The Book of Mormon

[BobRyan]

No problem. Post as if I am gone.:jesus:

 

[Joe]

It's edited now. Thanks

 

[SaggyWoman]

Invite them to a Bible study or to your church.

 

[BobRyan]

It's edited now. Thanks

Joe -- if I may...

You are saying that SDAs are attending your church on Sundays as well as their own church on Sabbath. I also do that from time to time.

You are friends with at least some of them - and I suppose you view some of their teachings as being correct. Case in point -- on this board I often post in agreement with Heavenly Pilgrim, Eliyahu, PostTrib, Brother Bob, Pastor Bob etc on a great many topics. So I don't see that as being too unnusual.

You also say that they are a cult - that is interesting since even Walter Martin in his book "Kingdom of the Cults" stated that there is no execuse for labeling them that way. (BTW I do not take that as a personnal attack on me or on SDAs - I believe you are speaking based on your view of their doctrines and how you see them to agree or differ with your interpretation of what the Bible says No harm no foul.)

That is not because Martin agrees with any of the distinctive dotrines of the SDA church - it is just that his view on orthodoxy regarding "Sola Scriptura" and the Trinity and salvation by grace through faith - also happens to be found in the SDA church.

When it comes to the Trinity - That is not the case with Mormons and or with JWs.

When it comes to saved by grace through faith - JW's are a bit weak.

When it comes to "sola scriptura" basis for doctrines AND testing prophets - Mormons flat deny it. Even the JW's do not go to that extreme!

SDAs look a lot like "Seventh-day Baptists" in many ways.

1. Believer's baptism
2. Sola Scriptura with both OT and NT as valid authorotative scripture
3. Trinity
4. Honoring the Ten Commandments
5. Arminian
6. Literal view of Genesis
7. Literal second coming
8. Literal millennium
9. Literal bodily resurrection of Christ and the saints

(Don't remember if SDB are post trib rapture - but SDAs are)

SDA's would join in unity with other Baptists that hold to the charismatic gifts -- holding that 1Cor 12 and 1Cor 14 are still valid texts for NT saints. But we would differ with them in that we do not think the modern practice of tongues nor even of prophecy is what the Bible is talking about in the NT.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Joe]

Hi Bob

Though there are similarities between the 7th Day Baptists and SDA's, there are also great divisions.
You probably know what I am going to say, her name is ELLEN WHITE.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Since I don't have the book of John handy...why don't you tell me?

You do have a Bible do you?

 

[David Michael Harris]

What kind of witness is that? Since they believe a false doctrine, we are exempt of sharing our faith with them?

I hear not to let them in our homes plenty, but I think the Scripture used to support that belief is taken out of context. JW's and Mormons need Christ just like any lost person. They are not off limits to us in regards to the Great Commission.

I think you need to get intune with the Bible a bit more and not modern thought brother.

I suppose your a great fan of Benny Hinn.

 

[SBCPreacher]

If you read the book of Mormon, it basically reads Christian. But, Mormon doctrine is not derived from the book of Mormon. It is from the Doctrines and Covenants and teachings of Mormon prophets, which they believe is just as important (and even more so when it disagrees with the Bible) as the Bible.

The young men on your doorstep won't tell you the controversial doctrines of the Mormon cult. They wait until you have been indoctrinated and then begin to tell you about it a little at a time.

They are dangerous! They know exactly what they believe and why they believe it. if only the average Baptist knew what they believed and why they believe it.

Hey, if only the average Baptist would be so committed to sharing the truth as the Mormons are about sharing lies.

 

[soninme]

they are a cult but still need jesus .

What do you think about this? They say this is the true church of God and there is no other church. I had three of them come to my house today. They believe JOSEPH SMITH was a prophet of God who restablish the church of God and that JOHN THE BAPTIST CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN and Baptisted him and then told him that he should baptist each other in a river. they believe the gospel as established by Jesus Christ was lost. This period is called the great Apostasy. This apostasy resulted in the formation of many churches with conflicting teachings and it says Joseph Smith was a prophet to retore the gospel and the priesthood to th earth. To me they are saying we are liers and are not of the church of God. What do you think?

the mormons and the jw's are cults and dangerous , but these ppl still need to hear the truth , as we all did .:godisgood:

 

[angelfire]

Shut the door on them, just like JW's do not let them over your door step.

It is tempting to try and discuss and convert them.

It is basically the devil knocking on your door.

Hi David.
NO Christian should EVER throw away an opportunity to witness. These people are just" dying" to hear the Gospel of the real Jesus. the best way to win a battle is to KNOW your enemy, learn your stuff AND theirs . This does NOT mean you believe what THEY believe. GIVE YOUR TESTIMONY and give Holy spirit something to work with ---thats our sole purpose in life. Dont you EVER slam the door in their faces! They are your neighbours and could be your best friends. Make some mistakes , BUT keep trying. Who knows ,you might start to like it? Your heart will race , your hands will sweat. your breath may become short and your mouth may get dry, They use the KJV so get one and MARK SOME APPROPRIATE PASSAGES WITH CROSS REFERENCES BUT dont you dare to slam the door in their faces without giving a testimony about the real Jesus FIRST if you are still too scared, surely there is SOMEONE in your Church you can refer them to ,without being TOTALLY obnoxious?
In Christ
angelfire

 

[David Michael Harris]

Hi David.
NO Christian should EVER throw away an opportunity to witness. These people are just" dying" to hear the Gospel of the real Jesus. the best way to win a battle is to KNOW your enemy, learn your stuff AND theirs . This does NOT mean you believe what THEY believe. GIVE YOUR TESTIMONY and give Holy spirit something to work with ---thats our sole purpose in life. Dont you EVER slam the door in their faces! They are your neighbours and could be your best friends. Make some mistakes , BUT keep trying. Who knows ,you might start to like it? Your heart will race , your hands will sweat. your breath may become short and your mouth may get dry, They use the KJV so get one and MARK SOME APPROPRIATE PASSAGES WITH CROSS REFERENCES BUT dont you dare to slam the door in their faces without giving a testimony about the real Jesus FIRST if you are still too scared, surely there is SOMEONE in your Church you can refer them to ,without being TOTALLY obnoxious?
In Christ
angelfire

What on earth is obnoxious with having nothing to do with evil.

Are we not told to abstain from evil.

What is more evil than supressing the Truth.

Are we not told to be as lambs and yet cunning.

Are we not told about people who do not abide in the Truth.

Are we not told that lies would even try to deceive the Elect if possible.

Do we not see in the book of Revelation people being lost with no sympathy from the LORD because they refused to repent.

Depart from me for I never knew you. Lord Lord, did we not....

If you feel called to this work then do it, me I will just keep clear.

There is a deluded spirit at work in today's church, that we must cast our pearls before swine. The Love of God has become the love of hippies, debauched.

We offer the Gospel without the fear and Holiness of a God of Fire.

 

[annsni]

Wow. I guess there are exceptions to the DIRECT command of Jesus:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

We ALL were once dead in sin. We all were in need of a Savior. At some point in each of our lives, someone came and shared the Gospel with us. Whatever beliefs we had before, someone came and showed the truth to us. I know that there are many I share my faith with - some respond, some don't. That's OK. It's not up to me to make people believe but it's up to God. However, we are to preach the Gospel to all of creation.

Mark 13:10 - And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.
Mark 16:15 - He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
Luke 24:47 - and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations,

All - there are no conditions on that 'all'

I thank God when I was in high school, that I didn't avoid the discussions I had with a young girl who was being taught by Jehovah's Witnesses. She called me 4 years after high school telling me that by my witness and my testimony to her, she eventually turned from the JW, was saved, baptized, met a wonderful godly man and was married. He became a pastor. If I had followed your thinking, this wonderful woman of God might still be locked in a lie.

 

[dan e.]

I think you need to get intune with the Bible a bit more and not modern thought brother.

I suppose your a great fan of Benny Hinn.

Wow......hmmmmm......have you reread your posts?????

Hmmmmm......God protect those in search of truth from you.

 

[dan e.]

Shut the door on them, just like JW's do not let them over your door step.

It is tempting to try and discuss and convert them.

It is basically the devil knocking on your door.

I would be interested in hearing a Scriptural defense of your thoughts. More specifically:

1) That taking an opportunity to tell them about your faith in Jesus is wrong

2) How the people at your door is "basically the devil"

3) How shutting your door on them in any way reflects Jesus


Any kind of difficulty in demonstrating a Scriptural defense is definitely understood....since there really is none.

 

[dan e.]

Make them a cup of tea why dont you and share in their evil work.

Oh yeah, this would be interesting to know too....how is it that showing grace and hospitality to them shares "in their evil work"?

What would it be like if God had the same attitude as you?

 

[dan e.]

I just been reading up on this...

Irenaeus states, 'Such was the horror which the Apostles and their disciples had against holding even a verbal communication with any corrupters of the truth'

That's the problem with todays Church it just does not listen to the Bible

Wow.....I didn't realize that Irenaeus wrote in the Bible. Which book was that?

 

[dan e.]

What on earth is obnoxious with having nothing to do with evil.

Are we not told to abstain from evil.

What is more evil than supressing the Truth.

Are we not told to be as lambs and yet cunning.

Are we not told about people who do not abide in the Truth.

Are we not told that lies would even try to deceive the Elect if possible.

Do we not see in the book of Revelation people being lost with no sympathy from the LORD because they refused to repent.

Depart from me for I never knew you. Lord Lord, did we not....

If you feel called to this work then do it, me I will just keep clear.

There is a deluded spirit at work in today's church, that we must cast our pearls before swine. The Love of God has become the love of hippies, debauched.

We offer the Gospel without the fear and Holiness of a God of Fire.

In your entire rant there is no offering of anything....only a slamming of the door!

GEEZE!!

 

[annsni]

What on earth is obnoxious with having nothing to do with evil.

Nothing unless you are disobeying Jesus' direct command to spread the Gospel.

Are we not told to abstain from evil.

Yes. But where is preaching the Gospel evil?

What is more evil than supressing the Truth.

Exactly. When you suppress the truth from those who need to hear it, it is very evil.

Are we not told to be as lambs and yet cunning.

Absolutely. We need to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

Are we not told about people who do not abide in the Truth.

Yes, we are.

Are we not told that lies would even try to deceive the Elect if possible.

Absolutely. We need to be firmly rooted in the Word and we will be like the trees planted by the water - not able to be moved.

Do we not see in the book of Revelation people being lost with no sympathy from the LORD because they refused to repent.

Absolutely. There will be people lost. But it's our job to make sure that they've heard the Gospel.

Depart from me for I never knew you. Lord Lord, did we not....

And??

If you feel called to this work then do it, me I will just keep clear.

That's sad. You're holding the truth from them. I wonder what Jesus will say about that. I'm thinking of the parable of the talents.....

There is a deluded spirit at work in today's church, that we must cast our pearls before swine. The Love of God has become the love of hippies, debauched.

No - there is the spirit of evangelism. Atleast in the churches I know of. Who decides that someone is not worthy of salvation? YOU?

We offer the Gospel without the fear and Holiness of a God of Fire.

It sounds like you don't offer the Gospel to anyone unless they fit your definition of who's "worthy".

Scripture is clear in this. I'm sorry you are not seeing it.

 

[Jesus Freak]

What about Seventh-Day Adventists?

Well of course "WE" all agree "THEY" are wrong.

But I suspect you want actual facts to go along with that.

1. The book of Mormon does not say what they are telling you. They have other books that they that stuff.

2. Samuel Spalding is the original author of the BOM before Joseph Smith got ahold of it - and so the BOM does not actually have the foundational kook teachings of the LDS in it.

3. Mormons do not believe in the "sola scriptura" idea of testing prophets -- they believe you should "go with what feels good" instead. By disconnecting from scripture accountability they create a Vacuum not unlike the RCC for then going on to "make stuff up".

in Christ,

Bob

I'm curious if, as a Seventh- Day Adventist, "We" would all agree on the beliefs of your church? Do you believe that " Sunday-keeping " will be the mark of the beast in the future? Do you believe in the " shut door " doctrine? Do you believe that Ellen G. White was a " prophet "? Do you believe that she had more than 3,000 "inspired counsels from the Lord" between 1844 and 1868? What about "soul sleep" and "Investigative Judgment"?
SDA Church Ministry magazine of October 1981 -" We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White's writings to be of equal quality." This statement has never been retracted!
Orthodox or Cult?

 

[BobRyan]

We believe that the gift of prophecy is "from God" not from "lesser gods".

We believe as God said that this gift was for the NT church (1Cor 12 and 1Cor 14 "desire earnestly spiritual gifts especially that you may prophesy".)

We believe that the gift is defined exactly as God defined it in Numbers 12 "IF there is a prophet among you I WILL make myself known to them in a dream or a vision".

We do NOT believe that the NT prophets like Anna, Philips 4 daughters, Agabus and those in Corinth (1 Cor 14) were all "writing scripture" just because they were given the gift of prophecy. RATHER God used some to write scripture and some prophets to minister just to the saints of their day. Scripture ceased to be written around the close of the first century A.D. ALL doctrine is to be tested against scripture - for on scripture alone it stands or falls.

But in all cases of inspiration and the gift of prophecy the source is GOD not "God vs some lesser non-inspired god". The only reason prophecy has any value - any authority at all - is that God is the source. Period.

WE believe EXACTLY what Paul stated in 1Thess 4 regarding "those who have fallen asleep" calling them "the DEAD in Christ".

we believe in doctrine 100% tested "sola scriptura".

We believe the 10 commandments are valid.

We believe that breaking any one of the 10 commandments is just as wrong as breaking any OTHER of the 10 commandments.

We AGREE with D.L. Moody that the Sabbath commandment remains.

in Christ,

Bob