The Bible and Soldiers, Soldiering, and Salvation

[Rippon]

Not correct.
And I don't volunteer personal information on the internet.
I also advise all others not to do so.
This is the standard advice from all police departments in North America.

Whatever you say Eddie. How's Ben,er ah,Mr.Scrivener doing these days?

 

[carpro]

John's admonition regarding violence was a serious imposition however, and not to be taken lightly, as it would impose upon their behavior and conduct as soldiers, and affect how they performed their duties in a significant way. John was well aware that Roman soldiers were at risk of harsh penalties for any disobedience of orders, and (as was standard for most armies) under threat of death for any form of desertion. So it is all the more significant that John the Baptist imposed restrictions upon them which could put them at personal risk in regard to their normal duties as soldiers.

John had in effect warned them that there might come a time when a soldier's duties, and obligations to God, could potentially come into conflict.

I don't believe John was speaking about a Roman soldier's war fighting duties when he advised them to harm no man, but to their police duties in connection with collecting taxes and keeping order.

But even so, such an admonition could cause a Roman soldier problems in what were considered his duties at the time.

 

[carpro]

Real vets reading this post will know that everything that I have written here is true.

In your opinion.

Most of the Vietnam veterans I know did not , and do not, suffer from ptsd or paranoia.

We're not the "victims" anti war liberals and pacifists make us out to be, and categorically reject the notion that we are.

 

[Arbo]

If you're willing to learn, I'm willing to teach...

Proud to be a teacher, are we?

Seriously, what are your qualifications to teach on this subject? Have you served in the military, or is it theory to you? It would seem foolish to allow oneself to be taught by another without knowing if they are qualified to do so.

 

[Nazaroo]

I'm willing to teach, but I'm not a teacher.

In any case, no qualifications could be offered or checked in an internet forum, without providing personal information, which I don't do.

I used the language of the prior poster who was attempting to derail the thread.

I'll be exploring the Holy Scriptures in this Bible study. But I'm obviously hoping for team efforts here.

None of us can advance in knowledge without examining the questions raised during study.

Already we have had a few important questions raised in regard to soldiers and the obligations re: the Gospel.

Lets examine them.

 

[Nazaroo]

The only instructions regarding specifically the soldiers life in the NT is a Prohibition from extortion, providing false witness, and not to complain abou their pay. That's about it. I don't see what you have to teach on it futher than that.

(1) Thinkingstuff here raised an important question as to our first example where soldiers are mentioned in the New Testament.

Are these really the only instructions specifically regarding soldiers? Perhaps they are, we shall see shortly.

But a better question would be,
Are these the only instructions which apply to soldiers?
Here I think we'd have to say no.

The first observation here, is that these few instructions aren't really even properly representative or exhaustive of what John the Baptist must have taught his listeners, soldiers included.

This cannot represent all that soldiers are responsible for, anymore than we could say that "Take no more than what is appointed to you" is all that tax-collectors were responsible to do, or "give one of your coats to him who has none" would be everything John the Baptist expected his other listeners to do.

It is obvious when we examine the context, that these are only short examples of the type of teaching that John the Baptist preached, which Luke records for us, to give us a taste of what preceded Jesus' public ministry. (Luke 3:10-14).

Luke's Gospel is naturally not only about soldiers, or even primarily about soldiers. Nor is it even about John the Baptist. All we are going to get is a brief sketch of both: some samples to give us the picture and guide us. These sketches will be like stick drawings compared to the full story.

Soldiers are perfectly familiar with this. When you hand in a report, you don't write every little thing that happened, especially if nothing unexpected happened. You just say, "patrolled perimeter, no encounters" or something brief. Luke similarly, gives a brief report giving the gist only.

It is reasonable to assume that John the Baptist intended the soldiers listening to understand that they also were expected to "give an extra cloak to someone who had none", and "not take more than their due" , just like other listeners.

That is, the words given to each group were not exclusive to them, nor did any specific instructions exempt them from other instructions given openly to the crowds and various parties.

The soldiers must have hung around to listen to other teachings from John the Baptist, equally applicable to them, as others did.

The soldiers weren't looking for loopholes, like lawyers, trying to minimize their responsibilities. They were honest men, seeking from John the Baptist the real goods. They wanted to know where they really stood, and what God expected of them.

They trusted John the Baptist to give them some guidance, and so can we.

 

[Nazaroo]

I don't believe John was speaking about a Roman soldier's war fighting duties when he advised them to harm no man, but to their police duties in connection with collecting taxes and keeping order.

But even so, such an admonition could cause a Roman soldier problems in what were considered his duties at the time.

(2) Carpro's observation here is spot on: the context is primarily as he said, because the soldiers were not just an occupying force, but were doing duty keeping the peace, and ensuring that commercial business continued to function, and taxes were collected for the empire.

They were effectively the police force for the region. Soldiers often do a similar duty today, in occupied areas, ensuring that business can function and food and other supplies are properly distributed.

Likewise, any restrictions or admonitions John the Baptist gave to the soldiers could impose upon their duty, whether as peace-keepers or as active fighting units.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Get to the point?

I know I was interested in letting you continue, and I also know that you said you weren't in a hurry. But after four days, you think you'd have gotten to your point by now. All you've said so far is, "Soldiers need to follow the same guidelines as everyone else" (para.) But that could be said about any group of people on the planet.

So, I ask you, please get to the point. If you have something of value to say, then please say it.

 

[Nazaroo]

I know I was interested in letting you continue, and I also know that you said you weren't in a hurry. But after four days, you think you'd have gotten to your point by now. All you've said so far is, "Soldiers need to follow the same guidelines as everyone else" (para.) But that could be said about any group of people on the planet.

So, I ask you, please get to the point. If you have something of value to say, then please say it.

Thanks Sapper Woody:

The kind of discussion I had in mind is going to take a month or two.

If you want to get an idea of how deep in depth I usually go for a serious subject, you can check out some of these threads, a few of which have run about 5 years, and have a few hundred or thousand entries:

Why John 8:1-11 is Authentic - started Feb 5th, 2006 - 324 posts, 17,000 views

Drug Dealing and the Bible: Started - Aug 29th, 2009 413 posts, 12,000 views

Stupid Gaffs in the UBS Greek Text - Haplography 181 posts, 5,500 views

Biblical Food Laws NOT obselete... 116 posts, 1,550 views

No Bloodguilt for killing a CAS worker 95 posts, 1,600 views