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The Birth and Nature of Christ

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cowboymatt

New Member
Reading original sin which is passed down genetically into the Bible is simply bad exegesis...in fact its not exegesis. Exegesis means getting meaning "out of" the text, while eisegesis means putting meaning "onto" the text. When reading the Bible we have to put our theological wishes aside and actually see what it says on its own without reading Augustine, Calvin, Luther, or anyone else's theology on top of it.

Regarding the reference to "Heli" in the Jerusalem Talmud, Chagigah (or Hagigah): There are not 77 chapters or folios in J-Talmud Hagigah nor in the Babylonian Talmud Hagigah. There are some references to Jesus in the Talmud, but they are clearly trying to discredit Jesus as the Messiah.
 

cowboymatt

New Member
annsni said:
The Scriptures say in Hebrews 10:5, "but a body hast thou prepared me:" God prepared a body for Jesus. That's God's Word.
You are right, it's part of the Bible...but your interpretation does not mesh with the passage well. The rest of Hebrews 10:5-6 is clearly about the sacrifice that Jesus made, thus the implication of "a body hast thou prepared for me" is that God prepared Jesus' body for sacrifice, as one would a lamb, goat, bull, dove, etc at the Temple.
 

Agnus_Dei

New Member
donnA said:
Don't know about you or anyone else, but I read about sin in the bible, and have never read some old texts about it.
Just how do you think each person inherits the sin nature?
donnA: From an Orthodox perspective, we understand sin a little differently from the “Western” (Roman Catholic and Protestant) view of sin. As Bishop Kallistos Ware states…the Orthodox Church doesn’t view sin quasi-biologically, like some genetic mutation that stained the original human couple and is being transmitted in generations, staining us all.

Rather, the Orthodox view sin as a disease to which we all are susceptible (because we have free will and haven't quite learnt how to use it properly), and to which we are increasingly susceptible because we are being born to the society where to be ill with this disease and to show its symptoms is considered normal (think of the common notions like to err is human, why should I be holier than thou, etc.). So, the great spiritual truth of the Bible is that everyone sins and nobody sins alone (that is, it is sufficient for one man to begin sinning, and the whole humankind will sooner or later be affected).

Jesus being fully human and fully divine, His humanity submitted to His divinity.

I’m guilty of my own sin, not Adam’s; I only inherited the consequences of Adam’s sin.

INXC
 

Doubting Thomas

Active Member
Matt Black said:
I think Eusebius covers this in some depth in his Church History but I can't remember what he says:eek: Will try and look it up when I get home
Here's what I've come up with....

According to Julius Africanus (c160-c240 AD) (I believe also referenced in Eusebius) in his Letter to Aristides:

"And for this reason the one traced the pedigree of Jacob the father of Joseph from David through Solomon; the other traced that of Heli also, though in a different way, the father of Joseph, from Nathan the son of David. And they ought not indeed to have been ignorant that both orders of the ancestors enumerated are the generation of David, the royal tribe of Juda."

He continuing in Chapter II:
"For indeed, by the succession of legitimate offspring, and according to law whenever another raised up children to the name of a brother dying childless; for because no clear hope of resurrection was yet given them, they had a representation of the future promise in a kind of mortal resurrection, with the view of perpetuating the name of one deceased;—whereas, then, of those entered in this genealogy, some succeeded by legitimate descent as son to father, while others begotten in one family were introduced to another in name, mention is therefore made of both—of those who were progenitors in fact, and of those who were so only in name. Thus neither of the evangelists is in error, as the one reckons by nature and the other by law. For the several generations, viz., those descending from Solomon and those from Nathan, were so intermingled by the raising up of children to the childless, and by second marriages, and the raising up of seed, that the same persons are quite justly reckoned to belong at one time to the one, and at another to the other, i.e., to their reputed or to their actual fathers. And hence it is that both these accounts are true, and come down to Joseph, with considerable intricacy indeed, but yet quite accurately."

In Chapter III...

"But in order that what I have said may be made evident, I shall explain the interchange of the generations. If we reckon the generations from David through Solomon, Matthan is found to be the third from the end, who begat Jacob the father of Joseph. But if, with Luke, we reckon them from Nathan the son of David, in like manner the third from the end is Melchi, whose son was Heli the father of Joseph. For Joseph was the son of Heli, the son of Melchi*. [*Note: But in our text in Luke iii. 23, 24, and so, too, in the Vulgate, Matthat and Levi are inserted between Heli and Melchi. It may be that these two names were not found in the copy used by Africanus.] As Joseph, therefore, is the object proposed to us, we have to show how it is that each is represented as his father, both Jacob as descending from Solomon, and Heli as descending from Nathan: first, how these two, Jacob and Heli, were brothers; and then also how the fathers of these, Matthan and Melchi* (Matthat), being of different families, are shown to be the grandfathers of Joseph. Well, then, Matthan and Melchi*(Matthat), having taken the same woman to wife in succession, begat children who were uterine brothers, as the law did not prevent a widow, whether such by divorce or by the death of her husband, from marrying another. By Estha, then—for such is her name according to tradition—Matthan first, the descendant of Solomon, begets Jacob; and on Matthan’s death, Melchi*(Matthat), who traces his descent back to Nathan, being of the same tribe but of another family, having married her, as has been already said, had a son Heli. Thus, then, we shall find Jacob and Heli uterine brothers, though of different families. And of these, the one Jacob having taken the wife of his brother Heli, who died childless, begat by her the third, Joseph—his son by nature and by account. Whence also it is written, “And Jacob begat Joseph.” But according to law he was the son of Heli, for Jacob his brother raised up seed to him. Wherefore also the genealogy deduced through him will not be made void, which the Evangelist Matthew in his enumeration gives thus: “And Jacob begat Joseph.” But Luke, on the other hand, says, “Who was the son, as was supposed (for this, too, he adds), of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Melchi*(Matthat--see note above).” For it was not possible more distinctly to state the generation according to law; and thus in this mode of generation he has entirely omitted the word “begat” to the very end, carrying back the genealogy by way of conclusion to Adam and to God."

Comment--So here's early testimony that the geneologies in Matthew and Luke are both of Joseph, with Joseph being descendent of David through Solomon through his biological father, Jacob, and also of David through Nathan through his legal father, Heli. (Jacob and Heli being half-brothers with the same mother--Estha)


Then a few centuries later, according to John of Damascus, in his Exposition of the Orthodox Faith:

"But that Joseph is descended from the tribe of David is expressly demonstrated by Matthew and Luke, the most holy evangelists. But Matthew derives Joseph from David through Solomon, while Luke does so through Nathan; while over the holy Virgin’s origin both pass in silence.
One ought to remember that it was not the custom of the Hebrews nor of the divine Scripture to give genealogies of women; and the law was to prevent one tribe seeking wives from another[Numbers 36:6-12]. . And so since Joseph was descended from the tribe of David and was a just man (for this the divine Gospel testifies), he would not have espoused the holy Virgin contrary to the law; he would not have taken her unless she had been of the same tribe. It was sufficient, therefore, to demonstrate the descent of Joseph.
One ought also to observe this, that the law was that when a man died without seed, this man’s brother should take to wife the wife of the dead man and raise up seed to his brother. The offspring, therefore, belonged by nature to the second, that is, to him that begat it, but by law to the dead.
Born then of the line of Nathan, the son of David, Levi begat Melchi* [*"Matthat", see NOTE above in citation of Julius Africanus] and Panther: Panther begat Barpanther, so called. This Barpanther begat Joachim: Joachim begat the holy Mother of God. And of the line of Solomon, the son of David, Mathan had a wife of whom he begat Jacob. Now on the death of Mathan, Melchi* (Matthat), of the tribe of Nathan, the son of Levi and brother of Panther, married the wife of Mathan, Jacob’s mother, of whom he begat Heli. Therefore Jacob and Heli became brothers on the mother’s side, Jacob being of the tribe of Solomon and Heli of the tribe of Nathan. Then Heli of the tribe of Nathan died childless, and Jacob his brother, of the tribe of Solomon, took his wife and raised up seed to his brother and begat Joseph. Joseph, therefore, is by nature the son of Jacob, of the line of Solomon, but by law he is the son of Heli of the line of Nathan. " (De Fide Ortho IV, 14)

Comments:
--So John basically repeats what Julius states regarding the geneologies of Joseph while adding the detail of Mary's great-grandfather and Joseph's (legal) grandfather being brothers--both sons of Levi--making them legally second cousins once removed.

--The names of Mary's parents, Joachim and Anna, go back very early, at least to the Protoevangelium of James (mid 2nd century AD) where they are described as David's descendents. (These names were consistent in Christian tradition)

--Both Ignatius (Ephesians 18) and Justin Martyr (Adv Trypho 100) also testify to the fact that Mary is of the seed of David.

--So Joseph is biologically and legally the descendent of David, and Mary is the descendent of David as well. If this assessment is correct then God seems to have had "all his bases covered". :thumbs:



As for the Talmud reference...
‘...that saw “Mary the daughter of Eli” in the shades, hanging by the fibres of her breasts; and there are that say, the gate, or, as elsewhere (Chagiga, fol. 77. 4.), the bar of the gate of hell is fixed to her ear’

(I got this from a website which advocates the idea that Luke's geneology was that of Mary). If this is indeed a reference to Christ's mother Mary, then it's maliciousness may give one pause before ascribing too much crediblity to it regarding the exact connection between Mary and Heli (although the two are cousins, based on John's (of Damascus) account). At any rate, from what I've read, in Christian circles the idea that Luke's geneology was that of Mary, rather that of Joseph, came very late in history.
 

cowboymatt

New Member
DT, I went to the library at Fuller Seminary and looked at the Chagigah with my own eyes and was unable to find this reference in either the Babylonian or Jerusalem Talmud. I'm not saying that I doubt its veracity, but isn't it odd that there are actually only 3 or 4 folios of the Jerusalem Talmud Chagigah and 20-something in the Babylonians?
 

cowboymatt

New Member
Agnus_Dei said:
donnA: From an Orthodox perspective, we understand sin a little differently from the “Western” (Roman Catholic and Protestant) view of sin. As Bishop Kallistos Ware states…the Orthodox Church doesn’t view sin quasi-biologically, like some genetic mutation that stained the original human couple and is being transmitted in generations, staining us all.

Rather, the Orthodox view sin as a disease to which we all are susceptible (because we have free will and haven't quite learnt how to use it properly), and to which we are increasingly susceptible because we are being born to the society where to be ill with this disease and to show its symptoms is considered normal (think of the common notions like to err is human, why should I be holier than thou, etc.). So, the great spiritual truth of the Bible is that everyone sins and nobody sins alone (that is, it is sufficient for one man to begin sinning, and the whole humankind will sooner or later be affected).

Jesus being fully human and fully divine, His humanity submitted to His divinity.

I’m guilty of my own sin, not Adam’s; I only inherited the consequences of Adam’s sin.

INXC

Great post, thanks! I was on the verge of pulling out some of my Orthodox sources. But now I don't have to, even though I may still do so!
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
HP: Is it any wonder how we perpetuate the myth of original sin? Here is a clear verse that simply states that all have sinned, and says NOTHING about a sin nature in the least, and yet as Linda does here, so many read their presupposition of a ‘sin nature’ or OS into the text. I suppose it is because they have heard it done so often in the pulpit.

Rom 3:23 "ALL HAVE sinned" makes your point about all choosing to sin.

But prior to that Romans 3 addresses the sin "nature" which speaks to the motives and intents of the heart BEFORE a decision is made "there is no one that SEEKS after God... no not one".

in Romans 7 we see the same thing "SIN IN me waging war against the law of my mind".

Christ did not have that "sin nature" but he had a physically "fallen nature" weakened physically - not spiritually deformed.

in Christ,

Bob
 

Agnus_Dei

New Member
Doubting Thomas said:
Here's what I've come up with....

According to Julius Africanus (c160-c240 AD) (I believe also referenced in Eusebius) in his Letter to Aristides:
Good research DT, much appreciated!

ICXC NIKA
-
 

Doubting Thomas

Active Member
cowboymatt said:
DT, I went to the library at Fuller Seminary and looked at the Chagigah with my own eyes and was unable to find this reference in either the Babylonian or Jerusalem Talmud. I'm not saying that I doubt its veracity, but isn't it odd that there are actually only 3 or 4 folios of the Jerusalem Talmud Chagigah and 20-something in the Babylonians?
Thanks for the heads up. Unlike the references of Julius Africanus and John of Damascus (and Ignatius and Justin for that matter) which can easily be accessed and verified on the web, I only saw that Talmudic reference as cited on another website (hence my caveat given).

Again, thanks for taking the time to actually look it up. :thumbs:
 

Brother Bob

New Member
cowboymatt said:
Reading original sin which is passed down genetically into the Bible is simply bad exegesis...in fact its not exegesis. Exegesis means getting meaning "out of" the text, while eisegesis means putting meaning "onto" the text. When reading the Bible we have to put our theological wishes aside and actually see what it says on its own without reading Augustine, Calvin, Luther, or anyone else's theology on top of it.

Regarding the reference to "Heli" in the Jerusalem Talmud, Chagigah (or Hagigah): There are not 77 chapters or folios in J-Talmud Hagigah nor in the Babylonian Talmud Hagigah. There are some references to Jesus in the Talmud, but they are clearly trying to discredit Jesus as the Messiah.

cowboymatt; thanks and if you are back at the library look under Oral Torah for the 77:4

BBob,

I have no idea how valid this reference is, maybe you know something about them.

http://www.jewfaq.org/moshe.htm

Oral Torah: The Talmud

In addition to the written scriptures we have an "Oral Torah," a tradition explaining what the above scriptures mean and how to interpret them and apply the Laws. Orthodox Jews believe G-d taught the Oral Torah to Moses, and he taught it to others, down to the present day. This tradition was maintained only in oral form until about the 2d century C.E., when the oral law was compiled and written down in a document called the Mishnah.
 

donnA

Active Member
annsni said:
The Scriptures say in Hebrews 10:5, "but a body hast thou prepared me:" God prepared a body for Jesus. That's God's Word.

So is this a true statement in your opinion is what I'd like to know

Quote:
donnA: Let me get this straight, God fertilized Mary's egg, and created a body for Jesus, and then Jesus indwelt the prepared body?
1. God made the body, inside Mary
2. Then Jesus indwelt it
 

donnA

Active Member
Agnus_Dei said:
donnA: From an Orthodox perspective, we understand sin a little differently from the “Western” (Roman Catholic and Protestant) view of sin. As Bishop Kallistos Ware states…the Orthodox Church doesn’t view sin quasi-biologically, like some genetic mutation that stained the original human couple and is being transmitted in generations, staining us all.

Rather, the Orthodox view sin as a disease to which we all are susceptible (because we have free will and haven't quite learnt how to use it properly), and to which we are increasingly susceptible because we are being born to the society where to be ill with this disease and to show its symptoms is considered normal (think of the common notions like to err is human, why should I be holier than thou, etc.). So, the great spiritual truth of the Bible is that everyone sins and nobody sins alone (that is, it is sufficient for one man to begin sinning, and the whole humankind will sooner or later be affected).

Jesus being fully human and fully divine, His humanity submitted to His divinity.

I’m guilty of my own sin, not Adam’s; I only inherited the consequences of Adam’s sin.

INXC

Then what your saying it's possible for people not to sin.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
. The Historical Question.
1. Statement Not Dogmatic but Vital as History:
2. Its Importance to Leaders of the Early Church:
3. Hypothesis of Invention Discredits the Church:
The Critical Question.
1. Basis of Virgin-Birth Statement:
(1) that the fact of Jesus' unique birth could not be proclaimed as a part of His own teaching or as the basis of His incarnate life;
(2) that He was popularly known as the son of Joseph;
(3) that the foster-fatherhood of Joseph, as embodied in the genealogy (see GENEALOGY OF JESUS CHRIST), was the recognized basis of His relationship to the house of David. All these facts appear just as they should in the narrative.
2. Interrelationship of Narratives:
3. Sources, Origin and Age of Documents:
V. The Doctrinal Question.
1. In the New Testament:
The discussion of the doctrinal significance of the virgin-birth statement falls naturally into three parts:
(1) Its doctrinal elaboration in the New Testament;
(2) its historic function in the development of Christian doctrine;
(3) its permanent value to Christian thought.
The detailed justification of this statement follows:
(1) Matthew (see 1:18-25) does not use the term "Son of God." The only expression implying a unique relationship to God, other than in the "of Holy Spirit" phrase, twice used, is in the word "Immanuel" quoted from Isaiah, which does not necessarily involve incarnation. At the beginning of the genealogy Jesus is introduced as the son of David, the son of Abraham.
(2) The assertion as to His conception by Holy Spirit is conditioned by three striking facts:
(a) His conception is interpreted in terms of conception by the power of Holy Spirit, not of begetting by the Father. The Old Testament expression "This day have I begotten thee," used twice, occurs in quite a different connection (Heb 3:5; 5:5).
(b) The term "Holy Spirit" is used without the article.
(c) The phrase descriptive of the being conceived is expressed in the neuter, `the thing conceived in her is of Holy Spirit' (to gar en aute gennethen ek pneumatos estin hagiou).
The implication of these three facts is
(i) that the sonship of Jesus through His exceptional birth is interpreted in terms of divine power working upon humanity, not as the correlative of divine and essential fatherhood; it is the historical sonship that is in view (contrast with this the two passages in Hebrews referred to above);
(ii) the writer is speaking in the Old Testament sense of "Holy Spirit" as the forthgoing of creative power from God, not as personal hypostasis;
(iii) he is also emphasizing (in the use of the neuter) the reality of the physical birth. These three facts, all the more remarkable because they are attributed to a heavenly messenger who might be expected to speak more fully concerning the mystery, exclude the supposition that we have one historic form of the doctrine of incarnation. On the contrary, had we no other statements than those found here we should be unable logically to postulate an incarnation. Every statement made concerning Jesus, apart from the virgin-birth statement itself, might be true were He the son of Joseph and Mary.
The case is far stronger when we turn to Luke's account, in spite of the fact that the terms "Son of the Most High" and "Son of God" ordinarily implying incarnation are used. We notice
(d) that the anarthrous use of "Holy Spirit" reappears and that a poetic parallelism defines the term (Lu 1:35), making "Holy Spirit" = "Power of the Most High";
(e) that the neuter phrase is also found here, "the holy thing which is begotten," etc. (dio kai to gennomenon hagion klethesetai);
(f) that future tenses are used in connection with His career and the titles which He bears: "He shall be (as the outcome of a process) great," and "He shall be called (as a matter of ultimate titular recognition) the Son of the Most High" (Lu 1:32); "The holy thing .... shall be called the Son of God" (Lu 1:35).
In these instances the title is connected directly with the career rather than the birth. Even the "wherefore" of Lu 1:35, in connection with the future verb, carries the power of God manifested in the holy conception forward into the entire career of Jesus rather than bases the career upon the initial miracle. These three facts taken together exclude the reference to any conception of the incarnation. The incarnation is directly and inseparably connected with Christ's eternal sonship to the Father. The title "Son of God" includes that but does not specify it. It includes also the ethical, historical, human sonship. The term "Holy Spirit" used without the article also is a comprehensive expression covering both a work of divine power in any sphere and a work of divine grace in the personal sphere only.
These accounts are concerned with the historic fact rather than its metaphysical implications. This historic fact is interpreted in terms of a divine power in and through the human career of Jesus (which is so stated as to include an impersonal, germinal life) rather than a dogmatic definition of the Messiah's essential nature. The omission of all reference to pre-existence is negatively conclusive on this point. The divine power manifested in His exceptional origin is thought of as extending on and including His entire career. This leads us directly to a second phase in the interpretation of Christ and compels to a reconsideration at a new angle of the miracle of His origin.

Gathered from the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
2. Portrait of Jesus in Synoptic Gospels:
The narrators of the life and ministry of Jesus on the basis of ascertained fact and apostolic testimony were confronted with a very definite and delicate task. They had to tell with unexaggerating truthfulness the story of the human life of Jesus. Their ultimate aim was to justify the doctrine of incarnation, but they could not have been unaware that the genuine and sincere humanity of Christ was a pillar of the doctrine quite as much as His essential Deity. To portray the human experience of a being considered essentially divine was the Herculean task attempted and carried to a successful issue in the Synoptic Gospels. These writers do not conceal for a moment their conviction that they are depicting the career of the wonder-working Son of God, but they never forget that it is a career of self-limitation within the human sphere, the period of self-imposed and complete humiliation undertaken on behalf of the Father, "for us men and for our salvation." Hence, the nature and limitations of the narrative. Mark omits reference to the virgin-birth. Matthew and Luke narrate it and forthwith drop it. These facts are exactly on a paragraph. It is no more remarkable that Mark omits the story than that Matthew and Luke make so little of it. To allege either fact as a motive to doubt is to misinterpret the whole situation. By the terms of their task they could do nothing else. The Fourth Gospel and the Epistles announce that the human life of Jesus was due to the voluntary extra-temporal act of a pre-existent Divine Being, but in the synoptic narrative four passages only hint at pre-existence, and then as incidental flashes from the inner consciousness of Jesus. This omission is no more remarkable and no less so than the omissions noted above. By the terms of their task the synoptic writers could do nothing else. The fact of pre-existence could be announced only when the earthly task had been triumphantly finished (see Mr 9:9,11). During the entire period of the earthly life as such Jesus was under trial (note Mt 3:17, correctly translating the aorist; compare the remarkable words of Joh 10:17), performing a task, accomplishing a commission, achieving a victory as human son. The story of the Temptation exhibits the conditions under which Jesus performed His task. The temptations were one and all addressed to His consciousness as God's Son. They were resisted on the sole basis of self-humiliation and dependence. The entire synoptic narrative is consistent with this representation. Jesus is consciously one in will and spirit with God, but that oneness with God is consummated and conducted in the Spirit, through faith, by prayer. They describe His entire career of holiness, wisdom and power, each unique, in the terms of the Spirit-filled, trustful, prayerful human life. Here is the vital point. They disclose the eternal Sonship (in which beyond question they believe) on its ethical, not on its metaphysical side, by prediction of His future triumph rather than by definition of His person. In such a narrative, consistently carried out, there can be no resort to the preexistent, eternal Sonship, nor to the miracle of His human origin in the story of His career under trial. In particular, the miracle, whereby His germinal connection with the race was established could not extend to the personal and spiritual life in which His victory was His own through the personal Holy Spirit. The argument from the virgin-birth to His sinlessness (see IMMACULATE CONCEPTION) was made by the church, not by the New Testament writers. The sinlessness of Christ was His own achievement in the flesh which He sacrificed through His holy will of obedience to the Father.
According to the infancy narrative, the birth of Jesus was due to a divine creative act whereby a human life began germinally and passed through the successive stages of growth to maturity. The synoptic narrative outside the infancy narrative supplies a third point, that the entire conscious personal career of Jesus upon earth was lived in the power of the Holy Spirit.
The doctrine of incarnation implies that as in every new human being the creative divine power manifests itself impersonally in germinal beginnings, so in the life of Christ the divine power conditions itself within the impersonal forces of germinant life with this important and suggestive difference: In the career of Jesus there issues from the sphere of germinal beginnings not a new human person created from the life-stock of the race, but the personal human life, including all human powers, of a pre-existent divine person self- conditioned and self-implanted within the human sphere. The central conscious self, the agent of His activities and the subject of His experiences in the historic sphere was the eternal Son of God. His life in the human sphere was that of a true human being in the full actuality of a human life. Hence, it follows, since ordinary generation involves necessarily (that is the intent of it) the origination of a new person not hitherto existing, that the birth of Jesus could not have been by ordinary generation. The birth of Christ through ordinary generation would have involved a quite incomprehensible miracle, namely, the presence and action of the ordinary factors in human origins with a contrary and unique result. The virgin-birth is the only key that fits the vacant space in the arch. In addition it may reasonably be urged that the relationship of human parents to each other, ordinarily a natural, necessary and sacred act, could have no part in this transaction, while the very fact that Mary's relationship was to God alone, in an act of submission involving complete self-renunciation and solitary enclosure within the divine will, fulfils the spiritual conditions of this unique motherhood as no other imaginable experience could.

This information comes from the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia. It states the historic position on the Virgin Birth. It also states the position of Eusebius as heretical--the Ebionite view, a view that has been commonly expressed here.


 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
donnA said:
So is this a true statement in your opinion is what I'd like to know

Quote:
donnA: Let me get this straight, God fertilized Mary's egg, and created a body for Jesus, and then Jesus indwelt the prepared body?
1. God made the body, inside Mary
2. Then Jesus indwelt it

Apparently!

Just wanted to let you know that if you have other questions, it might have to be tomorrow before I answer them. I'm coming down with a migraine and I'm going to lay down. :wavey: Hopefully a little rest will help (along with 800 mg. of motrin), so I may be back. :)
 

donnA

Active Member
annsni said:
Apparently!

Just wanted to let you know that if you have other questions, it might have to be tomorrow before I answer them. I'm coming down with a migraine and I'm going to lay down. :wavey: Hopefully a little rest will help (along with 800 mg. of motrin), so I may be back. :)

I hope the motrin helps, I know I have to take mega doeses when I get migraines also. But when mine come they stay for days. Take your time about getting back to us.

What I just described (in my previous question) is a human being who became God, not God who became a human being.
 

EdSutton

New Member
yawning.gif
yawn.gif


Can I get any odds on how long this one will take to reach 30 pages??

Ed
 
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