[Gina B]

Daniel 1:8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

Was the king's wine non-alcoholic? Is that the reason that Daniel would not drink? I think not.

They would not drink of the wine because it was alcoholic. They knew God forbade the consumption of that fermented beverage in any amount

Was the meat alcoholic too?

 

[gb93433]

Helen,

Don't you realize that fermentation didn't exist before the flood? After the flood, the actinic rays made them ferment.

Seriously, though, there's a reason that it's illegal to hunt in vineyards in many places.

What does before the flood have to do with today?

At one time there were no people so does that make you useless?

How do you know if it's illegal to go hunting in vineyards? Whne I was a kid my parents let hunters on their property a lot.

Don't you know that they go hunting for quail in vineyards?

 

[whatever]

Amen, DHK!

If alcoholic wine was ok to drink, why did Daniel, Shadrach, Meschach and Abednego not drink the wine that was offered?

The answer is simple... Alcoholic beverage is forbidden in the life of the christian lest it pervert his or her judgment.

The answer is simpler - they were in mourning because of the destruction of Jerusalem. In Daniel 10, because of the vision that he saw, Daniel went into mourning again and gave up meat and wine again. See verses 1-3.

 

[Jerome]

Was the meat alcoholic too?

May it have been pork?

 

[Jerome]

The answer is simpler - they were in mourning because of the destruction of Jerusalem. In Daniel 10, because of the vision that he saw, Daniel went into mourning again and gave up meat and wine again. See verses 1-3.

Daniel 1:8
But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.


Is one defiled by ending a fast?

 

[Ransom]

His Blood Spoke My Name's Factual Error #1:

Goid did not create alcohol. That was man's doings.

ROFL!

Every fall in Scandinavia, there is a danger of running into drunk moose on the roads, because they like to eat fermented apples that have dropped off the trees.

Sugar and yeast are naturally occurring, and when one meets the other, alcohol is the result. Man didn't invent fermentation, God did.

Factual Error #2:

If alcoholic wine was ok to drink, why did Daniel, Shadrach, Meschach and Abednego not drink the wine that was offered?

They also abstained from meat. Are you going to argue for vegetarianism as well, or is your morality only selective?

Daniel 1 is about living faithfully in an unfaithful culture, not abstaining from wine.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

They did not abstain from all meat, they abstained from the king's meat.

The king's food and wine was that which was forbidden by God for His people to drink.

Daniel 1 is about living faithfully in an unfaithful culture, not abstaining from wine.

Daniel 1 is about about living faithfully, and that should be done in this present world today as well. God's Word forbids alcohol consumption in the life of a Christain, we should be faithful and obedient to that command.

 

[Hope of Glory]

What does before the flood have to do with today?

That was said with toungue firmly planted in cheek, because I heard an IFB preacher when I was young trying to justify the wine=grape juice argument by saying that actinic rays didn't exist before the flood. He also tried to justify all sorts of other ridiculous things in scientific terms with no scientific basis.

How do you know if it's illegal to go hunting in vineyards? Whne I was a kid my parents let hunters on their property a lot.

Don't you know that they go hunting for quail in vineyards?

How do I know that? Because it was on my hunter's safety course test in Tennessee when I was a kid. I have no idea if the law is still in effect there or not, but the course pointed out that if we were hunting in another state to check their laws, because it was legal in some places and illegal in others.

And it was passed specifically because people went quail hunting in vineyards, and the birds were drunk and couldn't fly.

Here, it's illegal to shoot birds on the ground; they must be in flight. Except for the sandhill cranes. I don't know if that's a state law or just a law for this hunting zone, though.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

The birds more than likely were not drunk, but rather sick from eating rotting fruit.

 

[deacon jd]

They did not abstain from all meat, they abstained from the king's meat.

The king's food and wine was that which was forbidden by God for His people to drink.


Daniel 1 is about about living faithfully, and that should be done in this present world today as well. God's Word forbids alcohol consumption in the life of a Christain, we should be faithful and obedient to that command.

Do you have scripture to back up this view, or is it your interpration?

 

[DHK]

They also abstained from meat. Are you going to argue for vegetarianism as well, or is your morality only selective?

Daniel 1 is about living faithfully in an unfaithful culture, not abstaining from wine.

Yes they were vegetarians, and they had only water to drink.

Daniel 1:12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.

Daniel 1:12 `Try, I pray thee, thy servants, ten days; and they give to us of the vegetables, and we eat, and water, and we drink; (Youngs's Literal Translation)

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Do you have scripture to back up this view, or is it your interpration?

deacon jd, the fact that Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the king's meat or wine tels us that the food was forbidden.

Daniel was a man of God who followed the commands of God. God had said certain foods were bad. Apparently, the king, a pagan king, was eating that which God forbade.

The same with the wine. God allowed unfermented wine, i.e., wine that maketh the heart glad; he forbade fermented wine, we see this in Proverbs 20 and 23.

The kings wine was that which God forbid.

Meat, BTW, can mean meat as we know it, or it can mean food in general.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

 

[Hope of Glory]

The birds more than likely were not drunk, but rather sick from eating rotting fruit.

Sometimes, I wonder if you are being intentionally absurd to paint a bad picture of those who believe in abstaining from alcohol. The birds were probably not drunk? That's one of the most asinine things I've heard in a while!

How about some drunk bird stories?

110+ Drunk birds fly into windows

Drunk Birds Spark Flu Fears

More Drunk Birds (This one also has an interesting link to exploding toads...

Drunk Birds Give Airport Trouble

There's more if you want them.

But, then again, it's probably just a conspiracy by a bunch of people headed for hell who are trying to justify their alcoholism...

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Your closing statement tells it all.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Do any of you moderation advocates ever stop to think that God may be warning you to leave fermented grapes and other fermented stuff alone when you see these drunk moose and birds and bees?

 

[Charles Meadows]

SFIC,

Do any of you moderation advocates ever stop to think that God may be warning you to leave fermented grapes and other fermented stuff alone when you see these drunk moose and birds and bees?

Most of us are not moderation advocates.

I am absolutely abstinent. And I think Christians should avoid alcohol as well.

But what I am is a Bible-advocate.

I think that we must be true to the Bible no matter what our desires are. You and others here desire to lead a pure life (good for you) and you see alcohol as completely bad (me too).

But that does not mean that we can read our choices into the Bible - where for already explained reasons - people did drink wine in moderation.

The argument here (in my mind) is not whether we can drink in moderation but rather whether the Bible actually did forbid (in Jesus' time) and does forbid all alcohol. And in my judgment it does not, despite that fact that I would be fine with it if it did!

 

[Hope of Glory]

SFIC,

Do any of you moderation advocates ever stop to think that God may be warning you to leave fermented grapes and other fermented stuff alone when you see these drunk moose and birds and bees?

Most of us are not moderation advocates.

I am absolutely abstinent. And I think Christians should avoid alcohol as well.

But what I am is a Bible-advocate.

I think that we must be true to the Bible no matter what our desires are. You and others here desire to lead a pure life (good for you) and you see alcohol as completely bad (me too).

But that does not mean that we can read our choices into the Bible - where for already explained reasons - people did drink wine in moderation.

The argument here (in my mind) is not whether we can drink in moderation but rather whether the Bible actually did forbid (in Jesus' time) and does forbid all alcohol. And in my judgment it does not, despite that fact that I would be fine with it if it did!

Well, I saw no reason to do all that typing, so I just quoted you. Except, I do use alcohol for cooking occasionally, and in cough and cold medicine.

I would never condemn anyone (nor equate drunkeness) for having a glass of wine with dinner any more than I would condemn them for eating a hamburger and accusing them of gluttony.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Do any of you moderation advocates ever stop to think that God may be warning you to leave fermented grapes and other fermented stuff alone when you see these drunk moose and birds and bees?

I wanted to add, that yes, there's a warning in drunk moose and birds, but how does that has zero application to drinking wine in moderation, other than warning about drunkenness, as the Bible does.