The Bible as 'sacrament'?

“ambit” - had to look that one up! I do not normally read either RCC or Orthodox writers. Nor do I generally read those who hold to higher critical theory regarding the origin of Scripture (Graf-Wellhausen). Probably a slight weakness on my part, but then I only have so many hours in the day. I do, however, read a variety of protestant reformed theologians who hold divergent positions on many issues. When a topic of interest arises, I often read all I can find on a subject, sometimes including pagans and agnostics, depending on the subject. Was reminded the other day that I have not been keeping up real well with current trends in psychotherapy either. Again, can only do so much.

 

I read more ante-nicene that post. Not sure I could put a time stamp on a "deviation" point, but would more likely evaluate issues on a subject by subject basis. Nor is it a matter of "worthiness". It is simply a matter of available time and the best use of that time. I probably waste 4-5 hours a week watching meaningless drivel on the “telly”. But, it is relaxing to kick my brain into neutral and be mesmerized by a movie or program that is designed to appeal to about the 5th grade level! I guess I could read the post-nicenes, just haven’t referred to them much. Nor would I want to suggest that I spend a great deal of time reading the antes either. More commonly my reading of them is motivated by desire to see what they say about a particular subject than to just read them for leisure or even discipline. Have never read all of “City of God” but have read sections. I am generally pretty set against things that I believe reek with allegorism. The only limitation there is the imagination of the interpreter. That is why I feel so strongly about CLGH. Do not generally spend a great deal of time reading those who do not hold that Scripture is authoritative. It only takes one or two, "I know that the Bible says this, but..." to turn me off to a particular writer. I can get back into them, but it takes a focused effort. If on the other hand it is relating to a subject that has grabbed my attention, I am captivated by the debate and sometimes become almost consumed by the issue. Amil, postmil vss premil has been one of those.

 

Would also add that I am greatly enjoying this discussion! When you mentioned the legal briefs I had a better understanding of why. Did you know that both C.I. Scofield and Philip Mauro (dispy and strong anti-dispy of about the same time period) were both former attorneys? I find your depth of thought particularly stimulating!

 

I think this quote makes a very important point to the thread. If truth is what matters most we need not fear scrutiny. We must be willing to put anything we believe to a scriptural test, and not shelter any belief in any way. After all, it's God's Truth, not ours. Otherwise, IMO, we open ourselves up for Satan to sift us as wheat. It's not always easy to accept being wrong about a belief, especially when we are heavily vested in it, but I've also found that the truth has always more than made up for it, it's always better than what I let go - it refines, bolsters, and adds to the rock solid foundation Holy Scripture provides. Any doctrine or truth, worth its salt, will withstand any scriptural test.

My attitude is I want the Truth - I don't care what it is. Had I come to that place many years ago, I could have avoided a great deal of pain and suffering.

 

Without addressing that point, Matt, and keeping it short, this thread has stimulated some thoughts and I would very much appreciate knowing (without debating) whether you and the other good thinkers here agree or disagree on a few personal points:

1. The Bible is God's Word, reveals many infallible Truths that will never pass away, and has the Almighty's full authority behind it. In it, there is much Truth which is not clear, and much which is hidden, therefore the best of us see through a glass darkly. God is pleased to have it that way.

2. Having navigated the interpretation waters, I landed on Simplicity Island - the common sense of LGHC or Literal, Grammatical, Historical, Contextual - where it will apply from Genesis to Revelation.

3. It is necessary to be constantly discerning and prayerful with scripture, always testing, discarding, and refining.

4. Bibliolatry is possible, but pride is more likely to get you than anything else. In a different sense, pride in one's intelligence often leads to unnecessary, and fruitless, allegory.

5. Today, there are more outstanding resources available to the average Christian than there were to the giants of the faith. At the same time, walking into a Christian bookstore is a very dangerous thing, unless you have a full tank of discernment and a very sharp sword. Contemporary Christian authors worth reading, like cover corners in football, are few and far between.

6. There isn't enough time to explore just the things of God. I've limited outside interests to topics that apply to the present-day Christian, things like ancient Hebrew culture and the Hegelian Dialectic. I haven't read a novel, save the first 5 or 6 Left Behind series, in a long time though I probably should go out and buy a handful of Grisham's books and start reading. Either I'm overdoing it or responding to a sense of urgency, sometimes I'm not sure which. I wonder how you all feel about it.

 

Ivey Leaguer, I agree with all your points. I think #2 is especially important and many need to be aware of #5. I rarely go to Christian bookstores because much of the materials there are not doctrinally sound or they are superficial. I think at least the online Christian bookstores now get there books from secular companies and this is why you can often find New Age or cultic books there.

 

Good point, I like CBD but I know their #1 is selling books. Can't say for sure about cultic but in the Atlanta area it's not hard to find some New Age in the Christian bookstores, though it's much more subtle, I guess. I've never seen a lot of hardcore New Age, I'll look next time I'm in Borders.

With many Christian bookstores, especially the chains, I think it's sad but fair to say there's more erroneous or bad material available now than good, scriptural teaching.

 

Matt,

Here is an audio (Windows Media) file of R.C.Sproul discussing several of the questions you raise in this thread - SS, SF, authority of scripture, authority of church, etc., etc..

Having read your posts, I think R.C. would be a tremendous resource for you. The program is about 30 minutes but the teaching part is about 20 uninterrupted minutes.

I pray this information will bless you .

R.C.Sproul - The Standard of Truth

 

Until several months ago, there were hardcore New Age books on the online CBD store, including Matthew Fox, Gerald Jampolsky, and others. A concerted effort by some Christians resulted in these books suddenly being removed. I wrote a review of one of Fox's books to get their attention; 3 weeks later, all of Fox's books were gone. As far as I know, these books are not on the site now.

 

Good work. God Bless You All.

 

Matt, the Sproul audios are classroom lectures, not sermons, so it's too much to summarise. Sorry. Sproul has books, tapes and other materials on this subject available HERE, but it's worth several pounds (or euro?) for some used speakers to get the free audio (it'll be gone in a week or two), or you can buy the "Hath God Said" series.

 

Matt,

Started a response to this earlier in the week. Other things have shifted my focus. Will finish and post asap.