The Biblical Basis of 10 Catholic Distinctives

[Deadworm]

I am an evangelical Methodist who grew up Pentecostal. But for 12 years I was a Theology Professor at a Catholic university. Readers who have followed my critical posts in the Perpetual Virginity thread may be surprised by my positive perspective on Catholic spirituality. I have even won a lawsuit against Catholics! Despite this, I believe there is no Christian spirituality superior to Catholic spirituality at its best and I prefer to ponder the relevance of the biblical basis for this spirituality to my own Christian journey. Sadly, many evangelicals assess Catholic spirituality only on the basis of its worst exemplars and know nothing of how informed Catholics might support their distinctives on biblical grounds. So in this thread I will take a sympathetic look at the biblical basis for 10 Catholic distinctives. In the interests of coherent and focused discussion, I only ask posters to confine their comments to the distinctive under currrent discussion. In my next planned post I will begin with the biblical basis for the Catholic use of Holy Water.

This thread will sequentially discuss the biblical underpinnings of these 10 Catholic distinctives:
(1) Holy Water
(2) Holy Relics
(3) Prayer to Saints
(4) Catholic Mariology
(5) Priestly Confession and Absolution
(6) Infant Baptism
(7) Transubstantiation/ Real Presence
(8) Purgatory
(9) Catholic Doctrine of Justification
(10) Catholic View of Scripture and Tradition

 

[Deadworm]

(1) THE BIBLICAL INSPIRATION FOR THE USE OF HOLY WATER:

The underlying principles for Catholic sprinkling with Holy Water are the various uses of sacred water in God's Word to bless, purify, heal, or establish innocence. The Apostolic Constitutions (c. 400 AD) trace the priestly use of Holy Water to the Apostle Matthew and thus attests the great antiquity of the Church's use of Holy Water. The first biblical reference to "Holy Water" can be found in Num. 5:16-19. Drinking it will exonorate the innocent and bring curse on the guilty. On certain occasions, bathing in ritual water can purify someone and refusing to use this water retains guilt (e. g. Lev. 17:15-16). Blessed water can unleash healing power. Naaman reluctantly obeys Elisha's command to immerse himself 7 times in the Jordan to heal his leprosy (2 Kings 5:10, 14). In the NT the Pool of Bethzatha has healing efficacy when it is stirred up (John 5:7). Jesus recognizes the healing power of blessed water by using spittle to heal the blind and the dead (John 9:6-7). But the blind man in John 9:6-7 also needs to wash in the blessed waters of the Pool of Siloam to compete his healing.

My next planned post will testify to modern examples of the various types of spiritual power of holy water.

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[Deadworm]

(1a) Water must be formally blessed in a priestly ritual before it becomes "Holy Water." Here are just 2 examples of the power of the Holy Spirit uniquely working through a priest who sprinkeles Holy Water:

(I) A few years ago, I received a call from friends at a UMC church I used to pastor. Their son in his late teens was secretly addicted to opioids. Then one night he went reluctantly to a horror movie with friends. The combined effect of created fear and opioids left him vulnerable to spirit oppression with paranormal manifestations like a supernatural light shining in his closet and his bedsheets being violently ripped from his bed in the middle of the night.

His desperate parents summoned an evangelical deliverance team to "cleanse" the boy and his room, but their invocation of Jesus' name had no effect. As a last resort, these evangelical parents called the local Catholic bishop, who sent them a mild-mannered Nigerian priest-exorcist. This Nigerian chanted his exorcism prayers, SPRINKLED HOLY WATER, and quickly took charge of the infesting spirit. This Catholic Nigerian succeeded where the evangelical exorcist team failed!

(ii) The real possession case that inspired the horror movie, "The Exorcist," involved a young boy who was playing with a Ouija board. The boy displayed the classic paranormal symptoms of possession--superhuman strength, levitation, psychokinetic movement of objects, etc. A Lutheran pastor tried and failed to exorcise the boy and was injured in his efforts. Realizing he was in over his head, he called the local Catholic bishop, who sent Father Bowdern for a long siege with Satan that involved a family move form Georgetown to St. Louis. Father Bowderm and his Catholic team regularly sprinkled Holy Water on the boy, which greatly upset the demon and proved quite effective. Eventually the boy converted to Catholicism so he could receive the Catholic Eucharist. The key moment of victory occurred when the boy was able to affirm Jesus as his Lord and confessed "Dominus."

 

[Deadworm]

(1b) HEALING MARIAN SPRINGS

An important variant of Holy Water is the healing Marian spring. If you want to experience awe, wonder, and a profound sense of the sacred watch this famous old movie ("The Song of Bernadette" [1943]) about Bernadette, the simple young girl whose visions of the Virgin Mary led to her discovery of the hidden spring at Lourdes that over the centuries has triggered pilgrimages by millions and countless healing miracles.

the song of bernadette movie online - Search Videos


Jennifer Jones won the Best Actress Oscar for her performance as Bernadette. Watch this movie and it will change the way you view Catholic spirituality, despite your misgivings about Mariology. More Christians visit Lourdes annually than Muslims who visit their holy site Mecca.

I will provide an example of the spectacular modern healiing miracles at Lourdes in my next planned post.

THE HEALING SPRING BY THE HOUSE OF THE VIRGIN MARY ON TOP OF A SMALL MOUNTAIN JUST OUTSIDE THE MASSIVE RUINS OF ANCIENT EPHESUS

Dick climbed this little mountain on a "Footsteps of St. Paul Tour" that he (and later I) took about 10 years ago. Dick went on this tour despite the fact that he had torn tendons in his badly arthritic knee.
He limped badly up the beautiful little mountain lined with box-shaped trees and an elegant wall along the pathway. A Turkish lady saw him limp and urged him to bottle water from the adjacent Marian spring that could be tapped from a spigot in the descending wall. A skeptical Dick complied just to be polite, but when he returned to his hotel, he complained about his pain to his wife, Mary Ann. She replied, "Well, why don't you pour the bottled water onto your knee to see if that helps?" Dick replied, "Why? It's just water with no special powers!" His wife retorted, "I agree, but what do you have to lose?" So Dick reluctantly poured the water on his knee. He felt a little better, but attributed this to a placebo effect.

When he returned to the US, he entered a Spokane hospital for orthopedic surgery on his knee. When he came out of the anesthesia, his surgeon stood at the foot of his bed. The surgeon said defensively, "I don't understand it. We took MRIs and did other tests on your torn tendons before your trip, but when we cut you open, your knee was perfectly normal and even the arthritis was gone!" The doctor probably feared a malpractice lawsuit. Dick testified to his miracle in my church and began it in this unforgettable way: "Now I do some things which many of you would disapprove of!"

 

[JonC]

With Holy Water I do not believe non-Catholics reject how it was used in Scripture. But, as the passage you point to in Numbers shows, this is not Holy Water in terms of its use in the Catholic Church.

This seems to be the same with many Catholic doctrines. It is not that there is no mention of an element or doctrine in Scripture but that it appears the Catholic Church sometines looked to Scripture in order to justify a practice (rather than it being derived from Scripture) and at other times simply holds different interpretations.

The closest thing we have to the Catholic use of holy water is not Scripture but Roman paganistic use (carried over from Greek paganism) where water from the pagan temple was considered to be holy water and was used for purification and blessing.

It seems that the more logical origin of Catholic holy water would be a carry over from Roman paganism when the Roman Empire became "Christian", and from there an appeal was made to Scrioture (Christianizing an already existing practice).


Regardless, given that the Romans, while pagan, used holy water in a similar way as Catholics we cannot say that the use as is practiced today originated with Scripture.

 

[Deadworm]

There is not even a shred of evidence that the Catholic use of Holy Water was borrowed from paganism,
and even if it did, its grounding in biblical teaching and precedent is sufficient to validate its use, especially since God uses it to perform miracles like exorcism when evangelical efforts to do so fail miserably, as my prior post demonstrates.I ndeed, the celebration is Holy Communion is influecned by pagan mystery religions, but the Christian development of this practice protects it from dismissal as a pagan ritual.

 

[Deadworm]

(1c) God has mightily used the spring at Lourdes to achieve astounding healing miracles comparable to the miracles from the time of Bernadette's divine call to dig an unseen spring at the small cave at Louirdes'. Catholics have long established a staff of investigative doctors and surgeons there to collect medical records and identify the healings that lack parallels in spontaneous remissions of various sorts. But countless sick visitors don't bother with the hassle of a medical investigation, preferring rather to glory in the grace of God in performing their miracle there. Here is a video of how Mary Maguire received a healing from advanced multipple scherosis after being confined to a wheelchair fo much of her life. When she touched the rock of Bernadette's cave, she was instantly healed. She bolted from her chair, ealking and leaping up and down the many steps of the sanctuary there, praising God and shouting out her testimony to everyone withn earshot. Watch this testimony. It will change your life:

Search Videos view=detail&q=lourdes+healing+miracle+testimony+mary+maguire+youtube&mid=F665F326FF20C5282591F665F326FF20C5282591&FORM=VIRE

What is particularly instructive about Mary's miracle is her initial failure on her first visit to Lourdes. God prompted her to return a week later and this time she forgot her dire condition and spent days praying for the other needy pilgrims there. Then when she herself again touched the cave rock, she was instantly healed! Providentially, yesterday I heard the testimony of another Christian woman with advanced multiple sclerosis. She never went to Lourdes, but heard a voice commanding her, "Rise from your wheelchair and walk." She was instantly healed. And like Mary Maguire, she had forgotten her own need and spent her days praying for others to be healed!

 

[JonC]

There is not even a shred of evidence that the Catholic use of Holy Water was borrowed from paganism,
and even if it did, its grounding in biblical teaching and precedent is sufficient to validate its use, especially since God uses it to perform miracles like exorcism when evangelical efforts to do so fail miserably, as my prior post demonstrates.I ndeed, the celebration is Holy Communion is influecned by pagan mystery religions, but the Christian development of this practice protects it from dismissal as a pagan ritual.

And there is not that it was borrowed from Scripture, either. That is my point.

1. The Catholic USE of holy water is foreign to Scripture (in the Bible there are no examples of holy water being used how the Catholic Church uses it.....read, for example, the passage in Numbers you brought up).

2. The Catholic USE of holy water mirrors the Roman pagan practices prior to Rome "converting" to Catholicism.


By observation of nations and areas that "converted" to a religion we can easily see a blend of faiths.

This is a factor that sparked the Hasmonean period (imposed religion, worshipping a pagan god outwardly but God inwardly). We see this in areas of Louisiana that "converted" to Christianity. Elements of the former religion make it into the new religion.

I once listened to a Roman Catholic theologian who said that God purified the pagan aspects.

The issue here is if it originated with paganism (Greek paganism had the same practice) and was then grounded in Scripture then it is backwards (it is akin to grounding slavery in America to Scripture....you hold a form of something and then seek to anchor it in the Bible).

The problem is that the Catholic use of holy water is foreign to Scripture.


Viewing Catholicism as "christianizing" Roman paganism is a logical conclusion (not the only logical conclusion). Not proof, but not without evidence as well.

But I agree with you that practicing Catholics are very spiritual people. So are Muslims. Unfortunately often times Baptists are not.

 

[JonC]

And, of you look at the passages you have provided, you are making huge assumptions.

Jesus' use of spittle to heal the blind man is Jesus recognizing the power of holy water?

Bathing in ritual water can purify someone and refusing to use this water retains guilt in Lev. 17:15-16????? The passage actually says if somebody eats a dead animal or one torn by beasts he shall wash his clothes and bathe in water and remain unclean until evening.

Naaman reluctantly obeys Elisha's command to immerse himself 7 times in the Jordan to heal his leprosy is an example of holy water.....the river Jordan is holy water????

Pool of Bethzatha has healing efficacy when the angel sstirred it up....it was filled with holy water??


I do not believe that you read those passages.

It is Biblical to view those instances as acts of faith and acts of obedience (acts Scripture states will result in blessings) rather than magical water.

 

[Deadworm]

And, of you look at the passages you have provided, you are making huge assumptions.

Jesus' use of spittle to heal the blind man is Jesus recognizing the power of holy water?

You just unwittingly conceded my point in 2 ways. (1) You claim with no evidence that Catholics borrowed the practice from paganism. What you don't get is that Jesus borrowed the practice of using water (spittle) snf clay to heal from Hellenistic magic! For detailed documentation of this magical practice in Hellenistic magic, see the scholarly documentation and analysis in John Hull, "Hellenistic Magic and Synoptic tradition. and Morton Smith, "Jesus the Magician." It doesn't matter if the water is poured or applied by spitting. The act of faith is the decisive healing agent.

Naaman reluctantly obeys Elisha's command to immerse himself 7 times in the Jordan to heal his leprosy is an example of holy water.....the river Jordan is holy water????

(2) The 2nd point you don't get is that there is nothing magical about the water in either the Jordan River or in Marian healing springs. It was God's decision to use the Jordan to heal Naaman in response to his faithful obedience that empowered the river to heal. Similarly, it is God's decision mediated through Marian visions to use springs to heal in response to faith.
In the case of my friend Dick, he rejected the spring's healing efficacy as nonsense, but poured it on his severely damaged knee only after his wife's prodding. But I can attest to the powerful faith in healing of the pilgrims visiting that shrine.
Dick's surgeon confirmed the healing miracle through MRIs , etc. only qfter he cut open Dick's knee.

Catholics experience so many more miraculous healings than Baptists because they are willing to apply biblical precedents and principles of "the whole councel of God" to their life of faith. Jesus taught, "By their fruits you shall koow them," with reference to miracles among other things (see Matthew 7:25-23).


I

It is Biblical to view those instances as acts of faith and acts of obedience (acts Scripture states will result in blessings) rather than magical water.

 

[Deadworm]

No, Jesus was not a magician, but He borrowed practices from magic that functioned as effective valves to release their faith.

Readers should note that in typical Baptist fashion Jon C has not bothered to watch my posted testimony videos, though Baptists typically expect outsiders to take their personal testimonies seriously. I on the other hand am willing to watch any Baptist sanctioned videos as a gesture of good faith and in the interests of intellectual integrity, if Baptists are willing to reciprocate. From my experience Baptists are unwilling to step outside their myopic thought Ghetto and breathe the fresh air of honest and open inquiry. One of my favorite Billy Graham sayings is "In life theological understanding is the booby prize because it gives you just enough spirituality to inoculate you against the real thing." Of course, by "real thing" he meant spiritual experience, a vibrant life-changing encounter with Jesus Christ. Despite my disagreements with my Pentecostal heritage, I ''m so grateful for the many miracles I experienced in that tradition as "the power and demonstration of the Spirit" without which I doubt I'd still be a Christian. Many Catholics also thrive on such paranormal experiences. So I highly respect their spirituality despite the fact that I''ve successfully sued them.. 'm just waiting now for Baptists to play the card: "if they don't support my theology, miracles must be demonic"--this despite the way they inspire faith and bring glory to God, and increase loving devotion to Jesusl

 

[JonC]

No, Jesus was not a magician, but He borrowed practices from magic that functioned as effective valves to release their faith.

Readers should note that in typical Baptist fashion Jon C has not bothered to watch my posted testimony videos, though Baptists typically expect outsiders to take their personal testimonies seriously. I on the other hand am willing to watch any Baptist sanctioned videos as a gesture of good faith and in the interests of intellectual integrity, if Baptists are willing to reciprocate. From my experience Baptists are unwilling to step outside their myopic thought Ghetto and breathe the fresh air of honest and open inquiry. One of my favorite Billy Graham sayings is "In life theological understanding is the booby prize because it gives you just enough spirituality to inoculate you against the real thing." Of course, by "real thing" he meant spiritual experience, a vibrant life-changing encounter with Jesus Christ. Despite my disagreements with my Pentecostal heritage, I ''m so grateful for the many miracles I experienced in that tradition as "the power and demonstration of the Spirit" without which I doubt I'd still be a Christian. Many Catholics also thrive on such paranormal experiences. So I highly respect their spirituality despite the fact that I''ve successfully sued them.. 'm just waiting now for Baptists to play the card: "if they don't support my theology, miracles must be demonic"--this despite the way they inspire faith and bring glory to God, and increase loving devotion to Jesusl

No, Jesus did not borrow practices from magic.

You are wrong about personal testimony. I do believe that through faith many things can be accomplished. And experiences do matter.

BUT we are to test these against Scripture.

I know of testimonies of many miracles that occurred in the last couple of decades. Most of these were healings. And many of these were from devot Muslims healed by the hands of devout Muslims (karamah). I know of testimonies where "name it and claim it" people were rewarded with money, a car, and jobs. I have Mormon friends who speak of healings by Mormons who have been given that gift. One was a teen who was healed of cancer.

I don't doubt their experiences. I do question the validity of their understanding of those experiences because they do not pass the test of Scripture.

Catholicism is exactly the same. I do not question the experience, however the fact that many Catholic doctrines and practices do not pass the test of Sctipture makes me question the conclusions.

Your example of holy water is a good example. You claim to have been a professor of theology, however your lack of attention to the passages you quoted to support your claim makes me wonder if this is true.


Go back. Read the passages you referenced and the conclusions you made. Your conclusions do not pass the test. You made too many assumptions based on presupposed ideas - you started with Catholicism and searched for evidence. That is backwards.

 

[Cathode]

A friend got very sick and oppressed, doctors couldn’t explain it.

In prayer we discerned that his wife was the cause, she had taken up reke and Wicca and a number of other occult practices according to my friend.

When she went to a Robbie Williams concert with her witchy friends one night.

We threw out all the occult paraphernalia and objects.

We put Benedict medals at the four corners of his property.

Spread blessed salt and holy water across the whole property and every room and passageway of the house.

We marked every door and door frame with blessed oil in the sign of the Cross, and smoked out the whole house with blessed incense.

The whole time doing the prayers of Exorcism and Scripture.

Then we left an open Heirloom Bible belonging my friend on the coffee table, it was on some deliverance passages.

When she got dropped off back from the concert while standing on the road, she started screaming. She kept screaming “ what have you done “ and “ the energy is gone “. She felt it was almost impossible to even enter the yard.

She went into a full rage ran into the house grabbed her car keys and my friends heirloom family bible and drove off with it and later said that she threw it in a dumpster. She stayed at her parents place after that and she divorced him.

In former times the Inquisition would have taken up this case file, but so many people have become witches unknowingly or knowingly these days, that an Inquisitor would have be permanently assigned to each parish.

 

[Deadworm]

No, Jesus did not borrow practices from magic.

How ironic that you can dismiss the use of Holy Water bv pontificating without evidence its pagan origin, and yet, you reject the scholarly consensus that Jesus borrowed His weird use of spittle and clay to heal the blind and deaf from Hellenistic magic.
This long-discontinued use of spittle and clay to heal was widespread in contemporary magic,, so of course Jesus borrowed iit s use from the culture of His time. Indeed, widespread contemporary parallels are precisely the basis for cultural influence iof distinctive phenomena in late antiquity.

You are wrong about personal testimony. I do believe that through faith many things can be accomplished. And experiences do matter.

Most non-charismatic fundamentalists I'm aware of embrace the biblically unfounded doctrine of cessationism to rationalize the lack of healing miracles in their faith community. I'm glad that you at least are an exception to this view.

I don't doubt their experiences. I do question the validity of their understanding of those experiences because they do not pass the test of Scripture. Catholicism is exactly the same. I do not question the experience, however the fact that many Catholic doctrines and practices do not pass the test of Sctipture makes me question the conclusions.

.
Your example of holy water is a good example. You claim to have been a professor of theology, however your lack of attention
to the passages you quoted to support your claim makes me wonder if this is true.

First, you wrongly assume that God performs healing miracles when the doctrines of believers are basically correct.
Second, you overlook the obvious assumption that if God now heals through sprinkling consecrated water, then biblical precedent for this practice is a biblically valid justification.
Third, you ignore the fact that beneficiaries of healing miracles at Lourdes, etc, give the glory to God and deepen their faith in Hiis grace. You would know this if you were not too closed-minded to watch the testimony videos I posted.
Fourth, being decisively reguted, you feel forced to resort to the desperate expedient of questioning my academic credent ials--an MDiv from Pronceton and a doctorate in New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman Backgrounds at Harvard, where I also served as a Teaching Feollowi in New Testamement and Classics. As an active member of the learned Society of Biblical LIterature, I can assure you that the views expressed here reflect the standard scholarly consensus.

 

[Deadworm]

2(2) HOLY RELICS

Biblical precedent for healing miracles associated with the bones or clothing of saints can be found in 2 Kings 13:21, which recounts the restoration of a dead man to life through contact with Elisha's bones.
The Shroud of Turin's authenticity has been discussed on other threads. My point for this thread is the frequency of miracles throughout history such as divine healing generated by some sort of contact with the Shroud. For ancient and modern examples, read this article:

Healing Miracles of The Shroud of Turin

What prompted me to take holy relics seriously was a Catholic man's testimony of how his wife's congestive heart failure was cured when he visited a saint's tomb in Italy and asked that saint to pray for his wife. His wife was instantly healed! This impressed me particularly because I have a good friend who suffers from congestive heart failure and have often prayed in vain for his healing. Indeed, in my Pentecostal and Methodist circles I haven't even heard of someone with this life-threatening condition being healed. Why would the bones or artifacts of the dead and prayer to saints trigger such a miracle, when the desperate prayers of Protestants like me go unheard?

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[JonC]

A family member had a brain tumor. The doctors gave her less than a year without surgery. After surgery she was to have chemo.

After surgery they discovered the tumor, which indeed had to be removed, was not malignant. They had planned on chemo because it is rare that the type of tumor not be cancer.

I remember growing up my dad would have a conviction to place money in an individuals mail box - just cash in a blank envelope. Later the man related recieving the money (not knowing my father placed it in his mailbox). He had been praying that day because he couldn't meet a financial need.

God does answer prayers.

 

[JonC]

...(didn't use quote correctly)

I would expect a theology professor to have been more careful with Scripture. The conclusions you made were from a presupposed position.

Who would read Jesus making mud out of spittle to mean we should use holy water to heal unless they already held a view affirmative of holy water?

Who would read about a man dunking himself 7 times in a river and remaining unclean until evening to be teaching the use of holy water unless that one already believed in holy water?

Who would read of the angel stirring up a pool and people going during that time to be heald to indicate the significance was the actual water unless they already held a view that one can be healed by holy water.

If a professor then your profession was within the arena of indoctrination into Catholicism rather than theology as a whole.

I don't doubt that you were a professor in a Catholic setting, but I do question the value of this in Christian Theology as a whole because you seem to assume Catholic doctrines and you read them into the passages you present as evidence.

This is proven by the fact that no passage you offered as evidence of the Catholic holy water is actually evidence. They are instead reinforcements of an already held dogma.

If you want to discuss theology outside of a Catholic audience then you will have to move from Catholic dogma to Scripture as it is the common ground.

 

[Cathode]

No, Jesus did not borrow practices from magic.

You are wrong about personal testimony. I do believe that through faith many things can be accomplished. And experiences do matter.

BUT we are to test these against Scripture.

I know of testimonies of many miracles that occurred in the last couple of decades. Most of these were healings. And many of these were from devot Muslims healed by the hands of devout Muslims (karamah). I know of testimonies where "name it and claim it" people were rewarded with money, a car, and jobs. I have Mormon friends who speak of healings by Mormons who have been given that gift. One was a teen who was healed of cancer.

I don't doubt their experiences. I do question the validity of their understanding of those experiences because they do not pass the test of Scripture.

Catholicism is exactly the same. I do not question the experience, however the fact that many Catholic doctrines and practices do not pass the test of Sctipture makes me question the conclusions.

Your example of holy water is a good example. You claim to have been a professor of theology, however your lack of attention to the passages you quoted to support your claim makes me wonder if this is true.

Go back. Read the passages you referenced and the conclusions you made. Your conclusions do not pass the test. You made too many assumptions based on presupposed ideas - you started with Catholicism and searched for evidence. That is backwards.

2(2) HOLY RELICS

Biblical precedent for healing miracles associated with the bones or clothing of saints can be found in 2 Kings 13:21, which recounts the restoration of a dead man to life through contact with Elisha's bones.
The Shroud of Turin's authenticity has been discussed on other threads. My point for this thread is the frequency of miracles throughout history such as divine healing generated by some sort of contact with the Shroud. For ancient and modern examples, read this article:

Healing Miracles of The Shroud of Turin

What prompted me to take holy relics seriously was a Catholic man's testimony of how his wife's congestive heart failure was cured when he visited a saint's tomb in Italy and asked that saint to pray for his wife. His wife was instantly healed! This impressed me particularly because I have a good friend who suffers from congestive heart failure and have often prayed in vain for his healing. Indeed, in my Pentecostal and Methodist circles I haven't even heard of someone with this life-threatening condition being healed. Why would the bones or artifacts of the dead and prayer to saints trigger such a miracle, when the desperate prayers of Protestants like me go unheard?

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When people say they are cessationists, I understood they don’t grasp the spiritual realities nor have been exposed to them.

I have had powerful experiences that leave me in no doubt.

 

[JonC]

When people say they are cessationists, I understood they don’t grasp the spiritual realities nor have been exposed to them.

I have had powerful experiences that leave me in no doubt.

I agree. That is a problem with cessationists. They can offer no legitimate reason except they see no need for such things, as if their need dictates God's actions.

 

[Deadworm]

When people say they are cessationists, I understood they don’t grasp the spiritual realities nor have been exposed to them.

I have had powerfu

I would expect a theology professor to have been more careful with Scripture. The conclusions you made were from a presupposed position.

Who would read Jesus making mud out of spittle to mean we should use holy water to heal unless they already held a view affirmative of holy water?

Who? A biblically literate Christian who realizes that your moist mud example is irrelevant to the point at issue.
What you don't get is that Jesus healed through anointing with water (spittle) alone (Mark 7:33: 6:23).and James teaches us to anoint the sick with oil (James 5:14). Catholics have always anointed with both holy water and holy oil. So only your lack of imagination can account for the obvious precedent Catholics find in Scripture for anointing with both holy water and oil.
And why don't Jesus and James just advocate the use of healing prayer alone without accompanying props?
Because they and the sick to be healed live in an atmosphere of the use of spittle and oil in Hellenistic magic tor healing .
Who would read about a man dunking himself 7 times in a river and remaining unclean until evening to be teaching the use of holy water unless that one already believed in holy water?

Who? Again, Catholics who believe in the value of biblical precedent--who believe that if God can heal through immersion in the Jordan and the pool of Bethzatha, He can heal through anointing with special springs appointed by God for occasional healing in response to faith, especially since He also heals thought the application of water (spittle) and o

Above all, Catholic use of holy water and healing springs is vindicated by the couintless healing miracles they experience through this practice in fulfillment of Jesus' principle "By their fruits you shall know them"--a principle applied to exorcisms and healing miracles in Matthew 7:15-23.