The Bible's Arminian Sequence for salvation

Hello KJ.

That is love. The decision to do good is love love is not a funny feeling.

He never did hate me I was chosen in Him before the creation of the world. His intention to me and mine has always been love. Romans 9:13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

God is Sovereign.

john.

 

John...God deciding who will love Him is not "doing good". It is psychotic. People love of their own free will and that's what God wants from us. Note that it takes the Holy Spirit to open sinful man's eyes to that truth but then God leaves it to us to decide.

Newsflash my friend...you ain't Jacob. God did hate you before you were saved because you were wicked. Are you saying you weren't wicked? If you admit you are, then God hated you, no?

Now...this is beyond my understanding that God could hate men and then love them but that is Scriptural so rather than call Him unstable I will "lean not to my own understanding" but trust what God says. He is sovereign.

Yes God is sovereign. You seem to think CHRISTIANS that believe as I do don't think that. Well...you are wrong. It is not our fault that your human mind cannot comprehend God's sovereignty the way we do.

I have a question and a simple yes or no will do: does Calvinism promote elitism? Does it make it's adherents egotistical lugs who care more about winning arguments than about people's souls? My answer is yes. Yours will be too...if you are honest.

 

Hello KJ.

Semi-Pelganianism. Pelagianism and it's pretender is the religion of mankind. Look at their religionists beavering away for the priveledge of a fiercer Hell. Only Christianity has it's adherents do nothing for salvation or to keep salvation.

And again! Does He tell everyone? Yes or no?

There and I thought I was part of Israel! Oh yes I am part of Israel! Jacob He loved Esau He hated didn't He? Don't you believe that the Jacob there is Israel? Some do.
God did hate me did He? Then why, pray tell, did He send His Son for me? To the praise of His glorious grace! Could it have been that He loved me that He should care? I find your logic illogical Captain. 1JN 4:19 We love because he first loved us.

And away you go to tilt at a windmill of your own imagination. (Well it's different from saying strawman!)

No He is Sovereign.

No He is Sovereign.

You do not. You decide nothing. PR 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
God is Sovereign. Romans 9.

No I am right. God is Sovereign. Romans 9.

No His Sovereignty.
Never said it was did I. I thought you kept calling me because I kept saying it's not our fault? Now you are calling me because I question it is you at fault? What's it to be?

Does He tell everyman the gospel?

1 : the choice part or segment : No.
as a : a segment or group regarded as socially superior No.
b : highly trained soldiers No.
c : a minority group or stratum that exerts influence, authority, or decisive power No. PR 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
2 : a size of typewriter type providing 12 characters to the linear inch and 6 lines to the vertical inch No.

does Calvinism promote elitism? No.

I have no concern for peoples souls I have in winning arguments. I can win arguments I can never win souls!
I contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. I do not know the result of any argument until the end but I recognise the end. When I recognise a conclusion I say it. One day I will say you win but you will have to win for that.

Egotistical lugs is a tautology. Lugs would have done!
Is that a point? You yourself are not competitive?

Me? Yes. Christ died for my sins.

john.

 

No...I just called you a lug. I am very competitive.

Well...you put up a lot of nonsense but I will address a few of your points. God did hate you, He said so Himself. "God hates the wicked"...Calvinists like to quote. Well...you were a lost sinner therefore you were wicked.

As for my last question...I don't see where you got "winning souls" from? I said "you care more about winning arguments than people's souls". Maybe I should have spelled it out more clearly for you. "you care more about winning arguments than you care about the state of lost people's souls". Sorry for assuming you were intelligent enough to know what I meant. And your answer "yes" to my question is tragic. You do not have the love of Christ.

Also...why do you say "No...He is Sovereign"? That is what I said...no need to capitalize the word. That is just legalism. And you did that to avoid the issue I brought up. Good tactic...avoid the issue...correct the spelling. lol

When He mentioned Jacob and Esau He was talking about two people, no? According to Calvinists He was. So no, you ain't Jacob.

I stand by what I said. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and man decides to repent or not. Scripture teaches such.

 

Hello KJ.

You did not I am not a plural but I accept it.

You cry libel though!

You are too kind.

You err badly in thinking I was a lost sinner but that I would be found. Before the creation I was His. Always my sins were laid on Him. I was never hated. How about some scripture instead of your own opinion?

I do.

Yes I do. Faith comes by hearing and if my preaching is wrong then false disciples appear. My duty is to get the message right and God looks after the souls. I call the sheep only I can give no comfort to the reprobate.

No apology is needed I should have told you. Keep it simple for me please.

It is respect and proper English I believe not legalism. To me to leave off the capital is blasphemous as it reduces respect.

It is not me that tries to do anything but answer your points. You have forgotten that you just said I am stupid now you berate me for being clever, which is it and why did you not make the point again. What was the point where I was crafty?

Sure was.

No?

But that is not the question is it? Does He tell all men the gospel or not?

john.

 

Johnny...I said lugs so as to not hurt your feelings. Truthfully...you were included in that.

Yes it is legalism to say you have to capitalize the word sovereign. Son should be capitalized...sovereign no.

As for debating with you...I don't need the heart attack thank you. As for you being my brother...that's questionable. You yourself admitted that you don't love. Christ commands you too.

 

"But that is not the question is it? Does He tell all men the gospel or not?"

He can. He had angels do it at Jesus' birth did He not? He'd rather "His people" had a little love and concern for the souls of the lost...but we already know you don't. You said so yourself.

 

Hello KJ.

He can. He had angels do it at Jesus' birth did He not? He'd rather "His people" had a little love and concern for the souls of the lost...but we already know you don't. You said so yourself.

That's very interesting. Now Does He tell all men the gospel or not?" Please.

Yea sure you speak for God. Love your neighbour as yourself.

Does He tell all men the gospel or not?" Please.

john.

 

Does He tell all men the gospel or not?"

Doesn't matter. You don't want all men to hear the gospel.

 

But you do. Are you more compassionate than God?

 

Hello Bob.

What is He drawing them with if it is not His word?
What is He drawing them to if they never heard of Jesus?

john.

 

John...an angel could share the gospel with someone just as much as a human could. God is sovereign (purposely left uncapitalized just for you) and can do that if He so wishes.

"What is He drawing them with if it is not His word?
What is He drawing them to if they never heard of Jesus?"

Don't you know? The Holy Spirit draws them (changes their hearts) before they ever hear His Word or (hear of Jesus) since they are saved from before the foundation of the world.

 

With all due respects, KJ. No one is saved from before the foundation of the world.
The elect were foreknown and chosen unto salvation (Romans 8:29-30) and their names written in the Lamb's book of Life (Rev. 17:8)before the foundation of the world, but, ALL MEN are born in enmity with God (Rom. 8:7;Eph. 2:15-16) in this plane called time.

While in his mind and as far as He is concerned being the God who inhabits eternity, ALL who are
in Christ Jesus are already seated in heavenly places with Him, the elect, a natural born enemy of God, dead in sins and trespasses, conceived in sin from the womb just like the unelect, must FIRST be brought to life by the Savior's voice (not the preacher's voice) at the Redeemer's own time (not the missionary preacher's time reckoned by his getting to a certain place to preach the gospel).

I understand your saying that all the elect are born saved when we look at the fact that no one who is elect and a child of God will ever be eternally lost whether or not a preacher gets
to his place of residence and thus afford him a chance to respond to the gospel.

Therein is the rub with the Arminian and Calvinist Christs.

They preach Him as Savior, but NOT YET. Savior is His title but He is not one's savior until one accepts Him as personal Savior, or until one responds to the gospel call.

The New Testament church preached Him as Savior, IN FACT and IN DEED, of His people. He saved them from their sins.

 

Hi pinoybaptist...I would agree. Noone is saved from before the foundation of the world. I was saying that out of sarcasm because someobody has been arguing with me that they have been.

I believe everyone who has ever been born has had their name in the Book of Life. Those who don't get saved, have their names wiped out. I think that is why Jesus mentions Christians in Revelation...that their names would not be blotted out of the Book of Life.

Again, I am saying what I believe. I don't know if it's true...I am not a master theologian and though I used to want to be, I don't want to now. I see what it does to people.

 

Hello KJ.

God can do whatever He likes? I do not need to know this. The question was not what God can or can't do the question is 'did God tell everyone'? Yes or no?

Well KJ, did He tell everyone about the gospel?

john.

 

Yes. He gave us His Word...to take into ALL the world. I don't know why you care to ask...you already stated you don't love...so why would you care to take the gospel down the street nevermind into ALL the world?

My question to you: Does God have to tell YOU everytime He tells someone about the gospel? Does He report to you?

 

Hello KJ.

Show us where KJ I'd like to join the discussion.

Why don't you ever use scripture? Your opinion is of no value unless scripture is used. No one's name is in the book but those God has chosen, the elect.

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Then why do you think you can teach anything?

That does not answer the question does it? If you don't want to then don't.

In asking the question you prove your statement I am not a master theologian...

john.

 

"Why don't you ever use scripture? Your opinion is of no value unless scripture is used. No one's name is in the book but those God has chosen, the elect."

Right there you are using YOUR opinion. You didn't give a Scripture verse about "the book". If you are right, why would He say "and their names will not be blotted out..."? Would be kinda redundant, no?

I don't see a Scripture verse there Johnny, telling me that I have to use Scripture all the time and can't say anything apart from Scripture. I HAVE to use Scripture? I thought we were allowed to discuss ideas, etc. too. So far you haven't used much Scripture. Show me the Scripture that tells you you don't have to love...because yes...you did say that. I am also not going to go looking for it...you know you said it and God knows you said it. That is all that matters.

One doesn't have to be a master theologian to teach anything. We learn from little children...at least most humans do.

What do you mean I didn't answer the question? I said "Yes"...do you understand what the word means? I have to ask because you don't know what the command to love means...you yourself claimed you don't love.

"In asking the question you prove your statement I am not a master theologian..."

Your point is??? I don't take pride in knowing "theology" as I can get that wrong. I am happy knowing that Jesus loves me. And that my friend...I don't have wrong. So...if you have any more personal digs to give then go for it. Fire away. I have you figured out...