The CALL, Is there One Call to All or not

[Blammo]

The elect are chosen before the foundation of the world. There are elect who are not yet born. God is patient, waiting until the last of the elect are born, hear the Gospel and respond. He was not necessarily waiting on those during Peter's day ( although He was also waiting on them too ) but waiting on the last of His sheep to be brought into this world and hear His voice. I pray the last one has been born already. By the way.... if He is waiting on those who by their free will shall respond... what about all the babies born between the time the free willers grow to an age of accountability and then by their free will respond? Don't those babies get a chance to grow up and choose? Can He ever come back in that case? When the last of the elect are born and are regenerated, He will come back.

Not willing that sheep not yet born should perish but come to repentance?
Not willing that babies should perish, but come to repentance?

All those aborted babies are going to hell?

 

[Blammo]

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Those drawn, are raised at the last day. What does that tell you? There is no talk of the drawn rejecting Christ in the context is there? All of those given are drawn, taught, and come to Christ.
And Matt 22:14 says nothing about being drawn by the Father.

I believe the verse says that those who come to Him He will raise at the last day. They can't come to Him unless the Father draw them, but if they do come to Him He will raise them up at the last day.

 

[jne1611]

I believe the verse says that those who come to Him He will raise at the last day. They can't come to Him unless the Father draw them, but if they do come to Him He will raise them up at the last day.

There is no if in the text at all. They will come to him, if you believe the Scripture. For I have given you the text itself.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Not willing that sheep not yet born should perish but come to repentance?
Not willing that babies should perish, but come to repentance?

All those aborted babies are going to hell?

I never said any babies are going to hell.... thats something bro bob dreamed up. What do you not understand about what I responded with Blammo? Since Peter wrote his letters, to the elect or chosen, has there been any elect born in the time between his writing the letters and now Blammo? It makes no difference how you view election, whether you view it as synergistic or monergestic, based upon God's foreknowledge or not, God is longsuffering.... Jesus will not return untill the last of His elect are born and hear the Gospel.

 

[Brother Bob]

Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

He that hath an ear (of faith) let him hear. All come down to believeing as always from beginning of the Bible to the end.

 

[Brother Bob]

I never said any babies are going to hell.... thats something bro bob dreamed up. What do you not understand about what I responded with Blammo? Since Peter wrote his letters, to the elect or chosen, has there been any elect born in the time between his writing the letters and now Blammo? It makes no difference how you view election, whether you view it as synergistic or monergestic, based upon God's foreknowledge or not, God is longsuffering.... Jesus will not return untill the last of His elect are born and hear the Gospel.

You brought up about little babies and being lost, not me. I just told you we believe they must come to an age of accountablilty before they are going to Hell but you are the one who suggested they would be lost.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Every last one of them will be believers and have the faith.

 

[Blammo]

There is no if in the text at all. They will come to him, if you believe the Scripture. For I have given you the text itself.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[l_PETE_l]

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Dead men do not hear.

 

[Brother Bob]

Dead men do not hear.

They are dead in a sense they are separated from God. If sinners could not hear the Call then the Calvinist need to quit saying "except my Father draw him".

 

[reformedbeliever]

You brought up about little babies and being lost, not me. I just told you we believe they must come to an age of accountablilty before they are going to Hell but you are the one who suggested they would be lost.



Every last one of them will be believers and have the faith.

You sir are being dishonest again and misrepresenting me. Why do you have to resort to dishonesty and misrepresentation? I quit responding to you once before and it seems I'll have to do that again until you become honest and stop with the slander. Give it a break bro bob.

 

[Blammo]

I never said any babies are going to hell.... thats something bro bob dreamed up. What do you not understand about what I responded with Blammo? Since Peter wrote his letters, to the elect or chosen, has there been any elect born in the time between his writing the letters and now Blammo? It makes no difference how you view election, whether you view it as synergistic or monergestic, based upon God's foreknowledge or not, God is longsuffering.... Jesus will not return untill the last of His elect are born and hear the Gospel.

Well some calvinists believe babies go to hell, unless they are elect.

You have, however, given me a good answer to my question.

 

[Blammo]

Dead men do not hear.

Don't be silly, I heard it.

 

[Brother Bob]

if He is waiting on those who by their free will shall respond... what about all the babies born between the time the free willers grow to an age of accountability and then by their free will respond? Don't those babies get a chance to grow up and choose?


You sir are being dishonest again and misrepresenting me. Why do you have to resort to dishonesty and misrepresentation? I quit responding to you once before and it seems I'll have to do that again until you become honest and stop with the slander. Give it a break bro bob.

Well, I certainly don't want to be dishonest but this is what you quoted and if it is not suggesting that according to our belief babies are lost then I don't know what it is. Also, Calvinisn does say that babies will be in hell.

But, if I misquoted you for this I apoligize.

 

[l_PETE_l]

They are dead in a sense they are separated from God. If sinners could not hear the Call then the Calvinist need to quit saying "except my Father draw him".

that depends on the meaning of "draw him"

 

[reformedbeliever]

Well some calvinists believe babies go to hell, unless they are elect.

You have, however, given me a good answer to my question.

Blammo, we have been on this question about 2 Peter 3:9 once before, and I responded the same way. I thought you understood it then.... but if your memory is like mine.... I understand. :laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
They are dead in a sense they are separated from God. If sinners could not hear the Call then the Calvinist need to quit saying "except my Father draw him".

that depends on the meaning of "draw him"

I thought this is what the Calvinist advocated but I could be wrong.

Romans, chapter 10

"14": How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

 

[Blammo]

Blammo, we have been on this question about 2 Peter 3:9 once before, and I responded the same way. I thought you understood it then.... but if your memory is like mine.... I understand. :laugh:

My memory must be like yours. I don't recall. I thought I had a good new question there. :laugh:

I'll get it one of these days, be patient with me. :laugh:

 

[pinoybaptist]

Don't be silly, I heard it.

Then you were no longer dead at that point. You did not come to life because you heard it. The Spirit brought you to life so you can hear the call to eternal life.

2 Timothy 1:9-10 - " Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:"

You heard it, and responded, because your stopped ears have already been unstopped when you were born again because it was God's will for you to be born again, and not because you heard the gospel.
As a result, you received Christ, in the same manner that those living during Christ's time on earth received Him.

John 1:12- " But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

Now, watch the next verse:

John 1:13 - "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Ain't about what you did, 'sall about what God did.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Between the long introduction, and the longer replies of some, and the bold letters and changed font colors and all that, I don't know which directions this discussion have already gone, but, allow me to add my own take on the call.

There is only one irresistible call, and that call is the effectual call to Christ, in that every man God draws to Christ will at some point in that man's (or woman's) life be effectual to him, and irresistible in that whether he has heard of Christ or not, the Spirit will bear witness to him of Christ and the fact that there is but One God, and that One God alone is able to save him, not his theology, not his creed, not his priest, not his imam, not whoever is the man or teaching he follows. I believe you will find men and women of this sort in every situation on earth.

These men and women have been indwelt by the Spirit because they are born from above.

Whether they are filled with the Spirit is another thing.

And therein comes the "other" calls, on which the Arminians pounce when they argue that one can resist the Holy Spirit, and in which they are also correct, but only because they confuse the effectual and irresistible call to Christ as Savior, to the call to service and dedication which is all dependent on the infilling (not the indwelling) of the Spirit.

Now, excuse me, friends and foes, while I head to the dugout. :wavey: :tonofbricks:

 

[Brother Bob]

You heard it, and responded, because your stopped ears have already been unstopped when you were born again because it was God's will for you to be born again, and not because you heard the gospel.
As a result, you received Christ, in the same manner that those living during Christ's time on earth received Him.

"even to them that believe on his name:"

so, you are "born again" and then you are saved? Really hard to get away from "believing" isn't it?

There is only one irresistible call, and that call is the effectual call to Christ,

Thought the dead couldn't "hear"?

And therein comes the "other" calls, on which the Arminians pounce when they argue that one can resist the Holy Spirit, and in which they are also correct, but only because they confuse the effectual and irresistible call to Christ as Savior, to the call to service and dedication which is all dependent on the infilling (not the indwelling) of the Spirit.
And therein comes the "other" calls

God just calling all over the place isn't He? You would think God would feel a little funny to just calling and calling after he made them so there could be no response. I figure God is much smarter than that.

Honesty is the best policy, and for God to make a call that no one can respond is "far out".