The Book of Ephesians

[KenH]

Does the introduction, Ephesians 1:1-14, say Jesus has saved His people as the sermon claims? Nope

Yep. If Jesus does not save His people, then they can never, ever be saved.

 

[Van]

Yep. If Jesus does not save His people, then they can never, ever be saved.

Yes, Jesus is saving His people, one sinner at a time, thus He has not yet "saved" past tense all of His people.

 

[Van]

John 17:20 teaches people will come to believe through their (the disciples) testimony, including in the New Testament.

 

[KenH]

John 17:20 teaches people will come to believe through their (the disciples) testimony, including in the New Testament.

Faith is a gift from God, as is repentance, that He gives to His elect.

Ephesians 2:8
Acts of the Apostles 11:18

As Jonah said in Jonah 2:9 "Salvation is of the LORD."

 

[Van]

The introduction did a nice job with the meaning of "repentance" explaining the idea is not we stop sinning before salvation, or even after we continue to do what would be sinful except for the blood of Christ. Christ takes us as we are, worts and all. Thus repentance refers to a change in our mental characteristic, i.e. from going the way we think best, to going the way our Lord instructs. Putting our trust in Him, rather than ourselves. Anyone who says it is easy probably is not carrying their cross.

 

[KenH]

Yes, Jesus is saving His people, one sinner at a time, thus He has not yet "saved" past tense all of His people.

Once God has purposed to do something, it will happen. The elect's standing was settled way back in eternity, their state changes in time as they are regenerated while living in vile, sinful bodies and given spiritual life.

 

[Van]

Faith is a gift from God, as is repentance, that He gives to His elect.

Ephesians 2:8
Acts of the Apostles 11:18

As Jonah said in Jonah 2:9 "Salvation is of the LORD."

It boggles my mind, how some think not addressing some of scripture can be justified by misrepresenting other parts of scripture.

Folks, we are chosen through faith in the truth, thus we believed before we were individually chosen. John 17:20 teaches people will come to believe through their (the disciples) testimony, including in the New Testament.
Ephesians 2:8 teaches salvation, not faith, is the gift not of ourselves!
Acts of the Apostles 11:18 - God has allowed repentance.

 

[Van]

Once God has purposed to do something, it will happen. The elect's standing was settled way back in eternity, their state changes in time as they are regenerated while living in vile, sinful bodies and given spiritual life.

No matter how often you proclaim your beliefs, they are not substantiated by repetition, but only can be supported by scripture.
Your view of Ephesians 1:4 is precluded by 1 Peter 2:9-10.

 

[KenH]

Your view of Ephesians 1:4 is precluded by 1 Peter 2:9-10.

Your view of soteriology is precluded by the entire Bible.

 

[percho]

Romans 6:23 is explicit as a statement of fact, but how about as being anything anyone is offering, or told to offer, to receive as a gift, to have Eternal Life?

Accept Eternal life as a gift and be on your way?

How is their sin ever being dealt with?, in awareness or providing a cure for it?





Those two in that passage are said to be Twin Doctrines, as you know, logically sequencial, but otherwise combined together and affectively simultaneous, chronologically.

Because you can't be given faith and then given repentance of having that faith.

Repentance is granted as a gift, as in this next verse, and faith is assumed to accompany it, as implied from the teaching in your Hebrews 6:1 verse.

"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18;

Speaking of Grace in verse 7, Paul says the faith produced by His grace is the gift of God.

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.




The persuasion is that them whom God predestinated, them He also Effectually Calls, through the preaching of the Gospel, and can you hear it by His grace and show evidence that He has granted you repentance. There is no condition on the sinners part except answering whether they have been brought to the end of any dependence on themselves and has God saved them, yet?

Same concept?

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.


Not go out and get yourself reconciled but a command to live according to what has been done.

 

[percho]

Your view of soteriology is precluded by the entire Bible.

I agreed for I believe;


By being given the gift of the Holy Spirit saved, foreordained unto before the foundation of the world and fulfilled by the birth, death, and resurrection out of the dead of Jesus of Nazareth.

υἱοθεσίαν ἀπεκδεχόμενοι τὴν ἀπολύτρωσιν τοῦ σώματος ἡμῶν

Adoption awaiting, the redemption of the of body of us.

 

[Alan Gross]

that God hath given to us eternal life

I'm just saying that in spite of folks twisting Bible teachings into a knot and trying to say their Statement of Faith contains 'doctrine,' the world as we know it is not Christmas morning in a reestablished Garden of Eden, where everyone is innocent of sin, like Adam, and allowed to partake of the Tree of Life, anytime they wish.

And, if they don't they revert back to their Armenian claim of being Totally Depraved, now, as they were before Santa Claus came along with an offer of a gift for them and gave them every ability to open it and receive Eternal Life, if they wanted to.

Like, "tell me in a convincing way 'why you want to go to Hell and burn in Torment and suffering forever', OR open your present and go to Heaven.

I know God tells us that after we were convicted and granted repentance and faith the our sins nailed Jesus to the cross and caused His death when He gives us the New Birth is His free gift that we do not earn.

I'm just saying that 'you must be born again' through the preaching of the Gospel and 'God is offering you Eternal Life as a gift' is different than that and saying 'salvation is a gift' is not the power of God unto salvation'.

If that makes sense.

 

[Van]

Your view of soteriology is precluded by the entire Bible.

No, but yours is.
John 3:16
2 Thessalonians 2:13
1 Peter 2:9-10
Colossians 1:13
Matthew 23:13
James 2:5
1 John 2:2
Galatians 3:24

 

[Van]

I agreed for I believe;


By being given the gift of the Holy Spirit saved, foreordained unto before the foundation of the world and fulfilled by the birth, death, and resurrection out of the dead of Jesus of Nazareth.

υἱοθεσίαν ἀπεκδεχόμενοι τὴν ἀπολύτρωσιν τοῦ σώματος ἡμῶν

Adoption awaiting, the redemption of the of body of us.

Anyone who believes they were given the Holy Spirit but had not received mercy is unstudied. 1 Peter 2:9-10

 

[37818]

I'm just saying that 'you must be born again' through the preaching of the Gospel and 'God is offering you Eternal Life as a gift' is different than that and saying 'salvation is a gift' is not the power of God unto salvation'.

1 John 5:1, ". . . Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . ." 1 John 5:11, ". . . that God hath given to us eternal life, . . ." It comes down to what does it mean to believe Jesus to be the Christ.

 

[Alan Gross]

1 John 5:1, ". . . Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . ." 1 John 5:11, ". . . that God hath given to us eternal life, . . ." It comes down to what does it mean to believe Jesus to be the Christ.

Yes, at that stage in the Bible where John's emphasis is on impressing the saved with the assurance of Eternal Life they had believed in and were encouraged to know they had, because they do continue to believe in Jesus' Finished Work on their behalf, the law preached to a lost soul to bring them under conviction and the Remedy for that plight had already been addressed and well covered.

For, "believe' to be a process or way of salvation, as if, "believe is the power of God unto salvation", would have to include a saving understanding of what you say, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" and it's meaning that Jesus is presently the Lord of the Universe Who died for the sins of His people, buried their sins away, and is now risen with that Everlasting Life to give, having Obtained the power of Life over death.

So, anytime someone is exhorted to 'believe' we want to know that they are aware of their need of being the kind of sinners who's sins nailed Jesus to the cross and that He raised from the dead as proof His payment for their sins have been accepted in their place.

Just bashing easy believism on the head, whether it or you deserve it, or not.

Resorting to my training under the likes of John Gill, who does that all of the time bless his heart, among dozens of others.

Don't always mean to nit pick, it's just that easy believism as a thing is ta boo, if and when it actually is presenting itself.

 

[37818]

Don't always mean to nit pick, it's just that easy believism as a thing is ta boo, if and when it actually is presenting itself.

I hold to an easy believism.
Matthew 11:30, ". . . For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. . . ."
2 Corinthians 11:3, ". . . the simplicity that is in Christ. . . ."
John 3:16.

 

[Alan Gross]

I hold to an easy believism

Well, hello 37.

The bare naked persuasion to 'believe' and receive Eternal Life, may receive a superficial fleshly historical-type 'belief', in response, which would only be a mental consent to escape Hell and have a Home presumably in Heaven, with the danger of it being a deceived false confession, without God or Regeneration, which would not be good for them or anyone.

So, for the prospect of 'believe', 'decide', 'have ( non-Spiritual) 'faith', repeat after me, recite this prayer, except this gift, etc., alone, apart from the required repentance of sin and message of the gospel is what would be ta-boo, for its tendency toward abuse and misunderstanding on the part of a lost soul, as to whether they can justifiably sing, "It is Well with My Soul", or not.

I am all about suggesting the lost come to Jesus because His yoke is easy, if that was meant by Him to be addressed toward lost souls. Also, I am all over the simplicity that is in Christ and making an appeal to whosoever believes, knowing that all three would be "wrought in God", as John 3:21 says, and that if they come and believe it must be the result of being born again the way John 3 says also, over and over.

So, to not overemphasize the message to come and take or believe apart from first, the accompanying schoolmaster of the law convicting the sinner of their sin and driving the now thirsty sinner to the Fountain that doesn't run dry, and the Holy Spirit using that Message of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, to work the New Birth in their soul, is of the utmost importance.

That is where, "sign this Decision Card and you have a Ticket to Heaven and I am glad for you", falls short of the Glory of God, still, and the lost soul may be left lost, yet now deceived, which is paramount TO THEM that they not be.

So, I don't traffic in a main message as that of "just believe", "but you have to really believe", or "have true truth belief", etc.or any of its suggestions to do something in a way that is similar to, "signing a Decision Card's, or 'pray this prayer after me', can be empty of a Spiritual Awakening or Regeneration and yet have the individual still passed off as one among a number of 'souls won' or 'converted to Jesus'.

That is all not right and not how God saves souls, but is 'preached' worldwide.

You are not ta-boo.

As long as you haven't made a false profession of faith on us, you're good.

Just preach the Gospel along the lines of a, "repent and believe the Gospel" scheme. Yeah.

 

[taisto]

Folks, we are chosen through faith in the truth, thus we believed before we were individually chosen. John 17:20 teaches people will come to believe through their (the disciples) testimony, including in the New Testament.
Ephesians 2:8 teaches salvation, not faith, is the gift not of ourselves!
Acts of the Apostles 11:18 - God has allowed repentance.

The bolded statement is an oxymoronic statement.
It says that people express faith, which causes God to save and elect them.
But, God never ever states what you have stated.
John 17:20-21 is one sentence and says this:
“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

Note that Jesus already new who would believe in him.
Notice what John 17:22-24 say.
"The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world."

Clearly these whom Jesus prayed for were already chosen and known as elect before they ever expressed faith.

In Ephesians 2:8-9, both salvation and faith are a gracious gift given to those who were dead, but God chose to make alive.

Nowhere in the Bible does God express your statement "we are chosen through faith in the truth, thus we believed before we were individually chosen."

 

[Van]

The bolded statement is an oxymoronic statement.
It says that people express faith, which causes God to save and elect them.
But, God never ever states what you have stated.
John 17:20-21 is one sentence and says this:
“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

Note that Jesus already new who would believe in him.
Notice what John 17:22-24 say.
"The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world."

Clearly these whom Jesus prayed for were already chosen and known as elect before they ever expressed faith.

In Ephesians 2:8-9, both salvation and faith are a gracious gift given to those who were dead, but God chose to make alive.

Nowhere in the Bible does God express your statement "we are chosen through faith in the truth, thus we believed before we were individually chosen."

Here we seem to have a denial of what it means to achieve something through something else. Say enter a room through a door.
The door must exist before we entered. Full Stop

Say enter a town through a tunnel. The tunnel must exist before we entered the town.

So since we are saved by grace through faith, our faith must exist before we are saved. It is inescapable.

Next John 17:20-21 does not say Jesus knew the specific individuals that would come to believe. Nor would I need to know who will die today, to say we pray that those who will die today need to have been saved.

Who is Jesus talking about in John 17:22-24? His disciples! To claim He is talking about future believers is agenda driven nonsense.

Ephesians 2:8-9 does not say faith is a gift, the grammar precludes that mistranslation, the gift is salvation.

Yes, the Bible says we are chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13