The CALL, Is there One Call to All or not

Wow, I appreciate the interaction on here and the somewhat civillty of interactions. I am going to try to deal with each as I can >>>Edited<<<, and MAYBE answer to some degree or other if there is One actually calling or Two seperate Callings.

JNE1600: Thank you for your patience here.

No problem here, as most everyone (Non-Cal that is) I know on the BB would agree with you. But The difference is how those who were given were first identified which gives rise to the Call(s). Which I'm sure is why you then gave me these to ponder:

Again, I have no problem with these verses as Jesus knows them that will respond, but this does not require to seperate types of Calling. One being effectual and only for the sheep, and another call that does nothing but is still given by God wherein no one does anything with.

You have not even shown proof so far with regard to types of Calling. You have only showed there ARE those who will respond but not that it necessitates to seperate and distinct calls. Trust me - I'm with you so far, maybe not in your particular view per-say, but the truth these verses entail.
Now with respect to your next listings:

I will start here with something off of verse 26 which I highlighted. Note this phrase or these two words are not really there but conveying intent of idea. Research the Greek or other translations like NASV says

HTML:

[B]1 Cor 1:26[/B] For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

or :

The context is actaully about (at least I beleive it is) those who have believed, via His calling. We see this in context shows WHY there is not boasting or glorying before God as there is nothing from MANS perspective to give glory to himself. IT is what the world would consider foolishness that there is no disquishable greatness to any of these that would earn such a great prize or gift. This is why in verse 27 it states God has chosen - not in relation the elect but in relation to God not using mans system to determine worth. Notice also that Paul speaks of those "things", we are not things so it in these verses are not refering to man but that system OF man that determins ones worthiness. We see in verse 29 that Paul bring it back to people and that since what we have in not based on any system proving ourselves worthy, we loose anything by which we may glory of ourselves. Verse 30 states "We are in Christ, due to Him..." Keep it in context, as in God is the one who called us based on nothing we have done, or are. But before we leave off here please go up a few verses from 27 where you began:

See, here is the premise of the suceeding verses of which you spoke regarding the call. The call was foolishness to the world but salvation to them "THAT BELEIVED". They are elect because they believed, but God who they would be, for He foreknew THAT THEY WERE and decreed them to be saved, thus it is the same calling to all but only those who WILL believe are saved and thus is the truest measure of mans willful rebellion and thus exact nature of Gods just punishment.

WIth regard to 1 Cor 1 24 . This is speaking (in context) as an identifier of those who at present had believed based on Gods calling (as in accordance with verse 21) and not a designator of a group. Thus is it either ONE calling toward all or two seperate types of calling (one effectaul the other feeble OR having no intent to convert)

Your second posting you Highlighted for me I have already dealt with above being that it is not actually there and more specifically deals with the intent of Paul to show these people had no earthly reason to claim such a heavenly gift.

 

I would like to jump in here as well since it is refering to the OP.
Matt 22:14 is refering to the drawing and it pretains to the OP of Calling. Many BE CALLED but few are Chosen.

Second: Let us let scripture show who those are that are raised. Those who were chosen or who where chosen based on their believing.

What is the nothing that Christ shall not loose. It those by which the very will of the Father is repeated with a qualifier of those who will be raised up and not lost.
But you will notice as is in line with the OP They believe because a call but what consistantly distinquishes them is not the pre-election, but what the do - believe.

 

That Pete is the purpose of this thread. The typical Calvinist holds there are two calls. I state there is only one call and that call is effectual to any who will beleive.
Effectual defines the act after the fact thus denoting a completed work. The entire Call in effectual to any who will believe, beginning from the call but awaiting for the one thing God requires - belief He will. This is why being the elect isn't enough, nor is being The Called or Chosen, but belief that seperates Children of God and Children of condemnation.

 

Whatever, you stated earlier:

Yes, I hear that but that is about all I hear. Faith cometh by hearing brother, *shrug* You have not shown otherwise. When a scripture is given that is not in line with your thougths. Don't throw out others first, Deal with what is there. Then add your verses and let them see what you have to say.

 

Just re-posting this in case it got lost. Man you guys are fast. :godisgood:

However, I will try to address as much as possible but I am backed up a bit in some things which is why I haven't responded till now. AND my wife is getting a little irritated with me on the computer so much lately (studies, e-mail, blogging) so I promised to degress somewhat. I have to head out to preach this morning so I wll addess only what I remember off the top of head. JNE1600 I will get back with you since it was you and I that first began this conversation, please be patient with me


Ye please look CLOSELY at the first AND at the next verse Pinoy:

Quote:
John 1:12- " But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
Now, watch the next verse:John 1:13 - "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the


NOTE: To those who RECEIVED Him, it was to THEM He GAVE the right to be called the Sons of God
The next first states NOT that God MADE (irresistable call) them recieve but that any who DID RECEIVE but the next verse shows this salvation is not due to mans wanting OUTSIDE of God as I have stated many time before. It is the next verse that clarifies this as salvation is not due to a blood line (by blood) any good a man can do (by the will of flesh) nor is it by mans desire (by the will of man) OUTSIDE of God.

There is none on here that I know of who deny a person CAN NOT come to Christ unless God initiate the relationship.

However the reason for this OP: Is there one calling to the few, or is the calling to all - with regard to the empowering for that salvation we hold most dear.

Man if left to himself will not seek God, therefore it is God who must initiate. That is what John 1:12-13 is about in context of the verses 1-18. Moses brought the law but Jesus brought Grace and truth. He is the light that LIGHTETH every man that cometh into the world - guess which translation

And as BLAMMO stated scripture; Faith COMES by hearing and hearing BY the Word of God. Not in any phrasology: Faith comes only to the elect by hearing and hearing by the Word of God..

REFORMEDBEILVER Stated:

Quote:
Those who reject His call are damned as a result.

Uh, not accoding to your theology~ They were damned BEFORE they heard the Call remember: God knew before creation that man would fall and it was from THERE (mans decision for damnation) that God decreed the Elect from those IN damnation already.

 

James, It looks like I can finally address your posting raying: :smilewinkgrin:

First off James, who said these verses refer to service in the specific nature it was given? Cotext shows what this is refering to but has a buttress of that which preceeds this parable, That being another parable of like manner concerning salvation which BTW this new parable is still addressing that same group speaking with Jesus regarding the same context again. The calling and salvation. Now within this parable we do see service and most specifically that of the Jewish people doing the preaching/calling and are called servents in the first. However that is not the main thrust of the parable but potion within it.

1. Which group James, The many called or the few chosen?

2. According to scripture, Yes. They were clothed in the garments of a wedding feast, and those not in correct apparel given by the Host were excluded in the fellowship.

One who did not have what was required to be in attmitance. It had nothing to do with whether he was invited.
3.

Since there was already those who had rejected the invitation James, it necessitates it was not given to all, and still of the many only few came.
PLEASE NOTE HOWEVER: The King did not send out His servents to an already pre-determind list like the original guests but sent them to bid ANY WHO WOULD COME.

It is not about service. The only service with it context is about the Jewish preachers/prophets calling to the Jewish nation. And then the Jewish Apostles calling to any who will come.

No again, and the person cast out - was not cast out for lack of service since none there is being shown to be serving but coming to this feast. The person thrown out was not in correct apparel given by the Host when the Host come unto His own, and therefore was excluded from the fellowship as not one of His. He didn't have what he needed in order to partake of the grace of the Host.

 

James if you must then go back and look. I never stated this:

and even had to correct those who that that was what I was advocating. Actually I think it was you I made the correction too. Either way it matters not...

James as I just stated in an earlier post to you, I have no problems with Logic being applied by anyone as long as scripture is the guide for the logical course we take. And I agree that though we hold to the same truths it is the mechanics of those truths by which we differ in view.

I love a good ribbing (especially with B-B-Q sause - southern style) but lets keep it to accuctual things stated or intended. By the way I like my ribs spicy HOT~!! :laugh:

 

The whole faith cometh by hearing.. was more toward follow through with your explaination and scritpture otherwise how can my faith or anyone elses be challenged and grow with substance for me to chew on, and the same is vise versa.

We differ in the two basic points for here. The call being one effectual call to those who WILL believe. And that brings up my second point but not so much in my OP, of If God elects then why scriptual mandate that to be saved you must believe. Could it possible be because this is the requirement God decreed as a means for salvation. Now the question is Why, if He determines who He will MAKE believe and who He will leave in darkness.

I just think these a pertinent questions with regard to the call. You don't have to answer them all at once though otherwise you'll be here all day like I was all night catching up on posts. :BangHead: