The Biblical Basis of 10 Catholic Distinctives

[David Lamb]

The Ark contained the Ten Commandments, The Word of God. Jesus is The Word of God.
The Ark contained the Rod of Aaron, The High Priests Authority, Jesus is High Priest with all Authority.
The Ark contained the Manna from Heaven provided by God, Jesus is The Bread of Life, the New Manna from Heaven.

In Jesus, Mary contained all three at the Incarnation. The Word, The High Priest, The Bread of Life.

“And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all thingswhich I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.”

Jesus meets with mankind in Mary at the Incarnation.

Just as the Ark was overshadowed by the shekinah glory at Gods manifestation to Israel, Mary is overshadowed by the Holy Spirit at God’s manifestation to all mankind, Jesus, God Incarnate, God with us.

Mary’s life is marked by angels at the angel at the annunciation and at the Resurrection. Between these two Jesus gave His commands to all mankind.

The Ark of the Covenant was the foreshadowing of Mary and the full manifestation of God to mankind in Jesus.

I would say that ark, like much in the Old Testament, was the foreshadowing of Jesus Christ, not of Mary. If Christians were supposed to view Mary as the ark of the New Covenant, it is surprising in the extreme that in all the epistles, there is not one mention of such a thing, which if true would be very important. No, the epistles point to Christ.

 

[Cathode]

I would say that ark, like much in the Old Testament, was the foreshadowing of Jesus Christ, not of Mary.

The Ark is a created thing, and Mary is a creature. God is Uncreated but manifested with the Ark.
The Ark was a porthole between the created and Uncreated world’s.

Jesus came to us through Mary.

In this we see both Covenants drawn together in beauty and symmetry.

If Christians were supposed to view Mary as the ark of the New Covenant, it is surprising in the extreme that in all the epistles, there is not one mention of such a thing, which if true would be very important. No, the epistles point to Christ.

Luke gives the indication of Mary’s role and identity as the Ark, when matched with Samuel.

But over all is the roles these Arks play is the best indicator of the link between them. They were the means by which God would manifest Himself to the world. But also the role of the Arks at the Great Atonement sacrifices in the Old Covenant and New Covenant.

 

[Cathode]

I'm sorry you think my understanding of Scripture is profane.

Profane in this sense means, those to whom it is not given to understand.

 

[Oseas3]

Did it sort of look like this.

The Arks of the Covenants are heavily involved in the Genuine worship of God.

Mary is The Ark of The New Covenant.

The Ark of the Covenant is not worshipped, it is venerated as the Seat and Throne and Sanctuary of God on Earth, in the Old Covenant and New Covenant.

GOD IS A DEVOURING FIRE. GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE.

The SATANIC and CURSED or CURSED and SATANIC idolatry of the man-made devilish pictures above posted, and pictures of ALL defuncts beatified by Popes, Filli of Devil, knowing that around the idolater pictures a legion of spirit of demons are circuling them to attract people to venerate and worship them, and through this DEMONIC idolatry the people are drawn away and are delivered them to the king of darkness, the MAN of sin, the Old Serpent, the father of the Jews-John 8:44, murderers of the true prophets of GOD, and murderers of JESUS who is now sat at the right hand of GOD Father, whom they rejected as Messiah.

Then now will come the false messiah, an ESOTERIC and KABBALISTIC and SPIRITIST messiah, the MAN of sin, the Devil, in LITERAL fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, and the souls of all idolaters of all religions, CURSED BY MY LORD JESUS, go toward the hell's fire by the Power of my GOD and Father-Matthew 10:26-27, prepared for the Devil and his followers, as said JESUS-Matthew 25:41and 46, and also Isaiah, the true pophet of my GOD, as is written: Isaiah 33:14-14:

13 Hear, ye that are far off(the Gentile peopes),what I have done; and, ye that are near(the JEWS), acknowledge my might.

14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Get ready

The spiritist Catholicism which invokes and pray and worship defuncts beatified by Popes, and the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism, what both religious system practice are all ministered according to the father of the Jews - John 8:44.

Get ready

GOD IS A DEVOURING FIRE. GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE.

Get ready - Matthew 10:27-28

 

[Oseas3]

How idolatry? If the handkerchiefs and aprons were merely endowed with God’s Grace and taken as such.

You seem to be receding into the cessationist argument that God only did miracles in the Apostolic age exclusively to testify to word preached.
However, miracles have always testified to the words preached. Paul was absent at these incidents of healing and deliverance apparently.
To me, these miracles were more down the mercy of God for sick and possessed people.
So it’s not exclusively down to validation of the preaching, but God’s mercy and love healing the sick and possessed.
You can take the legalistic exclusivist route saying miracles were only for validation of preaching, but I say both, and that God also does miracles because He Loves and has compassion for people.

I can witness to this, to this very day.

You forget that Jesus Himself sent subordinates the Apostles, and the Apostles sent their subordinates.

In fact we are all subordinates to The Head in The Body of Christ.

Why do we go out in street ministry? Why can’t these people go directly to Jesus to heal their addictions and problems.?

I only go to where I am sent, and anyone sent to me is sent by Jesus. Jesus heals and delivers through us His subordinates who He has sent.

What did Paul say to the believers in the Church of Corinth? Paul Apostle said : 2 Corinthians 11:12-15 --> 12 What I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion wherein they glory...13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for SATAN himself is transformed into an angel of light. (the light is the Word of GOD)

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his MINISTERS(Ministers of Satan, like the idolater ministers of the RCC) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose END shall be according to their works.

Get ready, yeah, get ready - Revelation 12:7

THE WAR IS AGAINST THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS?

Revelation 16:v.13 to 16
1 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast, and out of the mouth of the False Prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Ar - mag - eddon.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS? | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net )

 

[Cathode]

GOD IS A DEVOURING FIRE. GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE.

The SATANIC and CURSED or CURSED and SATANIC idolatry of the man-made devilish pictures above posted, and pictures of ALL defuncts beatified by Popes, Filli of Devil, knowing that around the idolater pictures a legion of spirit of demons are circuling them to attract people to venerate and worship them, and through this DEMONIC idolatry the people are drawn away and are delivered them to the king of darkness, the MAN of sin, the Old Serpent, the father of the Jews-John 8:44, murderers of the true prophets of GOD, and murderers of JESUS who is now sat at the right hand of GOD Father, whom they rejected as Messiah.

Then now will come the false messiah, an ESOTERIC and KABBALISTIC and SPIRITIST messiah, the MAN of sin, the Devil, in LITERAL fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, and the souls of all idolaters of all religions, CURSED BY MY LORD JESUS, go toward the hell's fire by the Power of my GOD and Father-Matthew 10:26-27, prepared for the Devil and his followers, as said JESUS-Matthew 25:41and 46, and also Isaiah, the true pophet of my GOD, as is written: Isaiah 33:14-14:

13 Hear, ye that are far off(the Gentile peopes),what I have done; and, ye that are near(the JEWS), acknowledge my might.

14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Get ready

The spiritist Catholicism which invokes and pray and worship defuncts beatified by Popes, and the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism, what both religious system practice are all ministered according to the father of the Jews - John 8:44.

Get ready

GOD IS A DEVOURING FIRE. GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE.

Get ready - Matthew 10:27-28

Mate, are you on the spectrum or something? Not making fun here either. Your posts are rather gratuitous.

 

[JonC]

Profane in this sense means, those to whom it is not given to understand.

This is my concern with Catholic doctrine.

I know I argue strongly here against the Catholic Church. That is for a reason. I am aware of Catholics who are Christian.

My concern is that I view Jesus' return as closer today than it was yesterday.

It is time more Christians realize that Scripture is given for all Christians to understand. It is time that Christians toss away their idols (whether holy water, relics, politics, social justice) and turn back to God.


We will not make this world better through secular politics.

We cannot replace God with subordinate things we think hold His grace or power.

We have been invited to participate in His Kingdom.


Many are. Many enter and engage in the Spiritual realm through the Spirit. But many are content with trying to catch glimpses in subordinate things.

There is a deeper faith than Catholics will allow. There is a deeper faith than those who put their hands to the plow but then look back can know.

 

[Oseas3]

Mate, are you on the spectrum or something? Not making fun here either. Your posts are rather gratuitous.

What does the Word of GOD say? Revelation 11:15-18

15...The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD (WORLD OF THE DEVIL) are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations (ALL NATIONS, INCLUDE ISRAEL) were(WILL BE) angry, and GOD's WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 12:9-12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was(WILL BE) cast out into the earth, and his messengers were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven(heaven? Ephesiqans 1:3-8), Now is come salvation, and strength, and the Kingdom of our GOD, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens(heavens? Ephesians 1:3-8), and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Get ready

 

[Cathode]

This is my concern with Catholic doctrine.

I know I argue strongly here against the Catholic Church. That is for a reason. I am aware of Catholics who are Christian.

My concern is that I view Jesus' return as closer today than it was yesterday.

It is time more Christians realize that Scripture is given for all Christians to understand. It is time that Christians toss away their idols (whether holy water, relics, politics, social justice) and turn back to God.


We will not make this world better through secular politics.

We cannot replace God with subordinate things we think hold His grace or power.

We have been invited to participate in His Kingdom.


Many are. Many enter and engage in the Spiritual realm through the Spirit. But many are content with trying to catch glimpses in subordinate things.

There is a deeper faith than Catholics will allow. There is a deeper faith than those who put their hands to the plow but then look back can know.

Jon, I know you mean well. But I don’t think you have the full picture, and you are way off in weeds with your Catholic “ paganism “ idea.

Yes, we are in the Apocalypse now, and Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant will become obvious to you as the intensity increases and final battle approaches.

 

[Oseas3]

(10) Proof of Pre Trib Rapture | Page 11 | Christian Forums
Posts 201 to 204


Revelation 20:1-6

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Cathode]

“Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance.”

This is why we follow the Apostolic understanding of Scripture not the human founded traditions conflicted interpretations of Scripture.

 

[Oseas3]

“Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance.”

This is why we follow the Apostolic understanding of Scripture not the human founded traditions conflicted interpretations of Scripture.

What I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion wherein they glory...
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for SATAN himself is transformed into an angel of light. (the light is the Word of GOD)
Therefore it is no great thing if his MINISTERS(Ministers of Satan, like the idolater ministers of the RCC) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose END shall be according to their works. 2Cor.11:15-

Revelation 18:7-21 to be LITERALLY fulfilled from now on:
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8), and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea(where is the Beast of sea; sea =peoples, and NATIONS, and multitudes of azll tongues-Revelation 17:15), saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

 

[Cathode]

What I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion wherein they glory...
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for SATAN himself is transformed into an angel of light. (the light is the Word of GOD)
Therefore it is no great thing if his MINISTERS(Ministers of Satan, like the idolater ministers of the RCC) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose END shall be according to their works. 2Cor.11:15-

Revelation 18:7-21 to be LITERALLY fulfilled from now on:
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8), and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea(where is the Beast of sea; sea =peoples, and NATIONS, and multitudes of azll tongues-Revelation 17:15), saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Mate. Try the less is more approach. A lot less.

 

[JonC]

Jon, I know you mean well. But I don’t think you have the full picture, and you are way off in weeds with your Catholic “ paganism “ idea.

Yes, we are in the Apocalypse now, and Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant will become obvious to you as the intensity increases and final battle approaches.

I am not "in the weeds" here. I would argue that you are as you ate in the middle of Catholicism and unable to see beyond its folage.

I, personally, like the ritualistic aspects of Catholicism. But that is from a humanistic side (I find it appealing).

The reason I know that the Catholic church adopted Roman paganism is not for studying the Catholic church but from 1st studying Roman (and ANE) paganism.

The connection is obvious to anybody who have studied cults growing out of an imposed faith. Every time we get an amalgamation of the new and old faiths.

The readon I know that Catholicism is Christianity mixed with Roman paganism is I know many practices were foreign to the earliest church but common among Roman cults. And they are identical to Catholic practices with the exception of themes.


That you consider Mary as being the Ark of the New Covenant is very telling.

The early church did not pray to Mary, pray to saints, or consider Mary as being anything except blessed among women for being chosen to bear Jesus.



The veneration of Mary is a 5th Century AD theological concept.

The idea that Mary was sinless until after the conception is a late 4th century AD idea (Ambrose).

The perpetual virginity of Mary is a 6th century AD concept.


The idea that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant is a misrepresentation of 4th century writings referring to Mary as the "ark" of the Lord (she carried the unborn Christ). The theological developments that would occur throughout the developmemt of the Catholic Church cast those words in a much different light.


My advice to you is the same I offer to those Pritestants who maintain too much Catholicism in their theology.

It isn't to trash your faith.

It is to temporarily pause your theology and reason Scripture as if your theology was wrong. Read what is written in Scripture without what you believe should be there.

 

[JonC]

@Cathode

Look at it this way -

One may seek out a relic endowed by God's healing grace in order to be healed.

One could, instead, seek out God Himself, perhaps an encounter in the body of Christ, and obtain that grace.

Why should one seek a relic?

Same with praying for a saint to intercede on our behalf. Why should I pray that a saint be a mediator when I already have Christ as a mediator?

Why seek out a priest, or do penance, when I sin since I can confess before the congregation, repent, and be forgiven by Chriat Himself?


It just seems that all of those subordinate things Catholics have added end up being detractors to those who have faith enough to call the Father "Abba".

 

[JonC]

Oh.... @Cathode

A side question....unrelated.

I have a friend who's mom is in the hospital in critical care (in NC). She wants her priest to visit and give her last rites (yes, they are Catholic).

But the priest will only give rites by appointment and at the church (he no longer is willing to visit the hospital).

My understanding is the hospital has a minister who does this (I take it tge readon the priest wont go), but she only wants her priest.

Is this common, and what advise would you give her?

He asked me what I'd do, and being a Baptist I couldn't offer an opinion. I have known ministers who didn't visit the sick as they should, often assigning the task to deacons, but they were few and an entirely different issue.


Believe it or not I am really nice to Catholics, Presbyterians, Muslims, and atheists, and even other Baptists in person.

 

[Oseas3]

Mate. Try the less is more approach. A lot less.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

My Lord JESUS said and made it very clear : Luke 19:26-27 --> 26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be GIVEN; and from him that hath not, even that he hath SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM. And He Himself also ordained : 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them BEFORE ME.

Every religious men who work for the satanic Beast of sea, the Papacy, the main partner of the red Dragon with his 7 heads and 10 horns, that Old Serpent, the Devil and Satan- Revelation 12:9- , all kind of evangelical sects, and also the modern and devilish pseudo-Christian movements called gospel , among others, will be Judged by the Word of GOD and cast down into the fire and will be burned with everlasting fire. 2Peter 3:7--> But the heavens (heavens?Ephesians 1:3-8) and the earth(ISRAEL), which are now, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against this Day of Judgment (the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium) and perdition of ungodly men.

Romans 2:5-12
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself WRATH against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.

GOD and JESUS my Lord, made it very clear saying: I will give power unto my two witnesses, these have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy(as is happening in Brazil): and have power over waters to turn them (peoples, and NATIONS, and multitudes of all tongues) to blood, and to SMITE the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

 

[Cathode]

I am not "in the weeds" here. I would argue that you are as you ate in the middle of Catholicism and unable to see beyond its folage.

I, personally, like the ritualistic aspects of Catholicism. But that is from a humanistic side (I find it appealing).

The reason I know that the Catholic church adopted Roman paganism is not for studying the Catholic church but from 1st studying Roman (and ANE) paganism.

The connection is obvious to anybody who have studied cults growing out of an imposed faith. Every time we get an amalgamation of the new and old faiths.

The readon I know that Catholicism is Christianity mixed with Roman paganism is I know many practices were foreign to the earliest church but common among Roman cults. And they are identical to Catholic practices with the exception of themes.

You have presented zero evidence of this supposed amalgamation of paganism and Catholicism.
If you read Constantine, you see a total separation of the two, they were starkly incompatible with each other.
You have the testimony of the Apostolic Fathers on the Eucharist which you deny and persist in calling it pagan. And all the Churches for first 1500 years believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
You deny the regeneration of Baptism, which again was unanimously believed by all the Churches for the first 1500 years and even among the reformers.

You deny the perpetual virginity which again all churches unanimously believed for the first 1500 years and even the reformers.

You deny it by your human founded traditions interpretation of Scripture. Why is your interpretation of scripture better all the Fathers, Councils and all Christianity for the first 1500 years.
Don’t claim Scripture as your authority, these witnesses preserved the scriptures , and determined the Bible in the first place.

All I see on your part is a litany of denials of the ancient Apostolic beliefs.

Zwingli was first denier of the Eucharistic real presence, and at the same time human traditions formed denying Baptismal regeneration. All on their impious opinions of scripture.

Who were these arrogant rebellious men to deny the beliefs of all preceding Christianity.

You are following the private interpretations of human founded traditions.

 

[JonC]

You have presented zero evidence of this supposed amalgamation of paganism and Catholicism.

Actually, I have.

Many of the Catholic practices (holy water, the way Catholics observe the Eucharist, the Catholic priesthood) are identical to Roman paganism while those practices did not exist within Christianity for the first century.

We see these things progressively becoming common within the Catholic Church as Christianity was essentially mandated on pagan religions.

Evidence is the practices themselves and history of compulsory faith.


How do you think we got from a "priesthood of believers" to returning to a pagan priesthood justified by the levitical priesthood....holy water as used in Scripture to holy water used as Roman cults used holy water.....the "Host" not as the Supper in Scripture but a Christianized form of Roman paganism that was the flesh and blood of the pagan god....praying to entities to intercede as pagans prayed for the intercession of gods...viewing relics as infused with God's power as pagans viewed idols as embodying the power of gods....?

The evidence is those things are foreign to Scripture. One has to start Catholic and then go to Scripture to justify the paganism (like the Jordan River being holy water, Paul's hankerchief being endowed by divine grace, etc.). It is impossible to go from God's Word to Catholicism.

 

[Cathode]

Oh.... @Cathode

A side question....unrelated.

I have a friend who's mom is in the hospital in critical care (in NC). She wants her priest to visit and give her last rites (yes, they are Catholic).

But the priest will only give rites by appointment and at the church (he no longer is willing to visit the hospital).

My understanding is the hospital has a minister who does this (I take it tge readon the priest wont go), but she only wants her priest.

Is this common, and what advise would you give her?

There should be Catholic Chaplin assigned to the hospital.

It is not important who the Catholic priest is, the important thing is that the Sacraments are administered. The Apostolic Judgement and Authority is the same regardless of who the priest is.

I wouldn’t fuss one second about having my favourite priest there. It’s nice, but many forget what’s most important, Confession, receiving Jesus in the Eucharist if possible, and Anointing is the point at that stage.

I wouldn’t hold out for the favourite priest. If he is a parish priest these days, he is the busiest man in the world.

Any Catholic Priest ASAP, in my cradle Catholic opinion.

He asked me what I'd do, and being a Baptist I couldn't offer an opinion. I have known ministers who didn't visit the sick as they should, often assigning the task to deacons, but they were few and an entirely different issue.

Many harrowing dramas in Catholic film and literature are based on the necessity of a priest in various circumstances of mortal peril.
The need to be shriven of a troubled conscience at the point of death, is the kind of stuff Shakespeare made hay of, and certainly Graham Greene.

But all these have a basis true situations. I remember one about a time during the Korean War when a North Korean soldier searched everywhere to finally capture a priest at gunpoint during the invasion of the South.
To the priests surprise the soldier asked the priest for Confession or he would blow the Priests head off, because the soldier could be killed at any time, either by the enemy or his own communist atheist government.
Then he made the most ardent confession of the most horrible sins he committed as soldier and was given absolution.

It would be hard to be a North Korean Catholic soldier at the best of times. It was the death penalty or gulag which is the death penalty anyway to be Christian in North Korea. The surprise was any existed.
So this North Korean soldier would have thanked his lucky stars ( so to speak ) to find any Catholic priest in those circumstances.

Generally and ordinarily all mortal sins are to be “committed to the keys of the Church” as Augustine says.

Outside of that with no priest available, a person must make a perfect act of contrition to be forgiven of these, only this does not carry the assurance of hearing the Apostolic Judgement that you are forgiven. And it’s hard for humans to do a perfect anything.

Also Father Damien of Molokai a leper colony was the only priest on the island. For fear of leprosy visiting ships could not receive him aboard and he had to make his confession from the tender where all the ship could hear it.

So in dire circumstances of mortal peril, any Catholic priest will do fine.

Believe it or not I am really nice to Catholics, Presbyterians, Muslims, and atheists, and even other Baptists in person.

I’m sorry to hear it mate, hang in there.