The Birth and Nature of Christ

[DHK]

I do not deny God's Word. God's Word nowhere implies Mary's egg was used. To say it does is reading into the Word what is not there.

What is the use of posting Scripture if you refuse to believe them.

Bible declares Power of the Most High overshadowed and she conceived.

You admit she conceived. That means an egg was fertilized. Even if it was by the Holy Spirit miraculously--an egg was fertilized. As you said "she conceived." You cannot get around it.

I believe it and preach it. I do not add to it by stating that it says there was Mary's egg involved.

Rather you take away from the Word of God by denying that her egg was not used; denying that she conceived; and yet at the same time saying she did. You contradict yourself.

 

[DHK]

If it was all God and the egg was not used, He couldn't have died.BBob,

Who is suggesting that he would have died?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

What is the use of posting Scripture if you refuse to believe them.

You admit she conceived. That means an egg was fertilized. Even if it was by the Holy Spirit miraculously--an egg was fertilized. As you said "she conceived." You cannot get around it.
Rather you take away from the Word of God by denying that her egg was not used; denying that she conceived; and yet at the same time saying she did. You contradict yourself.

In the natural conceiving is with the egg. You are assuming that it was the same with the supernatural. I say it could have not been. Scripture would declare Christ blemished with the stain of sinful flesh had He been born of Mary's egg.

Scripture declares He was not born in sinful flesh. I will believe the Word of God.

 

[DHK]

In the natural conceiving is with the egg. You are assuming that it was the same with the supernatural. I say it could have not been. Scripture would declare Christ blemished with the stain of sinful flesh had he been born of Mary's egg.

Scripture declares He was not born in sinful flesh. I will believe the Word of God.

The Bible said that Mary conceived. You don't believe that, for if you did you would believe that Mary's egg would have been used as the word conception means.
Secondly the sin nature comes through the male (Romans 5:12,19).
There is no way that Jesus born of a virgin, conceived of the Holy Spirit would have inherited a sin nature. He would have been born with flesh--the same as we have.

 

[Eliyahu]

Rave party music? Where?



Or here, where the song that plays when you click is from a Christian band.




So where's this "rave party music" of which you write?

And where have I espoused shallow understanding of biblical truth? At the places where I have disagreed with you? If that's so, then that's sad.

Jesus is my Lord and Savior, there's no need for you or anyone else on this board to call that into question. If you want to know my story, then please, by all means, private message me and I'll share it. Otherwise, never question my salvation again.

Have I questioned your salvation? No, not once. Have I personally attacked you like you have me? No, not once. If you can't keep your punches above the belt, then get out of the ring.

Yes, there are billions of " So-called christians" in the world today.
I started to question this music as a Rave music video:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=79333535

Even the music on the Happy Halloween is doubtful too.

I believe the Truly Born Agan believers must know Halloween is absolutely Pagan, No doubt about it.

As for your posts, I knew that it was not worthwhile for me to comment. sorry about that.

 

[Brother Bob]

Who is suggesting that he would have died?

He was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. If He had of been all God, He would not of died, therefore the egg of Mary was used so that he had the human element for the suffering of death to make a perfect sacrifice.

BBob,

 

[Eliyahu]

Why would I do that??



Depends on which side of eternal you're sitting on! The Word has always existed. Mary's egg did not. When the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, the Word became flesh, just as the Scripture says. In keeping with the prophecies, Jesus came from Mary's flesh because otherwise He'd not be of the lineage of David. I already pointed out all the arguments on that.

You didn't answer my question fully yet.

Among them, if I point out one again, you need to answer how Egg became Word?

Word means invisible truth, did Egg become invisible and disappear?

Even Joseph's lineage is mentioned to show that Jesus is on the David's genealogy. In your logic, JOseph has nothing to do with Jesus, and therefore he cannot be a help to prove that Jesus came thru David's family. Even the Step Father is mentioned to prove the Lineage. the Surrogate Motherhood is nothing short of the family lineage.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Bible said that Mary conceived. You don't believe that, for if you did you would believe that Mary's egg would have been used as the word conception means.
Secondly the sin nature comes through the male (Romans 5:12,19).
There is no way that Jesus born of a virgin, conceived of the Holy Spirit would have inherited a sin nature. He would have been born with flesh--the same as we have.

There you go falsely accusing me again, DHK. I do believe Mary conceived. I just stated that in my previous post, yet you seem to ignore that.

But I do not believe it was her egg used in that conception. Had it been her egg, Christ would have been under the same curse as Mary and in need of a Savior Himself.

Romans 5 state that the sin nature came in by one man's disobedience. Who was first disobedient, DHK? EVE was. Do you truly believe she was not disobedient? How in the world do you come to such a fanciful conclusion in light of Genesis 5:2 stating "He called their name Adam"? Clearly, the woman brought the sin into the world as Adam.

 

[Eliyahu]

If it was all God and the egg was not used, He couldn't have died.

Hbr 2:9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

BBob,

Brother Bob,

Coming in the sinless flesh doesn't mean that He came in the steel shield.
He alone would have not died forever even though He lived in the flesh.
However, He laied down Himself for us. In that case, even though He didn't have to die, He would have died.

Death is the price for the sins. Jesus had never sinned, and therefore didn't have to pay the price for the sins by death. Sins result in the death. Jesus was sinless.

In your logic, your statement insinuates that Jesus had the sin nature in order to die at the Cross.

Jesus didn't have to die at all, but died on behalf of us.

 

[Eliyahu]

He was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. If He had of been all God, He would not of died, therefore the egg of Mary was used so that he had the human element for the suffering of death to make a perfect sacrifice.

BBob,

This is ludicrous.

If there had been any murderer like Cain, Adam could have died even before the Fall, if He had been attacked and killed but God didn't protect him.

However, when anyone had had no sin at all, then God would have protected such a person. In case of Jesus, God would have protected Him, but didn't because :

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Brother Bob]

This is ludicrous.

If there had been any murderer like Cain, Adam could have died even before the Fall, if He had been attacked and killed but God didn't protect him.

However, when anyone had had no sin at all, then God would have protected such a person. In case of Jesus, God would have protected Him, but didn't because :

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Wonder why God got it wrong and gave us scripture that he was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, got any ideas??


Hbr 2:9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

BBob

 

[Eliyahu]

Brother Bob has absolutely wrong idea about the nature of Christ.

If He was not killed at the Cross, Jesus Christ would not have died at all.

Because the Death didn't reign over Him.

He was sinless, blemish, spotless.

However He died on behalf of us, for our sins.

Jesus Christ was perfect before the Cross,

But He became perfect after the Cross.

The difference is that He became perfect including us, after the Cross.

This is the teaching in Hebrews 5:7-9.

Death is the price for the sins, and Jesus had no sin at all, the only person who is sinless.

This is why you have to be in agony when you claim the Egg should become the Flesh of Jesus.

In that case, the Egg must have been perfect before the Conception.

Then Immaculate Conception is essential, though it is groundless.

This is why many RCC people claimed the Immaculate Conception.

 

[Eliyahu]

Wonder why God got it wrong and gave us scripture that he was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, got any ideas??


Hbr 2:9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

BBob

Angels' immortality and the Immortality of the sinless human being is different.

Angels do not have the flesh and blood, but the sinless person like Abel could be killed.

Abel would have died as well even if he was not killed by Cain, maybe after the age of 930 or something.
However, Jesus was sinless and could have lived permanently unless someone killed Him and God didn't protect Him.

If a sinless person were threatened to be killed, God would have protected Him for His justice and truth. However, God didn't do it for Jesus, because He wanted Him to pay the price for our human beings.

Could you understand, Brother? I have debated with you and disagreed with you on several issues but never doubted your salvation, I know you are a True Believer, but You are very much wrong on this issue, Brother.

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob has absolutely wrong idea about the nature of Christ.

If He was not killed at the Cross, Jesus Christ would not have died at all.

Because the Death didn't reign over Him.

He was sinless, blemish, spotless.

However He died on behalf of us, for our sins.

Jesus Christ was perfect before the Cross,

But He became perfect after the Cross.

The difference is that He became perfect including us, after the Cross.

This is the teaching in Hebrews 5:7-9.

Death is the price for the sins, and Jesus had no sin at all, the only person who is sinless.

This is why you have to be in agony when you claim the Egg should become the Flesh of Jesus.

In that case, the Egg must have been perfect before the Conception.

Then Immaculate Conception is essential, though it is groundless.

This is why many RCC people claimed the Immaculate Conception.

The feared for His life when He went to jerusalem. Only reason He couldn't die before the cross is because God watched over Him and the angels were given charge over Him, least anytime He would stump His toe. The couldn't kill Him because it was not His time, but He was killable, He had a body that could be killed.

You do not know what you are talking about and are misquoting me terrible.

I only posted what scripture says that He WAS made a little lower than the angels, so He could die. In other words used Mary's egg.

Hbr 2:9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

You speak as a foolish man.

Luk 20:36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


Do you deny scripture???

BBob,

 

[Eliyahu]

You do not know what you are talking about and are misquoting me terrible.

I only posted what scripture says that He WAS made a little lower than the angels, so He could die. In other words used Mary's egg.

Hbr 2:9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

You speak as a foolish man.

Luk 20:36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


Do you deny scripture???

BBob,

Yeah, Jesus was a little lowered to suffer the death. Angels did not have to suffer the pains.

 

[Eliyahu]

Luk 20:36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


Do you deny scripture???

BBob,

That is for the body after the Resurrection. The resurrected, new body will not suffer the death any more because the previous body already suffered the death before. There will be a great link between the current body and the resurrected which is mentioned in 1 Cor 15.

However, Jesus having the flesh could suffer the death even though He wore the heavenly body, while He was on this earth.

 

[Brother Bob]

That is for the body after the Resurrection. The resurrected, new body will not suffer the death any more because the previous body already suffered the death before. There will be a great link between the current body and the resurrected which is mentioned in 1 Cor 15.

However, Jesus having the flesh could suffer the death even though He wore the heavenly body, while He was on this earth.

You think I don't know its talking about the resurrection, but it makes the point also, that Jesus had to be made a little lower than the angels, so He could die.

He had a fleshly body, without sin one that could be killed, if not kept by God and watched over by the angels. He did not have a heavenly body or they never could of killed Him.

You do speak foolishly.

BBob,

 

[standingfirminChrist]

My Bible tells the story of how He became sin when He hung on that cross. You are advocating Him becoming sin upon entering the world. For nothing born of a woman is clean.

 

[Eliyahu]

You think I don't know its talking about the resurrection, but it makes the point also, that Jesus had to be made a little lower than the angels, so He could die.

He had a fleshly body, without sin one that could be killed, if not kept by God and watched over by the angels. He did not have a heavenly body or they never could of killed Him.

You do speak foolishly.

BBob,

Your wise statement doesn't make sense either, Brother.

He was born of Heaven, while the others were born from the earth.

1 Cor 15
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


There is one more statement in John too. Search for it!

 

[Eliyahu]

Was Mary from Heaven?

Was the Egg of Mary from Heaven? Maybe according to Babylonian Myth of goddess Ishtar?