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The Bride of Christ is NOT the Church!
- Thread starter Felipe Rios
- Start date
Felipe Rios
Member
So what city was Abraham looking for as stated in Hebrews 11:10?
I do not believe this was referring to a literal city but a dwelling with God Himself. Perhaps you could say a return to Eden (which is something expressed throughout ANE thought).
Not so.
The church will be as gold. The Apostles and the patriarchs were not literal foundations under the city, but the patriarchs were the base of Israel and the apostles of the church.
Felipe Rios
Member
So what city was Abraham looking for in Hebrews 11:10?
I would say, Sion, the city of God the church.
What box is that. I will stay within the boundaries of scripture. If that is your box then no thank you I will remain right here.
People will stand on their clear understanding of scripture. If you want to show up here and create a discussion with others over doctrine then good. If you want to do that by establishing a pejorative relationship then you will find great difficulty here. It is not nice nor is it helpful to assume people only believe because of tradition. People on this board by and large study the word for themselves.
Let me guess, although you have posted in the Baptist only section I am willing to guess you are a non-denom charismatic individual. I say this because that is who is willing to buy into such absurd things like this. I don't know maybe you recently started attending a Baptist church but that has got to be your history. I was going to address the rest point y point but it is so convoluted that it is to difficult. So here is what scripture actually says on this matter:
Simply saying "with Jesus all things are possible" is not evidence of your claim. That passage of scripture cannot be applied to just anything you want in order to justify that which is clearly absurd. The best I can say for such an attempt is that it is sophomoric at best, and that is being extra kind.
Revelation 19:6-8 says that the bride has clothed herself with fine linen which is the righteous deeds of the saints. Now leaving out the "with Jesus all things are possible" fiasco can you explain how an inanimate object like a city can clothe itself?
The word city can refer to the ground and the buildings in it. It can also refer to the people in it. Be careful of your application and your discovery of the context of the passages you employ. What you need to do is study Matthew 22:1-14; Luke 14:16-24; Matthew 25:1-13.
Well really you need to study how to study the Bible. A good beginner book is my Kaye Arthur on Inductive Bible Study.
Felipe Rios
Member
I can debate with you over this topic but I think it might be a waste of time.
But I will be clear to you that I'm not a charismatic and never will be. As a matter of fact, I'm as Baptist as it can get. I attend a very conservative Baptist church and I have been a Baptist since I was saved over 10 years ago.
Felipe Rios
Member
So how do you explain all the measures and the details about this city? It seems pretty literal to me.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Felipe Rios
Member
i change my mind. I will respond soon.
Felipe Rios
Member
22Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30because we are members of His body. 31For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. 32This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.
The emphasis in on husbands loving their wives as their own bodies, JUST LIKE Christ loves His body the church. And wives subjecting to their husbands JUST LIKE the church (the body) submits to Christ.
Felipe Rios
Member
You are correct about the “with Jesus all things are possible” argument. I shouldn’t have said that because that is not a valid argument.
Revelation 19:6-8 says that the bride has clothed herself with the righteousness of the saints. The point here is that God has adorn/clothed this city with saints. The saints and their righteousness will adorn the bride. Yes, we adorn the bride! As a matter of fact, this is not foreign to scripture. Listen to what Isaiah 49:14-18 says, “14But Zion said, “The LORD has forsaken me, And the Lord has forgotten me.”15“Can a woman forget her nursing child And have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, but I will not forget you.16“Behold, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; Your walls are continually before Me.17“Your builders hurry; Your destroyers and devastators Will depart from you.18“Lift up your eyes and look around; All of them gather together, they come to you. As I live,” declares the LORD, “You will surely put on all of them as jewels and bind them on as a bride.”.
You are correct when you say that the word “city” can apply to the people alone or even to the people AND the city. But it can also apply the city alone! The context will determine that.
I have already explained that the parable of the wedding banquet does not say that the bride is the church. God’s people are said to be the GUESTS in verse 11 (also in Luke 14:16), not the bride!
When it comes to the parable of the virgins in Matthew 25, notice how these virgins are INVITED to the wedding feast. The virgins “went in with him to the wedding feast.” This implies that they are GUESTS. These were NOT called to be married to the Bridegroom but they were invited as guests to the wedding of the Bridegroom. Nowhere in the parable does it say that they are invited to marry the Bridegroom.
The heavenly city comes down and hovers over Mount Zion, right? So, it is above the redeemed earth dwellers. (The nations rewarded by Christ in Matt 25.) Perhaps some were transported, by the same angels that gathered up the tribulation saints (Matt 24), to the wedding feast in the city? Wouldn't they be the guests? Or where some of the angels? I'm not sure. This is sheer speculation!
Felipe Rios
Member
If I believed the Church was the Bride I would speculate the same. Many of mine brethren speculate the same. Good thoughts!
There is ONLY one Church though, and so Jesus would be wed to that church, for Paul himself compared His wedding to the church as husband and wife to each other!
New heavens and New earth at that time, and forever just God and His people within new Jerusalem....
Really? I pastored a church in San Diego for 27 years and now serve in a church in Texas. Which one of them is the ONLY church?
Felipe Rios
Member
I agree with you on that one.