Featured The Biblical God

So, these are your thoughts? ..............

OK.

 

Thank you Icon for posting this. It has been... enlightening to say the least. I don't imagine it will be around for long before it's locked though. Some people just can't behave themselves.

 

If he is would it matter whether one worshiped him or not?

 

And even though all of Israel is called God's Elect, not all of Israel is saved. Election is for purpose, not for individual salvation.

 

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."(Jeremiah 31:31-34)


"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."(Hebrews 8:7-13)



What I quoted from your post is patently false. Only God's chosen, His redeemed, have His Laws written on their hearts.


"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."(Hebrews 10:16,17)



"Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:"(2 Corinthians 3:1-4)


Goats, non elects, will never have the Laws of God written in their heart and conscience....

 

"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"(2 Peter 1:10)

 

Sorry Willis, but Romans 2 tells us that men without law are a law unto themselves. Why? Because they have the law written upon their hearts and their conscience also bearing witness. This is why men from Adam to Moses who HAD NOT sinned after the similitude of Adam spiritually died, because they violated this law. Without law, sin is not imputed. (Rom 5:13-14)

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

This scripture is speaking of men "perishing". They are not saved. Yet they have the law written on their heart, in fact this is the very reason they perished.

If only regenerated persons have the law written on their hearts as you believe, then only regenerated persons who did not have written law perish according to Romans 2:12-15. That is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Brother Wes, it doesn't state they had the laws written upon their hearts when they perished. Where'd you pull that from? Men die on account of Adam. Those who died between Adam and Moses died without the law, correct. Yet, as Brother ArchAngel pointed out before, they died because Adam's sin spilled over to them, as it did us.

 

...............................................................

 

You're a quick study. :thumbsup:


Maybe I should follow suit. :laugh::smilewinkgrin:

 

Willis, the very reason men without the law perish is because the law is written on their hearts.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

Verse 12 is speaking of the Gentiles who did not have written law as opposed to the Jews who had the laws of Moses.

These Gentiles without the law PERISHED without the law. Why? Because the Gentiles which have not the law, DO BY NATURE, the things written in the law.

And why do they do that? Because they have the law written on their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness.

You can go to the most isolated jungles and find men who have never had contact with civilization, and they have laws. They know it is wrong to lie, and to steal, and to commit adultery, and to murder, etc... All men innately know what is right and wrong, and this is why all men are guilty before God and perish.

If your view is correct, and only regenerate men have the law written on their hearts, then only regenerate men would perish. Nonsense.

Sin is not imputed when there is no law Willis.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Again, sin is not imputed without law. But men from Adam to Moses died? Why? Because of Adam? NO, vs. 14 says they HAD NOT sinned after the similitude or likeness of Adam's sin. They did not eat the forbidden fruit being in Adam's loins as is falsely taught, vs. 14 refutes that.

No, men from Adam to Moses who did not have written law died because they violated the law written on their heart that Paul described in Romans 2:12-15.

Romans 5:14 is not teaching Original Sin because it only speaks of men from Adam to Moses. If Paul was teaching Original Sin, then it would extend to ALL MEN. The fact Paul speaks of men from Adam to Moses only PROVES he is not teaching Original Sin.

 

Willis, maybe Albert Barnes can explain Romans 2:12-15 better than I

First of all, you see that Paul was speaking of eternal spiritual death in verse 12 as I said earlier. This certainly is not speaking of regenerate men.

I skipped over some verses for brevity only, but as you see, men without law perish because by nature they have the law written on their heart. Men naturally know right from wrong.

And this is why men from Adam to Moses who DID NOT sin Adam's sin spiritually died, because they broke the law written on their heart.

Again, Paul could not have been teaching Original Sin in Romans 5:13-14, because he spoke of men from Adam to Moses ONLY. If he was teaching Original Sin (he wasn't) he would have spoken of ALL MEN.

 

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )"(Romans 2:12-15)


You have to remember Brother Wes that the Law wasn't given to the gentiles, at first. It was given to the Jews. Later on, after Christ arose and was seated, the gentiles got the promises promised to Abraham's seed. The gentiles that were shewing the works of the Law being written in their hearts shows they are part of God's redeemed. This was their way of expressing they were His, imo.

 

Willis, even Calvinist commentators disagree with you. Paul is showing that the Gentiles were guilty before God just like the Jews in Romans 2. Why? Because by nature they obeyed the law which showed they had the law written on their hearts. They were a law unto themselves.

But this is not speaking of regenerate men, these men are PERSHING, and as Albert Barnes showed, Paul was speaking of eternal spiritual death, not physical.

You are simply wrong Willis.

Here is what John Gill said concerning Rom 2:12

You see, Gill interprets this exactly the same as Barnes and myself. This is not speaking of saved regenerate men, but men who PERISH and go to hell.

 

You probably think this is an intelligent argument don't you?

And for you? Maybe it is.