The Biblical Basis of 10 Catholic Distinctives

[JonC]

So the incidents involving Paul’s handkerchiefs and aprons was idolatry?

No. Not in Scripture and not if Jesus' words were correct.

The Catholic view of Paul's hankerchief is idolatry. They view the cloth itself as endowed by God's healing grace.

Same with the bronze serpent. Rather than looking upon the serpent as an act of obedience in faith foreshadowing Christ, a Catholic who sees those people being healed by the bronze serpent being endowed by God's grace is practicing idolatry.

The difference is not what happened, or God's healing. The difference is that Catholics practice paganism rather than Christianity when it comes to these things. That is how they understand Scripture because their faith is a type of "christian paganism".

That is also why most Catholics will never be able to exprence the depth of the "spiritual realm", the depth of God's grace, or the depth of Scripture. They hold a very shallow spirituality and seek out subordinates when they could experience God first hand.

 

[Cathode]

No. Not in Scripture and not if Jesus' words were correct.

The Catholic view of Paul's hankerchief is idolatry. They view the cloth itself as endowed by God's healing grace.

That’s not idolatry. This is pure ignorance.

Idolatry is making sacrifice to the object as a god of itself.

It’s ignorance like this, and perhaps prejudice that seem endemic with you guys, you can’t see right, nor judge right.

Same with the bronze serpent. Rather than looking upon the serpent as an act of obedience in faith foreshadowing Christ, a Catholic who sees those people being healed by the bronze serpent being endowed by God's grace is practicing idolatry.

Wrong.

Why was the bronze serpent destroyed? Because people burnt incense to it, this was a sacrificial offering meant only for God.
Making sacrifice to the object is idolatry.

Catholics have never made sacrifice to objects or relics.

 

[Cathode]

That is also why most Catholics will never be able to exprence the depth of the "spiritual realm", the depth of God's grace, or the depth of Scripture. They hold a very shallow spirituality and seek out subordinates when they could experience God first hand.

Paul himself was subordinate, should people have gone to him for healing prayer and not God first hand?

“As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on cots and mats, so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by.”

Why did people seek out the subordinate Apostles for healing and not go to God first hand ?

 

[JonC]

That’s not idolatry. This is pure ignorance.

Idolatry is making sacrifice to the object as a god of itself.

It’s ignorance like this, and perhaps prejudice that seem endemic with you guys, you can’t see right, nor judge right.



Wrong.

Why was the bronze serpent destroyed? Because people burnt incense to it, this was a sacrificial offering meant only for God.
Making sacrifice to the object is idolatry.

Catholics have never made sacrifice to objects or relics.

One does not have to sacrifice to an object for that object to be an idol. All one has to do is treat that object as endowed with divine power.

That is paganism. They viewed a god as endowering an object (often a stone or piece of jewelry) with a power (most often, to heal).

In the Christian religion this never the case. Paul's hankerchief, for example example, served to validate (a "testimony") of Paul's words. The healing was not seized because a person touched the hankerchief but because of the act of faith itself.

Catholics misinterpret Scripture because they hold a faith that is an amalgamation of Christianity and paganism.

They never realize that they have chosen a poor substitute by choosing subordinate objects (idols).

 

[JonC]

Paul himself was subordinate, should people have gone to him for healing prayer and not God first hand?

“As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on cots and mats, so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by.”

Why did people seek out the subordinate Apostles for healing and not go to God first hand ?

You prove my point. Paul never claims to be the object of healing.

God does gift people with spiritual gifts. These people are not subordinates but members of the body of Christ.

When Peter healed he was function as a member of Christ's body (Jesus being the Source, and the healing by faith, as a testimony or "witness" of Peter's words).

Catholics are "Christian pagans". They have a religion that is Roman paganism read into Scripture.

This is why Catholics confess sins to a priest rather than obeying Scripture, seek forgiveness from a priest rather than Christ, actively engage in idolatry, hold a pagan Euchrast, pray to saints, create unbiblical doctrines about Mary, and are focused on earthly ritualistic worship.

They originated as pagans, converted to Christianity, and like every other group compelled to a faith created not only a mythology but also clothed paganism in that new faith.

The good news is the gospel is there, beneath all of the paganism, in such a way that Catholics can also be Christian despite their doctrine.

The bad news is they can never experience the depth of our faith or of Scripture while the pagan idolatry remains as they choose substitutes for the genuine article.

Catholic Christians are our weaker breathern. But we should not encourage their paganism simply to be nice. That is not kindness as they can never move from a shallow faith in the Living God while clinging to paganism and poor substitutes.

 

[Mikoo]

So the incidents involving Paul’s handkerchiefs and aprons was idolatry?

The bronze serpent was ordered by God to heal the people who looked on it. It was a subordinate source of healing Grace.

Whilst the Israelites used it as such, it was perfectly fine.

Only later did it have to be destroyed it because some started to worship it, which is correct.

Ignorance of what idolatry actually is, is the problem.

The rc denomination is a prime example of this problem.

 

[Cathode]

One does not have to sacrifice to an object for that object to be an idol. All one has to do is treat that object as endowed with divine power.

That is paganism. They viewed a god as endowering an object (often a stone or piece of jewelry) with a power (most often, to heal).

No, idolatry viewed the object itself as a God, with its own powers, and make sacrifices to it, as worship. Not a holy object graced by God, to be subordinate source of God’s healing Grace.

This is the ignorance and wrong understanding of Scripture I’m talking about.

“He did right in the sight of the Lord, according to all that his father David had done. He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan. 2 Kings 18:3-4

So whilst the object was viewed as a source of God’s own healing Grace, it was fine. It was established for that.
It’s only when sacrifices were made to it as a god of itself, that it became an idol, and they idolatrous.

In the Christian religion this never the case. Paul's hankerchief, for example example, served to validate (a "testimony") of Paul's words. The healing was not seized because a person touched the hankerchief but because of the act of faith itself.

That’s right, people touched the handkerchief in faith and received God’s grace of healing and deliverance through it.

Catholics misinterpret Scripture because they hold a faith that is an amalgamation of Christianity and paganism.

They never realize that they have chosen a poor substitute by choosing subordinate objects (idols).

So clearly God conveyed His own Grace through objects, and on touching them in faith people received that Grace of healing and deliverance.

 

[Cathode]

You prove my point. Paul never claims to be the object of healing.

God does gift people with spiritual gifts. These people are not subordinates but members of the body of Christ.

When Peter healed he was function as a member of Christ's body (Jesus being the Source, and the healing by faith, as a testimony or "witness" of Peter's words).

All members of the body of Christ are subordinate to the Head.

Never claimed Paul was the source of healing, God’s Grace was given him and people received God’s healing Grace through Paul. Just like people received God’s healing Grace through Paul’s handkerchief touching it in faith.

Catholics are "Christian pagans". They have a religion that is Roman paganism read into Scripture.

Your calling Catholics pagans is false, sinful and answerable. Pagans worshipped demons and Satan, it is totally disgusting and false for you to accuse us of this. You know it’s a lie.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

This thread will sequentially discuss the biblical underpinnings of these 10 Catholic distinctives:

ACTUALLY;
This thread will sequentially discuss 10 purely Non-Biblical Heretical Demon-Inspired ABOMINABLE Catholic distinctives:
(1) Holy Water
(2) Holy Relics
(3) Prayer to Saints
(4) Catholic Mariology
(5) Priestly Confession and Absolution
(6) Infant Baptism
(7) Transubstantiation/ Real Presence
(8) Purgatory
(9) Catholic Doctrine of Justification
(10) Catholic View of Scripture and Tradition[/QUOTE]

 

[Cathode]

ACTUALLY;
This thread will sequentially discuss 10 purely Non-Biblical Heretical Demon-Inspired ABOMINABLE Catholic distinctives:
(1) Holy Water
(2) Holy Relics
(3) Prayer to Saints
(4) Catholic Mariology
(5) Priestly Confession and Absolution
(6) Infant Baptism
(7) Transubstantiation/ Real Presence
(8) Purgatory
(9) Catholic Doctrine of Justification
(10) Catholic View of Scripture and Tradition

We have reached point 2 and so far proved these Scriptural.

 

[Oseas3]

ACTUALLY;
This thread will sequentially discuss 10 purely Non-Biblical Heretical Demon-Inspired ABOMINABLE Catholic distinctives:
(1) Holy Water
(2) Holy Relics
(3) Prayer to Saints
(4) Catholic Mariology
(5) Priestly Confession and Absolution
(6) Infant Baptism
(7) Transubstantiation/ Real Presence
(8) Purgatory
(9) Catholic Doctrine of Justification
(10) Catholic View of Scripture and Tradition

Yes, very very very true.

The battle is and will be against the Beast of sea, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his horns 10 crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:3 -> 3 And I saw one of his (7) heads as it were WOUNDED to death; and his deadly WOUND was healed:and ALL THE WORLD wondered(will wound) after the Beast.->after the Beast of sea having 7 heads and...

Soon there will be TWO TERRIBLE AND SATANIC BEASTS WORKING AROUND THE WORLD

1- The ARCHAIC Beast of sea, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his(10) horns ten crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy (Revelation 13:1),--> with his satanic headquarter in Rome-Vatican City;

2 - The Beast of the earth, having two horns like a lamb( a false lamb, a Jewish false messiah, an esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist messiah-John 5:43-47 and 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12), and he speaks as dragon. And he(will) exercise all the power of the first Beast(of the Beast of sea-the Papacy) before him, and (will) causeth the earth(Israel) and them which dwell therein to worship the first Beast(the Beast of sea),whose deadly WOUND was(will be) healed.->Revelation 13:11-12. How was(will be) it healed?
Well, the dragon, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, will give to the Pope(to the next and last Pope to be elected) his Power, and his Throne (in the Great City-Jerusalem), and great Authority-Revelation 13:2 combined with Revelation 11:2) NOTE: The spiritual and physical estructures of the RCC will be the dragon's main partner, actually, the dragon will swallow as a whole the spiritual and physical estructures of the RCC-Revelation 12:3, take a look.

Revelation 13:14-> And deceiveth(will deceive) them that dwell on the earth(Israel) by the means of those miracles which he had(has) power to do in the sight of the Beast(the Beast of sea); saying to them that dwell on(Israel) the earth, that they should make an image to the Beast, which had the WOUND by a Sword, and did live.

Get ready

There will be TWO TERRIBLE AND SATANIC BEASTS WORKING AROUND THE WORLD not so far from these current days. There will be persecutions against true believers, false believers will believe in the false messiah above described.

Be careful

 

[JonC]

We have reached point 2 and so far proved these Scriptural.

In truth you have not.

The argument for holy water had absolutely no connection to the passages offered.

A man was submerged in the Jordan River 7 times and remained unclean until evening.

Jesus made mud with spittle.

The argument for relics was also void of substance (Paul's hankerchief, Peter's shadow) as they completely ignored the point of the passage and Jesus' own words.


Catholics, just like all other instances where a pagan culture adopts Christianity via a governing body, kept their paganism and used Scripture to make it "biblical".

 

[Cathode]

In truth you have not.

The argument for holy water had absolutely no connection to the passages offered.

A man was submerged in the Jordan River 7 times and remained unclean until evening.

Jesus made mud with spittle.

“[A]nd the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.” Numbers 5:17

Our priests use holy water as well in the New Covenant priesthood.

Holy water is Scriptural whether you like it or not.

The argument for relics was also void of substance (Paul's hankerchief, Peter's shadow) as they completely ignored the point of the passage and Jesus' own words.
Catholics, just like all other instances where a pagan culture adopts Christianity via a governing body, kept their paganism and used Scripture to make it "biblical".

It’s Israelite cultural origins that you are alienated from, not pagan.

The Laver, The Lampstand, Altar, Sacred vessels and Tabernacle, Holy water, Incense, these are all from Israelite Jewish culture, not pagan. All this is in the Catholic Church.
It is the continuation of God’s desired way of worship in the New Covenant.

 

[Oseas3]

There is not even a shred of evidence that the Catholic use of Holy Water was borrowed from paganism,
and even if it did, its grounding in biblical teaching and precedent is sufficient to validate its use, especially since God uses it to perform miracles like exorcism when evangelical efforts to do so fail miserably, as my prior post demonstrates.I ndeed, the celebration is Holy Communion is influecned by pagan mystery religions, but the Christian development of this practice protects it from dismissal as a pagan ritual.

The idolatry and the worship/service of demons in primitive Churches as Paul Apostle warned:

1 Corinthians 10:14-15 and 19-21 - 55 AD, written in Macedonia
14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.
19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

1Timothy 4:1-2 - – 64 AD, written in Macedonia or Rome, shortly before Paul’s 2nd imprisonment;

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

The birthplace, or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how:
The Antichrist was born and rose up from the own Church-See how

Let 2025 come and let us prepare to enter and face the final environment of the last week of the Devil's world, and the establishment of the fifth universal Devil's kingdom, the Antichrist's kingdom, and also in the middle of this last week the Abomination of Desolation-Daniel 9:27-, this satanic Kingdom is represented and described by allegory in the feet and ten toes of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, part of iron and part of clay, according to Daniel 2v.41-45. Take a look.

In the fifth universal empire of the Devil, the universal empire of Antichrist, two satanic Beasts will be reigning on Earth, a Gentile Beast and a Jewish Beast, both represented literally in Revelation 13, first as the Beast that rose out of the sea, rose from among the nations, from among the peoples, it rose precisely in Italy more or less 2000 years ago still in the Roman Empire, and the second Beast, the Beast that will still rise from the Earth in this current time, precisely in Israel -Jerusalem- the holy city- this Beast will sit on his own throne as if he was God, claiming to be the messiah, actually an IMPOSTER, a false Christ, -Matthew 24:23-, as JESUS warned us, and the false messiah will exalt himself as if he is God, but he is a man-the MAN of sin- , father of the Jews-John 8:44- , not God.

Get ready

 

[JonC]

“[A]nd the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.” Numbers 5:17

Our priests use holy water as well in the New Covenant priesthood.

Holy water is Scriptural whether you like it or not.



It’s Israelite cultural origins that you are alienated from, not pagan.

The Laver, The Lampstand, Altar, Sacred vessels and Tabernacle, Holy water, Incense, these are all from Israelite Jewish culture, not pagan. All this is in the Catholic Church.
It is the continuation of God’s desired way of worship in the New Covenant.

You are wrong.

1. Catholics do not use holy water as is described in Numbers.

2. The priesthood was fulfilled in the New Covenant. Jesus is our High Priest and Christians are the priesthood.


Catholics blended Roman paganism with Christianity. They point to the OT to justify paganism which does mot remotely resemble the practices in Scripture.

Look at the passage you use to justify the Catholic pagan practice:


Then the priest shall bring her near and have her stand before the Lord, and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. ‘The priest shall then have the woman stand before the Lord and let the hair of the woman’s head go loose, and place the grain offering of memorial in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy, and in the hand of the priest is to be the water of bitterness that brings a curse. ‘The priest shall have her take an oath and shall say to the woman, “If no man has lain with you and if you have not gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse; if you, however, have gone astray, being under the authority of your husband, and if you have defiled yourself and a man other than your husband has had intercourse with you”


IF Catholics used holy water as was used under the Moasic Law THEN they would be using it to judge the faithfulness of women. The priest would mix it with dust, she would vow and drink it, and if unfaithful she would be barren.

One issue is this was done under the Mosaic Law.

But the bigger issue is this is NOT the Catholic holy water. Catholics use holy water as the Greek and Roman pagan cults used holy water (water blessed by priests of a pagan god, sprinkled for purity or blessing).


Can Catholics find terms in Scripture similar to their pagan rituals? Absolutely.

BUT they cannot find actual practices.

 

[JonC]

More to the point - what does Catholic paganism add? Nothing. It takes away and corrupts.

Christians experience healing from God. Catholics seek out stones, pieces of wood, bits of rags.

That is the Catholic faith. When they have the opportunity to experience the depths of spiritual life they turn to broken pieces of wood and rags. And they are deceived into believing they are better for that substitute.

They have a chance to commune with the King but instead prefer to gaze in wonder at a rag He discarded.

Catholicism itself is a broad path, and there are sights to see, but its ultimate destination is death. Thankfully some are saved despite Catholic doctrine.

 

[Cathode]

You are wrong.

1. Catholics do not use holy water as is described in Numbers.

2. The priesthood was fulfilled in the New Covenant. Jesus is our High Priest and Christians are the priesthood.


Catholics blended Roman paganism with Christianity. They point to the OT to justify paganism which does mot remotely resemble the practices in Scripture.

Look at the passage you use to justify the Catholic pagan practice:


Then the priest shall bring her near and have her stand before the Lord, and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. ‘The priest shall then have the woman stand before the Lord and let the hair of the woman’s head go loose, and place the grain offering of memorial in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy, and in the hand of the priest is to be the water of bitterness that brings a curse. ‘The priest shall have her take an oath and shall say to the woman, “If no man has lain with you and if you have not gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse; if you, however, have gone astray, being under the authority of your husband, and if you have defiled yourself and a man other than your husband has had intercourse with you”


IF Catholics used holy water as was used under the Moasic Law THEN they would be using it to judge the faithfulness of women. The priest would mix it with dust, she would vow and drink it, and if unfaithful she would be barren.

One issue is this was done under the Mosaic Law.

But the bigger issue is this is NOT the Catholic holy water. Catholics use holy water as the Greek and Roman pagan cults used holy water (water blessed by priests of a pagan god, sprinkled for purity or blessing).


Can Catholics find terms in Scripture similar to their pagan rituals? Absolutely.

BUT they cannot find actual practices.

 

[Cathode]

You are wrong.

1. Catholics do not use holy water as is described in Numbers.

No we don’t. Under the New Covenant we use holy water differently.

The priesthood was fulfilled in the New Covenant. Jesus is our High Priest and Christians are the priesthood.

Catholics blended Roman paganism with Christianity. They point to the OT to justify paganism which does mot remotely resemble the practices in Scripture.

Look at the passage you use to justify the Catholic pagan practice:

IF Catholics used holy water as was used under the Moasic Law THEN they would be using it to judge the faithfulness of women. The priest would mix it with dust, she would vow and drink it, and if unfaithful she would be barren.

One issue is this was done under the Mosaic Law.

But the bigger issue is this is NOT the Catholic holy water. Catholics use holy water as the Greek and Roman pagan cults used holy water (water blessed by priests of a pagan god, sprinkled for purity or blessing).

The Holy water is blessed in The Name of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit.
Is this the pagan god you are referring to?

You go too far.

Did pagans bless their water in The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

 

[Cathode]

Holy water font older than Protestantism or Baptist’s. Church entry.

Israelite Laver at entry.

 

[David Lamb]

Holy water font older than Protestantism or Baptist’s. Church entry.

Israelite Laver at entry.

If that is an argument against immersion, in the bible we read about John baptizing in a place where there was "much water". We also read of the person being baptized going down into the water:

“So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.” (Ac 8:38 NKJV)

So although there were no "baptist churches," it certainly seems that baptism in New Testament times was by immersion.