The Book Crazy Love

[freeatlast]

You know that is NOT what he is saying! You are deliberately avoiding the issue.

If your pastor wrote a book of his collected sermons (his sermons, transcribed to paper), would you read it? Yes or no, please.

If it was a book of sermons I would get the tape, :laugh: but I have never heard of a book of only sermons, have you?
However this is not about a book of sermons. You are deliberately avoiding the issue.

 

[Havensdad]

Clearly you have not read what I have written and just responding off the wall.

I have read what you have written. I am responding to it, quote by quote. Perhaps YOU have not thought over things before you posted?

Crazy Love is basically an extended sermon. Every bit of it is backed by scripture (which he references EXTENSIVELY). Chan is a minister; he is commanded by God to instruct the saints. That is what he is doing.

 

[Havensdad]

If it was a book of sermons I would get the tape, :laugh: but I have never heard of a book of only sermons, have you?
However this is not about a book of sermons. You are deliberately avoiding the issue.

Uh, yeah, there are LOTS of books of collected sermons.

I am not avoiding the issue. There is no difference between a preacher writing a book, or preaching a sermon. They are the same thing.

 

[freeatlast]

I have read what you have written. I am responding to it, quote by quote. Perhaps YOU have not thought over things before you posted?

Crazy Love is basically an extended sermon. Every bit of it is backed by scripture (which he references EXTENSIVELY). Chan is a minister; he is commanded by God to instruct the saints. That is what he is doing.

No you have not read what I wrote or you would not have wrote what you did if you are an honest person.

Like I said if the book agrees with the bible I don't need it. If it does not I don't want it. If he is posting sermons then that would be different but that is not the case I read part of it and put it away.

 

[freeatlast]

Uh, yeah, there are LOTS of books of collected sermons.

I am not avoiding the issue. There is no difference between a preacher writing a book, or preaching a sermon. They are the same thing.

Like I said if the book agrees with scripture I don't need it and if it disagrees I don't want it. Read and study the bible and save lost of money.

 

[Havensdad]

No you have not read what I wrote or you would not have wrote what you did if you are an honest person.

Well, I challenge you to find a single person that disagrees with my take on what you are saying....

I won't be holding my breath.

Like I said if the book agrees with the bible I don't need it. If it does not I don't want it. If he is posting sermons then that would be different but that is not the case I read part of it and put it away.

Again, there is no difference between a sermon and a book. Are you honestly saying that THE FORMAT (printed instead of spoken) makes a difference? And YOU ARE WRONG> Much of Crazy Love IS actually Chan's sermons!

Again, no difference between a book and preaching. Whether a preacher writes a book, or preaches a sermon, he is still expounding the Bible, just the same. You are arrogant, and think you need no instruction from Godly brothers. How sad.

 

[Havensdad]

Like I said if the book agrees with scripture I don't need it and if it disagrees I don't want it. Read and study the bible and save lost of money.

So you think preaching is useless, then? After all, "If the preacher agrees with scripture, you don't need to listen to him. If he disagrees with the Bible, you don't want to listen to him." Read the Bible, and save yourself a lot of time...

 

[MNJacob]

While I am a fair student of the Bible, to say that my own study is exhaustive and sufficient would be the utmost in pride. I would rather stand on the shoulders of giants.

 

[Yeshua1]

I read a little of it and put it away. He has not improved on the bible. If the bible is taught properly and read with desire it will surpass anything that he or anyone has said. Just stick to the word and all will be fine. I find it interestingly sad today at how many are seeking something, more of God/Jesus, outside of the word of God. All we can learn is in one book and no one is going to offer anything more that the true child of God needs that is not already written about in that one book. If those in the church who feel that they are lacking something in their walk would obey this one scripture they would find more then they could ever ask or think.
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

remember that God have to his church authors/writters though gifted to take the bible and reveal speak to us thru it!

Agree that the bible MUST be the primary source for our spiritual walf, but NOT only source!

 

[freeatlast]

So you think preaching is useless, then? After all, "If the preacher agrees with scripture, you don't need to listen to him. If he disagrees with the Bible, you don't want to listen to him." Read the Bible, and save yourself a lot of time...

Read what I wrote.

 

[freeatlast]

remember that God have to his church authors/writters though gifted to take the bible and reveal speak to us thru it!

Agree that the bible MUST be the primary source for our spiritual walf, but NOT only source!

Yes the bible is the only source. Are you a Mormon as they use other books?

 

[annsni]

I'm reading it now after getting it free a couple of months ago on the Kindle. So far, I enjoying it. I think sometimes we become complacent in our walk with the Lord and need a kick in the butt. I don't see books any different than listening to a sermon and this oneis just reminding us of having a stronger and more real walk with the Lord.


Eta - I hadn't read page 3 where others compared this book to a sermon. Great minds, I guess!

 

[Scarlett O.]

Paul NEVER suggests to use anything outside the written word of God for the things of God.

Actually, he does. He references an unknown (to us) letter of his to the church at Corinth in 1 Corinthians 5. He says in what we call "first" Corinthians (but actually isn't his first letter to them), "In my other letter I told you not to have anything to do with immoral people."

Also, there are at least a dozen extra-Biblical writings cited in the Bible itself and are commended for having important knowledge or commended for backing up what the Biblical author is saying.

And besides - and not to be nitpicky - but when the Apostle Paul wrote his lettes, he had no idea that those letters would be part of holy scripture some day. He was just writing "letters" to individual people and churches. So all of his letters were "extra-scriptural" to him, weren't they? :saint: :flower: And yet he still admonished people to abide by them.

I believe that the Bible is THE source of truth. The only infallible source of God's truth. And it should be the primary reading material of Christians.

I also believe, because I have experienced it, that there are gifted writers - both men and women - who can take the Word of God and help to relate it and teach it and feed it to the flock. These writers aren't inspired like the Biblical authors and their writings aren't infallible like the Bible is, but I believe that God uses many of these people to guide others to Him and His Word.

 

[freeatlast]

Actually, he does. He references an unknown (to us) letter of his to the church at Corinth in 1 Corinthians 5. He says in what we call "first" Corinthians (but actually isn't his first letter to them), "In my other letter I told you not to have anything to do with immoral people."

Also, there are at least a dozen extra-Biblical writings cited in the Bible itself and are commended for having important knowledge or commended for backing up what the Biblical author is saying.

And besides - and not to be nitpicky - but when the Apostle Paul wrote his lettes, he had no idea that those letters would be part of holy scripture some day. He was just writing "letters" to individual people and churches. So all of his letters were "extra-scriptural" to him, weren't they? :saint: :flower: And yet he still admonished people to abide by them.

I believe that the Bible is THE source of truth. The only infallible source of God's truth. And it should be the primary reading material of Christians.

I also believe, because I have experienced it, that there are gifted writers - both men and women - who can take the Word of God and help to relate it and teach it and feed it to the flock. These writers aren't inspired like the Biblical authors and their writings aren't infallible like the Bible is, but I believe that God uses many of these people to guide others to Him and His Word.

Your response reminds me of a politician who answer with something none related. :laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

It is most unbecoming of you to play games with the word of God. The books is a word for a scroll which would have been the word of God not books written by men like we have today from the book store. The parchments would be the same, but on different material and even possibly his own notes but still the word of God. Paul is being lead by the Spirit and is not suggesting that he wants to read books from someone giving their opinion. It would be like someone today who is sent to prison for their faith in Christ and they ask a friend to send their bible bible and their personal notes. Paul NEVER suggests to use anything outside the written word of God for the things of God.
People have turned from the bible to a multitude of books and we are seeing the result of it in the church as it becomes more and more lukewarm. We need to return to our first love.

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
How did he know what the poets said?

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

This was not from scripture,was it?

The love of this world, is often the cause of turning back from the truths and ways of Jesus Christ. Paul was guided by Divine inspiration, yet he would have his books. As long as we live, we must still learn. The apostles did not neglect human means, in seeking the necessaries of life, or their own instruction. Let us thank the Divine goodness in having given us so many writings of wise and pious men in all ages; and let us seek that by reading them our profiting may appear to all.

And the books - It is impossible to determine what books are meant here. They may have been portions of the Old Testament, or classic writings, or books written by other Christians, or by himself. It is worthy of remark that even Paul did not travel without books, and that he found them in some way necessary for the work of the ministry.

Especially the parchments - The word here used (μεμβράνας membranas, whence our word "membrane"), occurs only in this place in the New Testament, and means skin, membrane, or parchment. Dressed skins were among the earliest materials for writing, and were in common use before the art of making paper from rags was discovered. These "parchments" seem to have been something different from "books," and probably refer to some of his own writings. They may have contained notes, memorandums, journals, or unfinished letters. It is, of course, impossible now to determine what they were. Benson supposes they were letters which he had received from the churches; Macknight, that they were the originals of the letters which he had written; Dr. Bull, that they were a kind of common-place book, in which he inserted hints and extracts of the most remarkable passages in the authors which he read. All this, however, is mere conjecture.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When thou comest, bring with thee; he would have him call for it at Troas as he came by, and bring it with him:

and the books; that were in it, or were there, besides the Hebrew Pentateuch: the apostle was a great reader of books, of various sorts, both Gentile and Jewish, as appears by his citations out of the Heathen poets, and his acquaintance with Jewish records, Acts 17:28. And though he was now grown old, and near his exit, yet was mindful and careful of his books, and desirous of having them to read; and herein set an example to Timothy and others, and enforced the exhortation he gave him, 1 Timothy 4:13.

But especially the parchments: which might contain his own writings he had a mind to revise before his death, and commit into the hands of proper persons; or some observations which he had made in his travels, concerning persons and things; though it is most likely that these were the books of the Old Testament, which were written on parchments, and rolled up together; and hence they are called the volume of the book; and these the apostle had a special regard for, that whatever was neglected, he desired that these might not, but be carefully brought unto him.

 

[Monster]

Read what I wrote.

You should judge yourself by the standard you set here. You seem to echo the very words I wrote to you in another thread, which you completely ignored. Congratulations.

This thread demonstrates your, divisive trolling behavior perfectly. It was moving along smoothly (1 post) until you derailed it. Congratulations.

 

[freeatlast]

You should judge yourself by the standard you set here. You seem to echo the very words I wrote to you in another thread, which you completely ignored. Congratulations.

This thread demonstrates your, divisive trolling behavior perfectly. It was moving along smoothly (1 post) until you derailed it. Congratulations.

Come out of your darkenss and cling to the truth.

 

[Monster]

Come out of your darkenss and cling to the truth.

What's darkenss?

 

[Havensdad]

Read what I wrote.

I did. That is what I am responding to...what you wrote. you are denying any value to anything other than scripture, which would also be a rejection of preaching. If you reject books, you must also reject preaching.

 

[evangelist6589]

This is a very well crafted response. Good job!

You have set up a false dichotomy here. First, a book can agree with the Bible, but "unpack" its teachings, the same way that a preacher does. It can show you how that section of scripture applies to your life. It can show you how that scripture fits with other scripture (which may to a new Christian seem contradictory).

Second, the idea that if it is not in the Bible, you "don't need it" is laughable. The Bible was not written to be exhaustive. It was written to tell the story of redemption. You cannot learn how to drive a car (to go witness to people) from the Bible. Or how to fly a plane (to deliver supplies to missionaries overseas). Both your premise and conclusion is way off the mark.



So, a person cannot do both? There are entire books expounding very small sections of scripture. The Bible is exhaustive in its contents. Simply reading through it, without stopping to study it, listen to sermons over the section that you are going over, consulting lexicons to delve into the root meaning of the word, commentaries to see other people's epiphanies, etc., there is SO MUCH you will miss.

You are arrogant. You are saying "God talks to me....other people, not so much.



Please do not take my words out of context. I never suggested that anyone preach from a book other than the Bible. Why are you listening to preaching? That is NO DIFFERENT than reading a book. I thought "All you need is yourself and scripture?"



Again, then why listen to preaching? Why does the Bible command us to instruct others? Any argument you make for preaching or teaching, is an argument FOR writing and reading books...because they are the same thing.



Actually, the church is lukewarm because of anti-intellectuals such as yourself, who refuse to dig deep in the scriptures, and listen to instructions from others. "I don't need to listen to what that preacher said...I'll just read my Bible and interpret it my own way..."