The Bible and Vegetarianism

[Marcia]

I've been vegetarian since 1977 -- yes, that's right! For 29 yrs. I have never missed meat even for one day. :smilewinkgrin:

However, I became a vegetarian long before I was a Christian. I was an animal rights activist and believed it was wrong to kill animals for food or fur. After I became a believer in late 1990, I continued to be vegetarian because I liked it and was used to it. And I don't want to eat meat. There is a lot of abuse and cruelty in modern factory farming and slaughterhouses (not to mention some very unsavory and unsanitary stuff that goes on).

I think the 1 Tim. passage you posted is about eating meat offered to idols, or perhaps meat forbidden under the OT laws, not vegetarianism as practiced today by most.

Being vegetarian is fine as long as you don't say everyone should do it. However, there are a lot of bible-based diets out there promulgated by Christians, such as the Hallelujah Diet. I think this is actually a vegan diet (no animal products at all), and George Malkmus claims all sorts of illnesses will be cured by going on this diet and, of course, buying and using his supplements. Don't get me started -- this kind of thing really riles me up.

 

[Chris L.]

With meat, there are problems such as hormone injected animals and taking in other foods in combination. (for example, drinking milk when you eat meat releases an unhealthy chemical into your body)

...Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk. Deut. 14:21

 

[Alcott]

There has to be a verse somewhere against eating liver.

I like liver, but now I hardly ever eat it, for the same reason I seldom eat eggs-- high cholestrol. I'm rather thankful that a certain cafeteria chain closed up their location in my town, as they had really good grilled liver with onions on a dinner platter (w/ 2 vegetables and bread).

But a few years ago it was at this cafeteria that I went to eat on a weeknight, and as I was carrying my tray with liver & onions out I saw 2 of our older single ladies from church, and they invited me to join them. I set my plate on the table, and one of them got a grimacing look on her face, and I noticed she was looking at my plate as she did so. It took maybe 6 seconds or more to figure it out-- she had had a liver transplant.

 

[chadnrachel]

That's crazy. T-Rex had HUGE teeth, designed for tearing, not popping open a watermelon.

So you believe that there was shedding of blood in the Garden of Eden? Think abut it.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

I have no problem with someone who is a vegetarian because they think it helps their own health or they just prefer not to eat meat, just don’t try to convert me or tell me the bible says I can’t eat meat. That is exactly what the passage quoted from I Timothy is talking about.

I have a problem with one thing Gina said

I believe that the original intention was for man to receive complete nourishment from non-living sources,

The thing is that plants are alive. If we got all our nourishment from non-living sources we would be restricted to eating minerals. That potato or cabbage head is just as much alive at that rabbit or deer. It might not be as cute and cuddly, but it is a living organism. The question is not whether we will eat living things but where we draw the line. I know vegetarians that eat fish and say that doesn’t count. I know others who say, “nothing with a face.” What about dairy products that come from animals but do not kill them? Does that count? When you eat a carrot you dig up the entire plant but when you pick an apple you leave the tree alone. Which is more “humane.”

I also don’t buy into the fear of steroid injected or other chemicals added to our groceries. If you are worried about all that then raise your own. Wild animals (and plants) always taste better to me but modern agricultural science has yielded huge increases in the productivity of farming operations (animal and vegetable). Without these increases it would be impossible to maintain the current world population with the few acres of land still cultivated.

The bottom line is that our existence is dependent upon the sacrifice of other living things. I am afraid that in our modern world we have separated ourselves from the food sources so much that people don’t realize that anymore. I believe every child should be educated and involved in where their food comes from and that mean participating in the butchering and preparation of meats as well as the cultivation and harvesting of fruits and vegetables.

Deut 12:15 Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.

Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

Gen 27:3 Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison

 

[webdog]

So you believe that there was shedding of blood in the Garden of Eden? Think abut it.

I don't know...but God is omnscient, and I beleive the T-Rex was designed with this (the fall) in mind. Isaiah 25:6 states the Lord of Host will serve us a feast in the New Heaven and Earth that consists of the finest meat. Where will this meat come from?

 

[chadnrachel]

I don't know...but God is omnscient, and I beleive the T-Rex was designed with this (the fall) in mind. Isaiah 25:6 states the Lord of Host will serve us a feast in the New Heaven and Earth that consists of the finest meat. Where will this meat come from?

God is omniscient. That's why the symbolism of having to shed blood to "cover" man's sin was used in the Garden of Eden. It was symbolic because it was the first time it had ever happened in the Garden. All the animals were herbivores. That was how God meant for it to be...as he does for the final kingdom (lions with lambs).

So, all I was saying is that all carnivores (lions, tigers, bear...oh my...and dinosaurs were originally created to eat plants...it was because of man's sin, that they began to turn on each other).

Now, as to what man was meant to do...I don't think that there is a rule. I think God did design us (in his "omniscience") to be Omnivores (eat both plants & animals). This is evident in our teeth. Our molars resemble the teeth of herbivores (check out a horse's or cow's mouth sometime ), and our front teeth resemble those of carnivores. But, either way, I believe God allows man to eat what he wants...the sin is when we become unhealthy eating whatever we eat (i.e., chocolate, sugar, high carbs...). We destroy our physical body much like we do when we do drugs or drink.

I Cor. 6: 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So, is a person living healthy as a vegetarian (glorifying their body)? Is a person living healthy as an omnivore (glorifying their body)? I think that's a personal decision not a religious one.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

Webdog, now I love meat, and by meat I mean the charred flesh of an animal, but every time you read the word meat in the Bible it does not mean animal flesh. Sometimes it simply refers to food. Looking specifically at Is 25:6 the KJV contains the phrase, “fat things full of marrow” which would certainly seem to indicate animal flesh, but looking at the Hebrew words used here (shemen machah) it could simply refer to foods cooked in oil. I am not saying that it could not mean meat like we eat today, but if the vegans of the world want to argue about it Is 25:6 is not going to give you the evidence you need.

As far as the T-Rex thing I would have to agree with chadnrachel and others. I don’t believe there was any shedding of blood before the fall. I believe T Rex and other carnivore dinosaurs were among those giants that walked the earth in Gen 6:4 and they were not carnivores until after the fall.

 

[Gina B]

I have no problem with someone who is a vegetarian because they think it helps their own health or they just prefer not to eat meat, just don’t try to convert me or tell me the bible says I can’t eat meat. That is exactly what the passage quoted from I Timothy is talking about.

I have a problem with one thing Gina said



The thing is that plants are alive. If we got all our nourishment from non-living sources we would be restricted to eating minerals. That potato or cabbage head is just as much alive at that rabbit or deer. It might not be as cute and cuddly, but it is a living organism. The question is not whether we will eat living things but where we draw the line. I know vegetarians that eat fish and say that doesn’t count. I know others who say, “nothing with a face.” What about dairy products that come from animals but do not kill them? Does that count? When you eat a carrot you dig up the entire plant but when you pick an apple you leave the tree alone. Which is more “humane.”

I also don’t buy into the fear of steroid injected or other chemicals added to our groceries. If you are worried about all that then raise your own. Wild animals (and plants) always taste better to me but modern agricultural science has yielded huge increases in the productivity of farming operations (animal and vegetable). Without these increases it would be impossible to maintain the current world population with the few acres of land still cultivated.

The bottom line is that our existence is dependent upon the sacrifice of other living things. I am afraid that in our modern world we have separated ourselves from the food sources so much that people don’t realize that anymore. I believe every child should be educated and involved in where their food comes from and that mean participating in the butchering and preparation of meats as well as the cultivation and harvesting of fruits and vegetables.

That's sort of funny, because when I posted "living things", I wondered if someone would joke about it!

So let me change the wording. "things that breathe and have blood". :flower:
Unless you are an evolutionist, a cabbage or a carrot is not "just as alive" as an animal.

As far as steroid injected and hormone laden products, I speak from both knowledge and experience. I lived in an area where these products were, and many children were experiencing a VERY early onset of puberty.

I changed our family's diet. We now buy organic milk, hormone-free chicken, and beef from grain-fed cattle or not at all, with an occasional exception.
It stopped the early development with two of my girls in its tracks. The alternative was going to be medication from their doctor.

BTW, cows are not carnivores, but look into practices of non-organic farms and you'll often find they are turned into them. EW Not natural, not food, and most likely not within the guidelines of caring for animals the way God would have us do. We may be allowed to eat them, but we're also required to treat them properly. That would include proper feeding AND proper methods of slaughtering. (slaughtering an animal the wrong way also releases stuff you don't want in the food you will consume)

Modern farming may be increasing the look and quantity of fruits and veggies, but I believe they are also wrong in their methods. (often not rotating crops, etc.) My main concern is with genetically modified foods. In this case, there is also the possibility of health concerns for those who consume such products. They can/may contain toxins and altered genes with the potential to damage your body and mind.

I completely agree with the idea that children should be familiar with food and where it comes from. It gives them knowledge, respect, and an appreciation for what they put into their bodies and for our relationship with our earth and nature's cycles. There is far too much separation going on between humans and their environment. We need to be closer to the basics instead of further away.

 

[Marcia]

The book that got me to stop eating meat was called Eating for Life. I don't even know if it's available anymore, but the points it made about how our body digests vegetables and grains better than meat, and the abuse in raising and killing animals for food was enough for me. I was an animal rights activist at the time, and thought that eating meat made me a hypocrite.

Man's intestines are very long and more suited for grains and veggies because the meat gets caught in there and rots. Carnivores have very short intestines; herbivores have longer ones. So from the point of health, a Christian can be vegetarian.

In Jesus' day, there was not the abuse of factory farming, injecting of hormones and antibiotics into animals, etc. So from just a point of view that one would not want to participate in this type of abuse, I can see a Christian being a vegetarian.

So either for health reasons or for concern for animals (and the environment), a Christian has good reason to not eat meat. However, a Christian should not say that the biblical diet is to not eat meat (as in the Hallelujah Diet)

You all seem not to be aware of all the Bible-based diets out there, some of them endorsed by very popular Christian leaders. These are books that purport to say there is a biblical diet for Christians. I know one of them is to eat according to the OT laws. I heard the guy who started this on a Christian radio show several yrs ago, and I've met people who believe him.

 

[donnA]

So you believe that there was shedding of blood in the Garden of Eden? Think abut it.

have you got scripture for anything.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Hey, how about this?
My granddaddy at 92 yrs, his name is Tilmon Perdue, a living breathing soul, trusted Christ in the late 60's, he is as strong as an ox, can move better than a 50 yr old and has DEFIED all the rules. He has eaten everything under the sun that we all say is bad for us......during the war WW II he carried a lard sandwitch to work everyday, and he was workin' today. He says, "If I knew I was gonna live this long I would have taken better care of my body".

Thanks Bartimaeus/Ky/Look Away Dixieland!

 

[Bartimaeus]

One more note about my hero, my granddad, He never used hollow point 22 shells to kill his squirrels that they as a family ate later.......fried. The reason is he always shot his squirrels in the head and a hollow point shell messed up the brains and they were always ate when the heads were fried and the skulls popped open at the table. I am not making this up, it is as true as the Lord knows it to be.

Outta here Bartimaeus/ Look away!

 

[LeBuick]

during the war WW II he carried a lard sandwitch to work everyday, and he was workin' today. !

I bet it kept him fairly regular and cut the time in the old outhouse waaaaay down

 

[Christian]

Timothy said:
(1Ti 4:1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
(1Ti 4:2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
(1Ti 4:3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received, with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
(1Ti 4:4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
(1Ti 4:5) For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Here Paul is warning Timothy that in their not to distant future the apostasy within the Lords church will begin. Some think this is speaking of the Catholic (which means universal) church because they ate fish on Friday and it was forbidden for the pope to marry, etc. However that is really not the case. It is speaking of the Gnostic's some of which would be false teachers in the early church. Some of these teachings did carry over into the apostatized church becoming what is known as the catholic church.

While the Israelites could only eat the things commanded under their law (the Law God gave unto Moses) we who are under a new covenant with Christ can eat as you wish (Acts 10:9-15) with possibly minnimal (Acts 15:20) exceptions.

 

[chadnrachel]

Yes...Thanks for asking.

 

[Deacon]

I like liver, but now I hardly ever eat it, for the same reason I seldom eat eggs-- high cholestrol.

Well, Alcott and I finally see eye-to-eye on something :love2:

I haven't had a good plate of liver 'n onions for years but I crave it after hearing mention of it.

Personally I'm a second hand vegetarian. I only eat animals that were vegetarians. :laugh:


Statistics don't show that vegetarians have longer lives but it sure seems that way.
I went vegan for a year about a decade ago for health reasons.
It seemed like forever!
It lowered my cholesterol about 4%. I'm on Zocor now. ...and eat meat!!!

I'm reading a book on church history that mentions a disciple of Justin Martyr by the name of TATIAN.
He was an early Christian apologist living around a.d. 110-172.

Irenaeus mentions that Tatian avoided meats and wine and may have founded a sect called the Encratites, who not only avoided these but were celibate.

Rob

 

[LeBuick]

Irenaeus mentions that Tatian avoided meats and wine and may have founded a sect called the Encratites, who not only avoided these but were celibate.

Rob

Bummer, must of been tough to recruit new members...

Statistics don't show that vegetarians have longer lives but it sure seems that way.

This didn't include the cow I just ate...