The Biblical Basis of 10 Catholic Distinctives

[Cathode]

This is the Exorcism and Blessing of Salt which is added to the water. The Roman Rite.

P: O salt, creature of God, I exorcise you by the living (+) God, by the true (+) God, by the holy (+) God, by the God who ordered you to be poured into the water by Elisha the prophet, so that its life-giving powers might be restored. I exorcise you so that you may become a means of salvation for believers, that you may bring health of soul and body to all who make use of you, and that you may put to flight and drive away from the places where you are sprinkled; every apparition, villainy, turn of devilish deceit, and every unclean spirit; adjured by him who will come to judge the living and the dead and the world by fire.

R: Amen.

P: Let us pray. Almighty and everlasting God, we humbly implore you, in your immeasurable kindness and love, to bless (+) this salt which you created and gave to the use of mankind, so that it may become a source of health for the minds and bodies of all who make use of it. May it rid whatever it touches or sprinkles of all uncleanness, and protect it from every assault of evil spirits. Through Christ our Lord.

R: Amen.

So the use of an object to convey God’s Grace and protection.

The Exorcism and blessing of the water

P: O water, creature of God, I exorcise you in the name of God the Father (+) Almighty, and in the name of Jesus (+) Christ His Son, our Lord, and in the power of the Holy (+) Spirit. I exorcise you so that you may put to flight all the power of the enemy, and be able to root out and supplant that enemy with his apostate angels, through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will come to judge the living and the dead and the world by fire.

R: Amen.

P: Let us pray. O God, for the salvation of mankind, you built your greatest mysteries on this substance, water. In your kindness, hear our prayers and pour down the power of your blessing (+) into this element, made ready for many kinds of purifications. May this, your creature, become an agent of divine grace in the service of your mysteries, to drive away evil spirits and dispel sickness, so that everything in the homes and other buildings of the faithful that is sprinkled with this water, may be rid of all uncleanness and freed from every harm. Let no breath of infection and no disease-bearing air remain in these places. May the wiles of the lurking enemy prove of no avail. Let whatever might menace the safety and peace of those who live here be put to flight by the sprinkling of this water, so that the health obtained by calling upon your holy name, may be made secure against all attack. Through Christ our Lord.

R: Amen.

(Priest pours exorcised salt into the water, in the form of a cross)

P: May a mixture of salt and water now be made, in the name of the Father, and of the (+) Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

R: Amen.

P: The Lord be with you.
R: And with your spirit.

P: Let us pray. O God, Creator unconquerable, invincible King, Victor ever-glorious, you hold in check the forces bent on dominating us. You overcome the cruelty of the raging enemy, and in your power you beat down the wicked foe. Humbly and fearfully do we pray to you, O Lord, and we ask you to look with favor on this salt and water which you created. Shine on it with the light of your kindness. Sanctify it by the dew of your love, so that, through the invocation of your holy name, wherever this water and salt is sprinkled, it may turn aside every attack of the unclean spirit, and dispel the terrors of the poisonous serpent. And wherever we may be, make the Holy Spirit present to us, who now implore your mercy. Through Christ our Lord.

R: Amen.

 

[Oseas3]

This is the Exorcism and Blessing of Salt which is added to the water. The Roman Rite.

P: O salt, creature of God, I exorcise you by the living (+) God, by the true (+) God, by the holy (+) God, by the God who ordered you to be poured into the water by Elisha the prophet, so that its life-giving powers might be restored. I exorcise you so that you may become a means of salvation for believers, that you may bring health of soul and body to all who make use of you, and that you may put to flight and drive away from the places where you are sprinkled; every apparition, villainy, turn of devilish deceit, and every unclean spirit; adjured by him who will come to judge the living and the dead and the world by fire.

R: Amen.

The devilish verbiage above is a mere mixture of spiritual witchcraft for exorcisms that is used by your satanic church, that is the false, and satanic, and pseudo-Chrinistianity, with headquarter in Rome. The satanic verbiage posted by you by the spirit of darkeness is MORTAL, in the way the Devil likes, a satanic exorcism made by ministers of Satan(2Corinthians 11:13-15).

Revelation 21:8-
8 But the idolaters, and sorcerers, and all liars, and fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Get ready

P: Let us pray. Almighty and everlasting God, we humbly implore you, in your immeasurable kindness and love, to bless (+) this salt which you created and gave to the use of mankind, so that it may become a source of health for the minds and bodies of all who make use of it. May it rid whatever it touches or sprinkles of all uncleanness, and protect it from every assault of evil spirits. Through Christ our Lord.

R: Amen.

The demonic pray above described is good for nothing, except to deceive the readers here, and hearers of the satanic verbiage of your pray makes in your devilish church or elsewhere, in the way the Devil likes.

Revelation 19:20-21
20 And the Beast (Beast of Rome) was (will be)taken, and with him the false prophet (John 5:43-47, the false messiah of the Jews)that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the Beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were (will be) cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were (WILL BE) slain with the Sword of him that sat upon the horse, which Sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Get ready

 

[Cathode]

Revelation 19:20-21
20 And the Beast (Beast of Rome) was (will be)taken, and with him the false prophet (John 5:43-47, the false messiah of the Jews)that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the Beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were (will be) cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were (WILL BE) slain with the Sword of him that sat upon the horse, which Sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

“I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;“ Rev 22:18.

Big mistake adding your words to this book.

 

[Oseas3]

So the use of an object to convey God’s Grace and protection.
The Exorcism and blessing of the water

P: O water, creature of God, I exorcise you in the name of God the Father (+) Almighty, and in the name of Jesus (+) Christ His Son, our Lord, and in the power of the Holy (+) Spirit. I exorcise you so that you may put to flight all the power of the enemy, and be able to root out and supplant that enemy with his apostate angels, through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will come to judge the living and the dead and the world by fire.

R: Amen.
P: Let us pray. O God, for the salvation of mankind, you built your greatest mysteries on this substance, water. In your kindness, hear our prayers and pour down the power of your blessing (+) into this element, made ready for many kinds of purifications. May this, your creature, become an agent of divine grace in the service of your mysteries, to drive away evil spirits and dispel sickness, so that everything in the homes and other buildings of the faithful that is sprinkled with this water, may be rid of all uncleanness and freed from every harm. Let no breath of infection and no disease-bearing air remain in these places. May the wiles of the lurking enemy prove of no avail. Let whatever might menace the safety and peace of those who live here be put to flight by the sprinkling of this water, so that the health obtained by calling upon your holy name, may be made secure against all attack. Through Christ our Lord.
R: Amen.

(Priest pours exorcised salt into the water, in the form of a cross)

P: May a mixture of salt and water now be made, in the name of the Father, and of the (+) Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
R: Amen.

P: The Lord be with you.
R: And with your spirit.

P: Let us pray. O God, Creator unconquerable, invincible King, Victor ever-glorious, you hold in check the forces bent on dominating us. You overcome the cruelty of the raging enemy, and in your power you beat down the wicked foe. Humbly and fearfully do we pray to you, O Lord, and we ask you to look with favor on this salt and water which you created. Shine on it with the light of your kindness. Sanctify it by the dew of your love, so that, through the invocation of your holy name, wherever this water and salt is sprinkled, it may turn aside every attack of the unclean spirit, and dispel the terrors of the poisonous serpent. And wherever we may be, make the Holy Spirit present to us, who now implore your mercy. Through Christ our Lord.

R: Amen.

The satanic verbiage posted by you by the spirit of darkeness is MORTAL, in the way the Devil likes, a satanic exorcism made by ministers of Satan(2Corinthians 11:13-15).
Revelation 21:8-
8 But the idolaters, and sorcerers, and all liars, and fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Get ready

The battle is against THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS?

Revelation 16:v.13 to 16
1 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast, and out of the mouth of the False Prophet-(John 5:43-47).
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Ar - mag - eddon.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Well, all Christian/believer knows that the battle of AR-Mag(Magog)-Eddon(means red) is against three UNCLEAN SPIRITS like frogs. Why frogs? I searched deeply an explanation for this biblical mystery, and by the Word of GOD what I found is the follow:

In general, frogs are amphibians vertebrate animals that live in the aquatic environment and on the terrestrial environment. But is it the same in the spiritual environment? Yes, it is.

1 - THE AQUATIC ENVIRONMENT OF THE EVIL SPIRITS LIKE FROGS
Revelation 17:v.15 - And the angel saith unto me, The WATERS which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. NOTE: Except the TRUE CHRISTIANS/ BELIEVERS, all the peoples of all nations are leaded, and dominated, and guided by the THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS like frogs. TERRIBLE. TERRIBLE.

That said, we can see by the above verse 15 the aquatic environment of these three spirits of demons like frogs which guide the peoples or rule nations of all tongues in whole earth, through all kind of devilish systems, as religious systems as Catholicism, and Judaism, and spiritism, budhism, islamism, among others), and also political systems, and military systems, and social and cultural systems, among others systems. In fact, Satan goes to and fro and from walking up and down among them.

2 - THE TERRESTRIAL ENVIRONMENT OF THE EVIL SPIRITS LIKE FROGS
FIRST we need to understand that Israel is an island among the waters (Gentile nations) or in the middle of the sea, as is described above in according the Scriptures. Israel is the earth, a dry land, Genesis 1:v.10-3rd Day- or still the clay-Isaiah 64:v.8- a dry land surrounded by water on all sides or by allegory surrounded by the Gentile nations. Remember, even Isaiah prophesized saying:
Isaiah 41:v.1-2 -

1 - Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to Judgment.
2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his Sword-Revelation 2:v.26 to 28-, and as driven stubble to his bow. (bow-Revelation 6:v.2)

That said, there is no doubt Israel is the earth, the dry land -Genesis 1:v.10-3rd Day - , with its great city spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, yeah, Israel, the earth, the dry land, was and is also dominated by the three unclean spirits like frogs, which infested the nation of idolatries, and wichcraft,spiritism/esoterism , idolaters and spiritist peoples or esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist peoples that follow the esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist Judaism, and they are waiting their messiah who must manifest himself soon (he was born decades ago and must manifest himself soon-2 Thes.2:v.6), and he will be one of the heads of the MONSTRUOUS and SATANIC Antichrist's Empire together the Beast of sea-Daniel 2:v.40 to 43 and Revelation 13:v.1 to 10-the Beast of sea- and Revelation 13:v.11 to 18-the Beast of the earth.

These are the spiritual ENVIRONMENT that the GOD's people will see in the last week 70th Daniel 9:v.27 that may be within these current dec ade of 2020-2030.

Get ready

My Lord JESUS warned:

Revelation 16:15 - KJV
15 - Behold, I come as a thief...

 

[Oseas3]

“I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;“ Rev 22:18.

Big mistake adding your words to this book.

The Beast's trash that you come to throw here through your demonic posts, it has nothing to do with the Scripture of my Lord you are quoting, Satan has nothing to do with the Word of GOD, but with the Beast's trash that you come to throw here through your idolater and demonic posts, that will be burned with everlasting fire-2Peter 3:7and 11-12.

Get ready, yeah, get ready

 

[Oseas3]

I am an evangelical Methodist who grew up Pentecostal. But for 12 years I was a Theology Professor at a Catholic university. Readers who have followed my critical posts in the Perpetual Virginity thread may be surprised by my positive perspective on Catholic spirituality. I have even won a lawsuit against Catholics! Despite this, I believe there is no Christian spirituality superior to Catholic spirituality at its best and I prefer to ponder the relevance of the biblical basis for this spirituality to my own Christian journey. Sadly, many evangelicals assess Catholic spirituality only on the basis of its worst exemplars and know nothing of how informed Catholics might support their distinctives on biblical grounds. So in this thread I will take a sympathetic look at the biblical basis for 10 Catholic distinctives. In the interests of coherent and focused discussion, I only ask posters to confine their comments to the distinctive under currrent discussion. In my next planned post I will begin with the biblical basis for the Catholic use of Holy Water.

This thread will sequentially discuss the biblical underpinnings of these 10 Catholic distinctives:
(1) Holy Water
(2) Holy Relics
(3) Prayer to Saints
(4) Catholic Mariology
(5) Priestly Confession and Absolution
(6) Infant Baptism
(7) Transubstantiation/ Real Presence
(8) Purgatory
(9) Catholic Doctrine of Justification
(10) Catholic View of Scripture and Tradition

Your thinking is from a human perspective, A STUMBLING BLOCK, similar to the thinking of MAN of sin-Genesis 3:1, not from GOD's perspective, as my Lord said to Peter Apostle-Matthew 16:23.

 

[JonC]

Well not having faith that God has the power to convey His healing Grace through an object, you would have strenuously rejected touching Paul’s apron if you were one of the sick and possessed, of cause.

You misunderstand.

I do not believe that God lacks the power to convey grace through an object.

In Scripture God often did exactly this as a "testimony" or "witness" thar the words associated with the object were from Him.

My question was why should I seek healing grace through a third source when I can, and have, sought this grace directly from God.


Catholics misunderstand the reasons of these objects in Scripture. That is understandable as one must pay attention to Scripture in order to know why those things occurred.


You still refuse to answer my question. Instead you deflect by making strawman arguments.


I have experienced the healing grace of God, the miracles of God, directly from God. Why should choose an object instead of God Himself?

I already experience what you use objects to try to experience. What need do I have of relics?


We use "magic objects" to aid children, to comfort them, to let them know they are safe. At some point, however, they need to understand that there isn't a monster under their bed and they are safe because they are home.

Catholics are very spiritual. But they have an extraordinary weak faith. They use objects to try to experience what many of us live and experience daily walking with God.

 

[Cathode]

You misunderstand.

I do not believe that God lacks the power to convey grace through an object.

In Scripture God often did exactly this as a "testimony" or "witness" thar the words associated with the object were from Him.

My question was why should I seek healing grace through a third source when I can, and have, sought this grace directly from God.

Were the sick and possessed seeking healing from a third source in these cases, why couldn’t they go directly to God?
Why hadn’t God healed them already?

Catholics misunderstand the reasons of these objects in Scripture.

No, we don’t. God’s mercy allows His grace of healing and mercy to be transmitted by a relic to the sick and possessed who cannot “ seek out “ anything. These relics were brought to them, and God healed people at the touch of those relics.

This affirms the Catholic Church use of relics. And why many Exorcists carry holy relics.

So in answer to your question, it’s not that people are seeking healing or deliverance from a third source, it’s that a third way can be brought to the sick and possessed, if the saint himself could not personally come and pray over them.

Catholics are very spiritual. But they have an extraordinary weak faith.

On the contrary, it takes more faith to believe that God could heal and deliver by subordinate means. That cloths sent from the Apostle was just as efficacious as having a Holy Apostle personally pray over you.

Reminds me of the Roman soldier who The Lord lauded as having the greatest faith, that because of religious propriety, said that it was enough that Jesus only say the word, and not be personally present to heal his child.

The Roman mentions his reasoning that he sends subordinates and they fulfil his orders.

 

[JonC]

Were the sick and possessed seeking healing from a third source in these cases, why couldn’t they go directly to God?
Why hadn’t God healed them already?



No, we don’t. God’s mercy allows His grace of healing and mercy to be transmitted by a relic to the sick and possessed who cannot “ seek out “ anything. These relics were brought to them, and God healed people at the touch of those relics.

This affirms the Catholic Church use of relics. And why many Exorcists carry holy relics.

So in answer to your question, it’s not that people are seeking healing or deliverance from a third source, it’s that a third way can be brought to the sick and possessed, if the saint himself could not personally come and pray over them.



On the contrary, it takes more faith to believe that God could heal and deliver by subordinate means. That cloths sent from the Apostle was just as efficacious as having a Holy Apostle personally pray over you.

Reminds me of the Roman soldier who The Lord lauded as having the greatest faith, that because of religious propriety, said that it was enough that Jesus only say the word, and not be personally present to heal his child.

The Roman mentions his reasoning that he sends subordinates and they fulfil his orders.

No. They were healed in such a way as the healing validated the words of the Apostles. Same with Jesus. Although it was His garment He attributed the healing to the faith of the woman and identified the healings as a testimony to the validity of His words.

A Catholic cannot understand this because of the paganism inherit in their faith. So they look to objects.

It does not take more faith to believe that these objects endowed by God's grace heals. That is in effect idolatry.

It takes Chriatian faith to understand that we can indeed call God "Abba", that we can trust Him, that He indeed cares for His children.

Why look to a subordinate when we have been welcomed openly to walk in this spiritual realm by God Himself?

Why look to a subordinate when we, who are truly saved, are already partakers of these blessings?

Why go to a priest when we can stand before our Mediator and be forgiven?

Catholicism is an amalgamation of Christianity and paganism. Its paganism demonstrates a weakness in that faith.

 

[Cathode]

No. They were healed in such a way as the healing validated the words of the Apostles. Same with Jesus. Although it was His garment He attributed the healing to the faith of the woman and identified the healings as a testimony to the validity of His words.

A Catholic cannot understand this because of the paganism inherit in their faith. So they look to objects.

It does not take more faith to believe that these objects endowed by God's grace heals. That is in effect idolatry.

How idolatry? If the handkerchiefs and aprons were merely endowed with God’s Grace and taken as such.

You seem to be receding into the cessationist argument that God only did miracles in the Apostolic age exclusively to testify to word preached.
However, miracles have always testified to the words preached. Paul was absent at these incidents of healing and deliverance apparently.
To me, these miracles were more down the mercy of God for sick and possessed people.
So it’s not exclusively down to validation of the preaching, but God’s mercy and love healing the sick and possessed.
You can take the legalistic exclusivist route saying miracles were only for validation of preaching, but I say both, and that God also does miracles because He Loves and has compassion for people.

I can witness to this, to this very day.

It takes Chriatian faith to understand that we can indeed call God "Abba", that we can trust Him, that He indeed cares for His children.

Why look to a subordinate when we have been welcomed openly to walk in this spiritual realm by God Himself?

Why look to a subordinate when we, who are truly saved, are already partakers of these blessings?

Why go to a priest when we can stand before our Mediator and be forgiven?

Catholicism is an amalgamation of Christianity and paganism. Its paganism demonstrates a weakness in that faith.

You forget that Jesus Himself sent subordinates the Apostles, and the Apostles sent their subordinates.

In fact we are all subordinates to The Head in The Body of Christ.

Why do we go out in street ministry? Why can’t these people go directly to Jesus to heal their addictions and problems.?

I only go to where I am sent, and anyone sent to me is sent by Jesus. Jesus heals and delivers through us His subordinates who He has sent.

 

[Oseas3]

Catholicism is an amalgamation of Christianity and paganism. Its paganism demonstrates a weakness in that faith.

How idolatry? If the handkerchiefs and aprons were merely endowed with God’s Grace and taken as such.

You seem to be receding into the cessationist argument that God only did miracles in the Apostolic age exclusively to testify to word preached.
However, miracles have always testified to the words preached. Paul was absent at these incidents of healing and deliverance apparently.
To me, these miracles were more down the mercy of God for sick and possessed people.
So it’s not exclusively down to validation of the preaching, but God’s mercy and love healing the sick and possessed.
You can take the legalistic exclusivist route saying miracles were only for validation of preaching, but I say both, and that God also does miracles because He Loves and has compassion for people.

I can witness to this, to this very day.

You forget that Jesus Himself sent subordinates the Apostles, and the Apostles sent their subordinates.

In fact we are all subordinates to The Head in The Body of Christ.

Why do we go out in street ministry? Why can’t these people go directly to Jesus to heal their addictions and problems.?

I only go to where I am sent, and anyone sent to me is sent by Jesus. Jesus heals and delivers through us His subordinates who He has sent.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

The earth is full of idols; peoples worship demonic idols, the satanic work of their own hands, the devilish idols which their own fingers have made, and the mean man bows down, and the great man humbles himself, therefore there will not be forgiven to them, the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that have forsaken the Lord will be consumed.

What does the Word of GOD say? Isaiah 2:10 and 17-21 combined with Revelation 6:15-17-take a look

10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His Majesty.

11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in this Day. (the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)

12 For the Day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low.

17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in this Day. ->the Lord's Day.

18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.

19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His Majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

20 In this Day (Lord's Day)a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;

21 To go into the clefts/dens of the rocks (full of bats, of course), and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His Majesty, when He arises to shake terribly the earth.

Get ready

 

[JonC]

How idolatry? If the handkerchiefs and aprons were merely endowed with God’s Grace and taken as such.

You seem to be receding into the cessationist argument that God only did miracles in the Apostolic age exclusively to testify to word preached.
However, miracles have always testified to the words preached. Paul was absent at these incidents of healing and deliverance apparently.
To me, these miracles were more down the mercy of God for sick and possessed people.
So it’s not exclusively down to validation of the preaching, but God’s mercy and love healing the sick and possessed.
You can take the legalistic exclusivist route saying miracles were only for validation of preaching, but I say both, and that God also does miracles because He Loves and has compassion for people.

I can witness to this, to this very day.



You forget that Jesus Himself sent subordinates the Apostles, and the Apostles sent their subordinates.

In fact we are all subordinates to The Head in The Body of Christ.

Why do we go out in street ministry? Why can’t these people go directly to Jesus to heal their addictions and problems.?

I only go to where I am sent, and anyone sent to me is sent by Jesus. Jesus heals and delivers through us His subordinates who He has sent.

Because the hankerchief, if Jesus was correct, was no more endowed with God's grace than Jesus' robe.

Do you recall what Jesus told the woman who touched Hos robe and was healed?

Hint: It wasn't "My graced endowed robe made you well".

 

[Cathode]

Because the hankerchief, if Jesus was correct, was no more endowed with God's grace than Jesus' robe.

Do you recall what Jesus told the woman who touched Hos robe and was healed?

Hint: It wasn't "My graced endowed robe made you well".

What makes objects Holy is grace, and Faith obtains it.

Scripture points out that objects touched to the skin of Paul were taken to the sick and possessed and healing and delivering them.

“so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.” Acts 19:12

So these relics were vehicles of Grace and people’s faith accessed it.

Like I said, it takes more faith to obtain grace by subordinate means.

And God does have the power to convey Grace through objects. Paul didn’t have to be personally there to pray over the sick and possessed.

 

[Cathode]

“for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.“ 1 Timothy 4

Objects can be made holy by The Word of God and prayer, and by The Holy Name of God in blessing.

Grace is imparted to things to make them Holy.

That scriptural reference was to Grace said over our food to make it Holy.

We call our prayer over food “Grace” and how apt, Grace makes our ordinary food Holy.

Paul’s ordinary handkerchief and apron would have been holy because of his being an oracle of God’s Holy Word and his constant prayer.

“Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.” 1 Thess 5:16-18

“Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms.” 1 Peter 4:10

We are stewards of God’s Grace which we impart by our love, lives, and blessings.

We become a subordinate source of Grace to others, because we are in Christ and Christ in us.

 

[Cathode]

Anyway, if people don’t have faith that God has the power to heal and deliver through objects and that objects can be made holy by the Word and prayer, then it would not be of any effect.

Believe in God’s power.

Power left Jesus through His robe and into the woman healing her instantly. She made no direct contact with Jesus. It was enough to touch His robe in Faith.

 

[JonC]

What makes objects Holy is grace, and Faith obtains it.

Scripture points out that objects touched to the skin of Paul were taken to the sick and possessed and healing and delivering them.

“so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.” Acts 19:12

So these relics were vehicles of Grace and people’s faith accessed it.

Like I said, it takes more faith to obtain grace by subordinate means.

And God does have the power to convey Grace through objects. Paul didn’t have to be personally there to pray over the sick and possessed.

The issue here is that Catholics seek relics endowed by God's grace while Chriatians experience God's grace through prayer and His Word.

Why should I seek a piece of cloth when I am welcomed into God's very presence through Christ?

Catholics are ritualistic but very weak of legitimate faith.

 

[JonC]

Anyway, if people don’t have faith that God has the power to heal and deliver through objects and that objects can be made holy by the Word and prayer, then it would not be of any effect.

Believe in God’s power.

Power left Jesus through His robe and into the woman healing her instantly. She made no direct contact with Jesus. It was enough to touch His robe in Faith.

The issue is not whether God has the power to heal through an object, or make a donkey talk.

The issue is whether one has the faith to ask and recieve or instead they seek out objects that are endowed by His grace.

To be fair, Scripture never speaks of an object being endowed by God's grace. The objects touched are relative to an affirmation of a message and, as Jesus points out, the healing is by faith - not by a magical cloth.

Catholics may be Christian, but they are also pagans. They hold a faith that is a Chriatianized form of paganism.

Look at their priesthood. Look at penance. Look at relics. Look at praying to saints. Look at the rituals. Look at theie Eucharist.

These are amalgamations of Christianity and paganism. They are products of a marriage of Church and State.

 

[Cathode]

The issue is not whether God has the power to heal through an object, or make a donkey talk.

The issue is whether one has the faith to ask and recieve or instead they seek out objects that are endowed by His grace.

The bronze serpent was sort out if people were bitten by snakes and they were healed by looking upon it.
So God established an object as a subordinate source of His healing Grace.

To be fair, Scripture never speaks of an object being endowed by God's grace. The objects touched are relative to an affirmation of a message and, as Jesus points out, the healing is by faith - not by a magical cloth.

Wrong. The Ark of the Covenant for one. People couldn’t touch it, it was so Holy.
The Sacred vessels in the temple were holy, only the priests could handle these as well.

You say this from desupernatuarlised legalistic Christianity. You don’t have Holy objects.

You don’t believe objects can be made holy by the Word of God and prayer as scripture states, this is not a spirituality in your tradition.
Your tradition condemns relics, and would have condemned the bringing of Paul’s handkerchiefs and aprons to the sick and possessed, calling it magic.

Catholics Invoke the Holy Name God in thanksgiving and recite scripture over and add our prayer intention over meals, that this food will benefit us in mind and body. This food is now Holy, Sanctified by Grace.

Why is it Holy? By Grace, Grace makes it Holy, when we speak The Holy Name, The Word, and our prayer over it.

That’s why protestants constantly sneer at Catholics on Holy Water, they are totally ignorant that an object can be made Holy by The Holy Name, The Word of God and Prayer as scripture states.

Catholics may be Christian, but they are also pagans. They hold a faith that is a Chriatianized form of paganism.

Look at their priesthood. Look at penance. Look at relics. Look at praying to saints. Look at the rituals. Look at theie Eucharist.

These are amalgamations of Christianity and paganism. They are products of a marriage of Church and State.

Legalistic Christianity when it encounters true supernatural Christianity, calls it pagan. The supernatural is automatically superstition, Grace is automatically “ magic “.

The Altar of ascensions (Exodus 29:37),

The Altar of incense (Exodus 30:10),

The tent, the Ark, the table of showbread, the lampstand, the laver (Exodus 30:29),

The incense (Exodus 30:36).

“And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations.
Upon man's flesh shall it not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you.” Exodus 30:31-32.

All Holy by Grace.

Catholics understand Grace in its spiritual and scriptural meaning.

Lawyers like Luther and Calvin set the mould of desupernaturalisation by legalistic and unspiritual interpretation, which has only progressed to alienate people from true supernatural Christianity.

 

[JonC]

The bronze serpent was sort out if people were bitten by snakes and they were healed by looking upon it.
So God established an object as a subordinate source of His healing Grace.



Wrong. The Ark of the Covenant for one. People couldn’t touch it, it was so Holy.
The Sacred vessels in the temple were holy, only the priests could handle these as well.

You say this from desupernatuarlised legalistic Christianity. You don’t have Holy objects.

You don’t believe objects can be made holy by the Word of God and prayer as scripture states, this is not a spirituality in your tradition.
Your tradition condemns relics, and would have condemned the bringing of Paul’s handkerchiefs and aprons to the sick and possessed, calling it magic.

Catholics Invoke the Holy Name God in thanksgiving and recite scripture over and add our prayer intention over meals, that this food will benefit us in mind and body. This food is now Holy, Sanctified by Grace.

Why is it Holy? By Grace, Grace makes it Holy, when we speak The Holy Name, The Word, and our prayer over it.

That’s why protestants constantly sneer at Catholics on Holy Water, they are totally ignorant that an object can be made Holy by The Holy Name, The Word of God and Prayer as scripture states.



Legalistic Christianity when it encounters true supernatural Christianity, calls it pagan. The supernatural is automatically superstition, Grace is automatically “ magic “.

The Altar of ascensions (Exodus 29:37),

The Altar of incense (Exodus 30:10),

The tent, the Ark, the table of showbread, the lampstand, the laver (Exodus 30:29),

The incense (Exodus 30:36).

“And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations.
Upon man's flesh shall it not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you.” Exodus 30:31-32.

All Holy by Grace.

Catholics understand Grace in its spiritual and scriptural meaning.

Lawyers like Luther and Calvin set the mould of desupernaturalisation by legalistic and unspiritual interpretation, which has only progressed to alienate people from true supernatural Christianity.

Those do not represent God putting His grace into objects.

Read those passages again.

Nobody is talking about desupernaturalisation. We are talking about idolatry vs going to God.

 

[Cathode]

Those do not represent God putting His grace into objects.

Read those passages again.

Nobody is talking about desupernaturalisation. We are talking about idolatry vs going to God.

So the incidents involving Paul’s handkerchiefs and aprons was idolatry?

The bronze serpent was ordered by God to heal the people who looked on it. It was a subordinate source of healing Grace.

Whilst the Israelites used it as such, it was perfectly fine.

Only later did it have to be destroyed it because some started to worship it, which is correct.

Ignorance of what idolatry actually is, is the problem.